Thread: Optimal Ski Rig @ $2.50 / gal

Let's say gas prices go back up and stay there. What then becomes the optimal ski rig to chase storms and rack up mileage back and forth to the mountains (for those who live more than 14 miles from the goods)? I hate to spend more money on gas than lift tickets.

Criteria: AWD or better, comfy cruising at 75mph, >30mpg hwy. Can put a family of four (two adults, two kiids) in with enough room for bags in the back and can mount a box on top.

Subie Outback seems to be the standard bearer, but mileage is 21/28 City/Hwy on the 4cyl and I'd bet actual mileage loaded and at speed is much closer to 21. Don't even mention the Forrester . . . can't go there.

So what's the best ski rig available now or very soon?

Your "Criteria" does not exist. There is not way that a car is going to get 30 mpg in the mountains with a family of four sitting in it - PLUS a box on top. Just no way.

Subies are the best - buy one.

Originally Posted by Shin-to-Win

Criteria: AWD or better,

Buy a pair of easy on chains for a 2WD vehicle. 5 minutes, saves you several $k on purchase price, and $k on gas.

Originally Posted by cj001f

Buy a pair of easy on chains.

5 minutes, saves you several $k on purchase price, and $k on gas.

Not sure what "easy on" chains are but with all chains I know of you can't go over 35 mph. Get the AWD.

Originally Posted by Below Zero

Not sure what "easy on" chains are but with all chains I know of you can't go over 35 mph. Get the AWD.

What Conditions require chains for traction(practical, not legal requirement) but allow you to go over 35mph? NONE! Not one fucking one! Unless you've figured out a way to make an AWD car stop quicker than a 2WD car.

My '97 Legacy got 29mpg going from Port Townsend to La Push with four people, gear, and four surfboards on top. Not super high altitude driving, but it was through the Olympic mountains. I've been averaging about 24-25 so far this winter (bars, recent box, car full of shit, mountain driving, etc.)

Chains suck.

Keep your eyes peeled for the new Honda and Toyota hybrid SUV's that are just around the corner. The Jeep Liberty (edit: is this the same as a Ford Escape?) hybrid apparently gets around 30mpg. However, keep in mind your purchase price for those ($25k+) will be a lot more than a used Suby. The difference buys a lot of gas.

Comfy cruising at 75 mph + lots of space -> big car with engine = bad mileage

new ford escape hybrid perhaps?

Originally Posted by cj001f

What Conditions require chains for traction(practical, not legal requirement) but allow you to go over 35mph? NONE! Not one fucking one! Unless you've figured out a way to make an AWD car stop quicker than a 2WD car.

Lots of times in Cali the CHP makes you put on chains, but the road is not that bad. I don't understand this, since all is does is f-up the road.

Chais pretty much suck. 4WD is sooooo much better.

Originally Posted by cj001f

What Conditions require chains for traction(practical, not legal requirement) but allow you to go over 35mph? NONE! Not one fucking one! Unless you've figured out a way to make an AWD car stop quicker than a 2WD car.

HUH? There are not too many situations where an AWD vehicle with good snow tires needs chains anyway. I don't need to tell you this, but an AWD vehicle has better control which allows you to go faster in rougher conditions. I'm not saying it will stop faster. There are plenty of times I am going like 50 mph while I see other cars (some with chains) going like 20 mph up I70 in rough conditions. It makes a difference - AWD with good snow tires is a much better solution.

Any difference between a 97/98 Subie and the newer ones (2002ish)? Don't want the six, 2.5L is fine.

VW passat TDi AWD real world 50mpg with skis at 75mph......can easily better that but not in the NA market.....30mpg subie dosen't sell many cars in Europe.....at $6 a gallon wonder why?

To put it in perspective

NA Ford Econoline Van <10mpg

Renault Traffic Van >40mpg

Ok the Renault traffic runs out of guts at 85mph and the econoline will top 110mph easy...but whats the point

Originally Posted by Below Zero

HUH? There are not too many situations where an AWD vehicle with good snow tires needs chains anyway. I don't need to tell you this, but an AWD vehicle has better control which allows you to go faster in rougher conditions. I'm not saying it will stop faster. There are plenty of times I am going like 50 mph while I see other cars (some with chains) going like 20 mph up I70 in rough conditions. It makes a difference - AWD with good snow tires is a much better solution.

I was comparing 2WD w/Chains vs. AWD. And stopping is part of vehicle control - how else do you avoid the retard in the Suburban who just spun in front of you

I don't like chains - they suck to put on. But if you are looking to save money - on initial purchase price (several thousand minimum), gas(4-5mpg minimum), and maintenance(at least several hundred a year minimum), a 2WD vehicle is the way to go.

$180 Suby GL.

You know you want it!

