What's the number?

[warthog]

Yeah, those that think the 2-5 mil numbers are high, are ummmm high. My father just retired with enough to hold him and my mother over, travel, live well, etc. It was a figure on the low side of those numbers. I figure I will need at least 1 mil more in 30 years when I retire. Prolly more. Not having kids would totally change that number, but I am also not accounting for $$ I would want them to have. Life insurance, property, and other assets will prolly cover that stuff.

Edit- I just ran a Kiplinger retirement calculator- it told me I needed 4.22 mil as a nest egg to live 35 years at 80% of current earnings. Guess my number was wrong.

[dan_pdx]

I only buy lottery tickets if Powerball is over $100M, so I guess that's your answer. (Though if you go lump sum, then I think you wind up around $25M or so).

Seriously, I'm young enough for Social Security to be defunct by the time I'm old enough to claim, and I'm thinking I'll just keep working -- hopefully less than full-time, but no telling. Sorry all you rich oldies, but I'm hoping to see a means test for SS soon.

[Cono Este]

I think the op was speaking of early retirement. You have to be seriously well off and lucky right now to quit at 50. That, or a govt worker.

[GeezerSteve]

The hippy-hating TGR mob will likely eschew the advice of the 1990's best sellerYour Money or Your Life but IMV it's a worthy read. Low overhead is the key to happiness, baby.

[warthog]

The hippy-hating TGR mob will likely eschew the advice of the 1990's best sellerYour Money or Your Life but IMV it's a worthy read. Low overhead is the key to happiness, baby.

I'm a big fan of that type of thinking. I like the Dave Ramsey books better. Still doesn't change the big picture for me, but puts things in perspective. You'll notice I have toys, but they are paid for and they are old. I think you can be modest and have fun too. Just depends on your mindset. If your dream is to have a new M5 every year to keep up with the other country clubbers, you will die poor. My grandparents were "the millionaire next door" type. You couldn't tell they had a dime, almost to a default. Typical depression era mindset. They didn't spend a dime on themselves.

[4matic]

Bud: How much is enough, Gordon? When does it all end, huh? How many yachts can you water-ski behind? How much is enough, huh?

Gekko: It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a Zero Sum game – somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply transferred – from one perception to another. Like magic. This painting here? I bought it ten years ago for sixty thousand dollars. I could sell it today for six hundred. The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes, the more desperately they want it. Capitalism at its finest.

Bud: How much is enough, Gordon?

Gekko: The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons – and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's bullshit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now, you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you, buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around, pal, I've still got a lot to teach you.

[XXX-er]

Low overhead is the key to happiness, baby.

I know a guy here in town who was a code monkey of some kind, he retired at 45ish and seems pretty happy/mellow but not a hippy , buddy has one plate one cup one spoon one fork one set of clothes which are neat but obviously not expensive,his hair is always neat & cut he does not have a car, he has a cheap bike or in winter (5months of snow up here) he walks , he rents a room in a buddies house, and women do not appear to swarm around him

the lower end of the continuim for sure and just what is possible ... if you aim low enough

[Cono Este]

I used to ski with a 65 yr old guy who retired to a one bedroom condo in Tahoe city but got 100 days in a yr.

I think those are the numbers we should really be talking about.

[iceman]

I used to ski with a 65 yr old guy who retired to a one bedroom condo in Tahoe city but got 100 days in a yr.

I think those are the numbers we should really be talking about.

And you would be...wrong. To get to that point you need your shit covered. How much do you need to cover your shit before you just buy the pass and ski every day, that's the question. You're not dumb, you work in finance if I recall, don't be facile.

[Tye 1on]

And you would be...wrong. To get to that point you need your shit covered. How much do you need to cover your shit before you just buy the pass and ski every day, that's the question. You're not dumb, you work in finance if I recall, don't be facile.

I'm not sure what point Cono was making so not sure what 'that point' is that you are referring to.

I do know that there's probably two ways to retire. Comfortably with all the same luxuries as in the working days, and deciding to just be a ski bum. Just cuz your 70 doesn't mean you can't eat rice and beans, drink Natty Light, not own a car, and roll the dice on health care. And do it all on your Social Security, Medicare, and a few hundo a month from a part time job or 'investments'. Sure, it might not be your cup of tea, but for 99% of the people ski bumming in their 20's is not what they think is 'right' either.

just sayin'...

[iceman]

My friend, iceman is stylee. We didn't go through all this shit to end up eating fucking ramen.

[Tye 1on]

My friend, iceman is stylee. We didn't go through all this shit to end up eating fucking ramen.

i wasn't suggesting ramen or shitty herb...those are givens...

[XXX-er]

the reality is you don't know what you don't know cuz there are all sorts of ways to live a pretty good life on the down low without eating ramen when you got more time than you got money

at some point in the game you will cash in your chips and you have your number ...which you HAVE to make work

[Platinum Pete]