FORESTER There I said it. Actually been talking lately of the fuel consumption at real highway speed. Volvo's do a lot better I think and I'm told they're all going AWD next year. Didn't know you could get an AWD Jetta let alone a TDI. Maybe not in Canada as yet but that would be hard to beat.

Originally Posted by L7

Didn't know you could get an AWD Jetta let alone a TDI. Maybe not in Canada as yet but that would be hard to beat.

The older VW TDI's (and most diesels) don't start well in the cold. As in, may not start at all. Cold being <-20C. Add a block heater or something else to keep it warm if it's not going to be in a heated garage.

if you're serious about a Suby check out the forums at www.ultimatesubaru.net. Shit-ton of info there on years/models/differences/whatever.

YMMV, but it sounds like a lot of the phase I 2.5 engines (all outbacks and legacy GT's from 96-99) are prone to catastrophic and pricey head gasket explosions around 100k+- and often repeat said disaster every few 10k afterwards. Beware of any used cars that say "recently had all seals re-done blah blah" Look for a manual tranny Legacy from 91-99 (1st gens are favorites among the USMB folks, 2nd gens 2nd favorites) with the EJ22 engine. Phase II EJ25's are better than Phase I's, but not as well loved as EJ22's. I believe the EJ22 went to an interference in '97, but I'm not sure. Again, check the above link for all Suby specs.

A diesel AWD wagon may be the way to go but they're hard or impossible to find and even if you do, it will be a beeyatch to repair (because they're almost always European and therefore hard to find parts for, etc.)

Originally Posted by Shin-to-Win

Criteria: AWD or better, comfy cruising at 75mph, >30mpg hwy. Can put a family of four (two adults, two kiids) in with enough room for bags in the back and can mount a box on top.

Subie Outback seems to be the standard bearer, but mileage is 21/28 City/Hwy on the 4cyl and I'd bet actual mileage loaded and at speed is much closer to 21. Don't even mention the Forrester . . . can't go there.

So what's the best ski rig available now or very soon?

In reality there's no point in switching to a more fuel efficient vehicle -- the payback is usually too long. If you're in the market for another vehicle then it's the way to go.

The new Jeep Liberty has a Diesel option, not a hybrid.

A hybrid works best in start and stop city traffic. There's little benefit on the highway where the gas engine is running all the time. (You move from 27 to 31 mpg for an extra $6,000. Do the math and figure out the payback.)

Something like a Suzuki Vitara/Chevy Tracker is a real 4WD but might be too small.

So you're back to a Subaru.

My solution was a Toyota Previa van, All-Trac.

Lots of room.

Best ones were made from 1995-1997, and have the supercharged 4 cylinder engine.

Can be had on the used market for $8-10K.

Stone cold reliable, but only gets about 18-20 mpg on the highway, max.

Drove a VW Touran (FWD Touraeg) with the 1.9l turbodiesel last year in Europe. It had awesome tourque, and averaged 32 MPG whilst being driven harrd through the alps.

I personally drive up a volvo V70 2WD, and yeah chains are a pain in the ass, but I have plenty of cargo room and get close to 30mpg all the time. I think the AWD volvos get about 3mpg lower than the 2WD, but they're comfortable, handle well and will hold more junk than subies. if you're looking at them, make sure it's the newer volvo AWD system that's similar to the Audi quattro system, my parents have the older one (on a '98 AWD v70) and the turning radius is terrible, but I believe the newer ones (2000 on) have the Haldex system.

Edit: and if you DO end up in a snowbank, the volvos are plenty safe

Both toyota and honda made awd hatchbacks in the 80s... tercel and civic respectively. Hard to find, but reliable and cheap. The toyota is roomier I think, and also has a transfer case (!).

Another thing worth noting: a 2wd car with snow tires will kick the pants off of an AWD car with all season tires. On dry snowy roads, snow tires are solid at 60mph, AND can stop. Carry chains to get you unstuck in the deep snow in the parking lot, and you should be fine unless you're driving on unplowed roads.

I'll second a 2wd. I've never had to chain up to get up the passes here.

Occasionally I will need to throw my chains under my tires to back out of my parking spot, but thats it.

[QUOTE=flip]Both toyota and honda made awd hatchbacks in the 80s... tercel and civic respectively. Hard to find, but reliable and cheap. The toyota is roomier I think, and also has a transfer case (!).QUOTE]

Yep, both great cars. Reliable, cheap, go anywhere (on roads anyway)-

Originally Posted by flip

Another thing worth noting: a 2wd car with snow tires will kick the pants off of an AWD car with all season tires.

Not always true, not just on the ski hill roads but on my drive home through town tonight - slush + rain on Alberta ice I drove past 2 2wd with snow tires which were having difficulty in my subie with good all seasons...

I want one of these.