Check out the blog (which has begotten a book) http://earlyretirementextreme.com/ for another take on how to get to the non-working part of your life and what that could look like.
Clearly, for some folks here their post-working lives need to match or exceed the expenses of their working lives - for some the opposite, and a spectrum between. No value judgements from this guy - one set of parents lives too well with narrow margins off a military pension and investments, while another set of parents lives off a teachers union pension and some entrepreneurial ism since over enthusiasm for the stock market wiped out their nest egg.
For me, I get tangled in wanting nice things and the opportunity to live however the hell I please on that given day - whether I crave fois gras or mac & cheese, and the idea of staying disciplined and enjoying the good life of not working while being constrained in luxuries. Not sure how I'll net out, but I am sure I'll be happy to be self made. The health care and location pieces to cost control are super important - I've got a Canadian girlfriend who I am nowhere near marrying, but I sometimes say to myself "sure she makes way way less income than I do, but she brings that Canadian citizenship to the equation."
Finding the number is hard, finding the discipline is hard, finding the will to sacrifice our healthiest and most capable (though likely not our most wise) years is hard. I make a good buck today, and I like the work despite the long hours and frustrations, but often think I'll need/want to take a year or two off mid-career to re-fuel and re-commit to whatever comes next. I'm not in a situation where I could stumble into a jackpot so I have to look at paystubs, 401ks, mutual funds, day trades, rental properties, and whatever other plays are within reach - it is all a bit terrifying and yet you have to leap sometimes.
The education gap around how to grow money without a professional to guide you through the rigged game of the stock market is horrifying. I have no fucking clue and yet I fell I gotta play - full committal to 401k and Roth IRA plus mutual funds - and I know I am the dumb money at the table. My brother, who makes way less, got out at the top and went all cash - he laughs at me now, but for how long?
I try to keep costs down, but I know there are a lot of costs left to cut (i live in San Francisco, afterall). I make a decent income (intentionally vague), but I know people my age and younger who earn double or more and lead a lifestyle that appears to be the same -since it is impolite to talk money I don't know where theirs goes. Maybe I'm ahead, maybe I'm behind, but either way I am not satisfied with the idea of working until I am over 50 and I do not have a specific plan on how to beat that inevitability. I could load up on rentals (in another market) to earn from and flip on 15 year mortgages (I'm 34) and that could squeak me in, maybe, but that carries a lot of risk. The options, including inaction, all seem bleak.

[Cono Este]

If I recall correctly, along with first tracks on Dutch Treat every storm, he also supplemented his income by being a cruise ship gigolo to a number of paying widows.

I am willing to do the same, and expect no less form anyone in here.

[Benny Profane]

I know a guy here in town who was a code monkey of some kind, he retired at 45ish and seems pretty happy/mellow but not a hippy , buddy has one plate one cup one spoon one fork one set of clothes which are neat but obviously not expensive,his hair is always neat & cut he does not have a car, he has a cheap bike or in winter (5months of snow up here) he walks , he rents a room in a buddies house, and women do not appear to swarm around him

the lower end of the continuim for sure and just what is possible ... if you aim low enough

Does this guy have a lot of guns or hang out near schoolyards?

[stevesmith7]

Here's my take. Everyone I've told this to says I'm way too conservative with this but then after they think about it for a while usually end up agreeing.

I = amount you need to cover everything in a year.
N = number of years you plan on living.


You need I x N.

That's it. If inflation is zero (not likely) then with zero investment returns you'd just spend 1/N of your nest egg every year. With real inflation you'd need to invest so that your after tax return on the whole sum is equal to inflation. This is not that easy to do without risk that you don't want to take. Adjust the number up or down to match your perceived ability to meet/beat inflation after tax.

[warthog]

Hmm- kinda like the equation for how many bikes or pairs of skis you need.
N+1 (N=#of bikes or pairs of skis you have now)

[Benny Profane]

N = number of years you plan on living

I didn't know this was doable. The planning part, I mean.

[Gordyman]

Thanks Iceman. This thread reminds me what a complete dumbass loser fuck I am. Fuck you.

My number?

Bout $5.

[GiBo]

the reality is you don't know what you don't know cuz there are all sorts of ways to live a pretty good life on the down low without eating ramen when you got more time than you got money

at some point in the game you will cash in your chips and you have your number ...which you HAVE to make work

This.

I don't have a 'number'. I'll have some retirement income and a little defferred money to draw on.

My friends and family think I'm kidding, but at 55 I'm eligilble for retirement and I'm retiring. I'll figure it out. I don't see the point in trying to maintain this lifestyle. I'm only maintaining it for my kids. When they're on their own (which will happen to be about 55 for me), I'm out of this rat race shit hole. 9.5 years to go...

[jack shit]

Given my age and bank account, none of the above is feasible for me. The first thing is we Jack Shits live well into our 90's. The second is that while we are comfortable, we do not have the retire early $$$ needed.

We have therefore chosen a different path. My wife and I are taking next year off to ski and travel. The amount of money required to do this ,while substantial is far less than total retirement. Our game plan is to return to the workforce in 2013, load up on cash and take 1 out of every 5 years off.

My grandfather worked until he was 89. He did so by choice. He told me on many occasions, "if you are going to live a long healthy life, work at least 3 days a week. It keeps the mind going "

[4matic]

This.

I don't have a 'number'. I'll have some retirement income and a little defferred money to draw on.

My friends and family think I'm kidding, but at 55 I'm eligilble for retirement and I'm retiring. I'll figure it out. I don't see the point in trying to maintain this lifestyle. I'm only maintaining it for my kids. When they're on their own (which will happen to be about 55 for me), I'm out of this rat race shit hole. 9.5 years to go...

What if the kids boomerang? Quite common these days.

[skifishbum]

and most people can write a sentence. Trade-offs.

hey bro the world needs underedjumacated bums of skiing and fishin 2
t- 6 days till I pester you to ghost write books for mad scilla ducketts
good news is egil is in charge of non slr keys
call with flight time cleanin the red messmobile 4 you and my long time no ski grom bud

[Tippster]

cleanin the red messmobile 4 you and my long time no ski grom bud

That could be several years' worth of retirement time right there...