Page 3 of 31 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 13 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 756
  1. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    371
    Im gonna have to re-read this thread to understand everyones ideas but, since i emailed dps-staff three years ago asking for a 115-120 waist 138shape, please remember to pm me if anyone ever gets around to building something similar.

    For us morons who tele, a lotus138 gets to be a lot of width as soon as it's not fluffy(this is why doG and jondrums invented perfect inserts) and wide tips suck for the same reason. ehp186 is the closest to a skinny 138 Ive found, but I havent skied everything.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    In my Pants!
    Posts
    12,374
    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn View Post
    I was reading up on the Protest and I came across this quote from KW which I thought was somewhat related.

    http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...83#post3247283
    I know! That's the problem!

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    199
    120ish under foot, 100ish cm of sidecut, 30ish m turning radius, katanaish (lack of) camber for the section of sidecut, long mellow tip rocker (C+D and renegade love child), STIFF, STIFF, DAMP, very mellow tail taper and low tail rocker.

    i will buy this ski. i will NOT buy this ski if there is any camber.

    if it has naked ladies i will buy this ski. if it does not have naked ladies i'll probably still buy this ski.

    C'mon Praxis, I need your bases for lone mountain. my PB's are getting tiresome with a broken foot.

    oh yeah, how about a 187ish?

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    In my Pants!
    Posts
    12,374
    Quote Originally Posted by newe english View Post
    120ish under foot, 100ish cm of sidecut, 30ish m turning radius, katanaish (lack of) camber for the section of sidecut, long mellow tip rocker (C+D and renegade love child), STIFF, STIFF, DAMP, very mellow tail taper and low tail rocker.

    i will buy this ski. i will NOT buy this ski if there is any camber.

    if it has naked ladies i will buy this ski. if it does not have naked ladies i'll probably still buy this ski.

    C'mon Praxis, I need your bases for lone mountain. my PB's are getting tiresome with a broken foot.

    oh yeah, how about a 187ish?
    That sounds like you'd be cool with the current 167 protest dimensions on a 187. 130-119-123, radius right at 30m. Me too.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Littleton
    Posts
    2,260
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    That sounds like you'd be cool with the current 167 protest dimensions on a 187. 130-119-123, radius right at 30m. Me too.
    Hate to say it but with the running length you guys are talking about, I think 190 is the absolute bottom end of length I'd be willing to pull the trigger on.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    In my Pants!
    Posts
    12,374
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffreyJim View Post
    Hate to say it but with the running length you guys are talking about, I think 190 is the absolute bottom end of length I'd be willing to pull the trigger on.
    Difference between 187 and 190 is a deal breaker? (serious question, not trying to be a smartass)

    I just need to know this stuff.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Littleton
    Posts
    2,260
    Short answer, yes.

    There has to be a cut off. And at 190, with the running length less than a DPS 112, its already borderline too short. I'm 6'2" 190... Rockered skis already ski short and I want this as a do-everything stick. A 194 would probably be "ideal".

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Innsbruck, Austria
    Posts
    652
    Just a heads up this tread just got a bump on early ups....

    ...

    Agh got to ride on my Protests again today in heavy low angle Pow. It was great because we had the whole lift too our selves with 75-100cm of heavy snow. Which was great because in Europe there was no snow at all. Didn't hit a thing. One thing I can say is that I was stoked on the 130mm/196cm underfoot because my cous (195 Powboard) and I were the only ones having any fun. Every one else (2 people) was just stuck!!

    Haha... This ski needs to happen even in low angle 15-20 Pow these things are just straight up fun!!!!!

    There were a bunch of skinny Euro tourers also around and being the geek that I am I went up and measured their skin track...

    I followed it for about 10m and just did a straight line pull.

    Narrowest point: 250mm

    Widest point: 275mm

    There has to be a cut off. And at 190, with the running length less than a DPS 112, its already borderline too short. I'm 6'2" 190... Rockered skis already ski short and I want this as a do-everything stick. A 194 would probably be "ideal".
    You can get this ski from any manufacturer. My 196cm Protest carves just fine as long as its not bullet proof; it will even do little 180 butters to 360 out. I do not need this thing to rail on groomers. A JJ/Bentchetler will do that for you. Plus what do you want a 30m possibly 30m+ radius as a do everything ski. This ski would see no pist time for me.

    I feel like a broken record here.

    Why skin on a minimum length 190cm ski. Longer is heavier and is a bitch on any boot pack while its strapped to your back.

    Protest like dimensions just skinnier. Must fit in 90% of skin tracks. Have minimal (3-4mm) side cut for side-hilling be a boot pack friendly length. Come in around 8 pounds.

    AGH this is not a do eveything ski!!! Am I just not getting the point of this ski!! For me this was gonna be my go to BC ski for long big ass tours... We have the normal Protest for resorts/cat/heli, the rp112 as your every day driver.I really dont give a shit what dimensions it has at this point as long as it fits in a skin track and has a ski feeling that relates to the original Protest. For those of you who have never been on a Protest it might be hard for you to grasp the idea of this ski because its a ski that is good at anything in 3D.

    This theoretical ski would be a BC touring machine. Why schlepp 9,5 pounds uphill if you could get the same essential feeling on something that is 1.5 pounds lighter. Easier to skin on because not only is side-hilling easier but you are dragging less skin as well. We know the Protest works and like its larger radius all that really needs to happen is for someone to see of this skinnier version with similar dimension proportions also works.

    Skis will always go to extremes to test new technology. From uber fat and uber rockered to skis with insane side cut and super short radius's.

    After learning from what works and what does not the best of both worlds can be used to develop skis that fullfill specific needs. If you are riding a lift this is not the ski for you, Praxis and DP already make those skis. I see this as a BC ski niche that has not been addressed or when some one has tried they have always gotten tied back into the idea that every Pow ski needs to be able to rock groomers. Large side cut and Pow skis do not belong in the same sentence together!!

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Littleton
    Posts
    2,260
    Quote Originally Posted by sqikunst View Post
    Just a heads up this tread just got a bump on early ups....

    ...

    Agh got to ride on my Protests again today in heavy low angle Pow. It was great because we had the whole lift too our selves with 75-100cm of heavy snow. Which was great because in Europe there was no snow at all. Didn't hit a thing. One thing I can say is that I was stoked on the 130mm/196cm underfoot because my cous (195 Powboard) and I were the only ones having any fun. Every one else (2 people) was just stuck!!

    Haha... This ski needs to happen even in low angle 15-20 Pow these things are just straight up fun!!!!!

    There were a bunch of skinny Euro tourers also around and being the geek that I am I went up and measured their skin track...

    I followed it for about 10m and just did a straight line pull.

    Narrowest point: 250mm

    Widest point: 275mm



    You can get this ski from any manufacturer. My 196cm Protest carves just fine as long as its not bullet proof; it will even do little 180 butters to 360 out. I do not need this thing to rail on groomers. A JJ/Bentchetler will do that for you. Plus what do you want a 30m possibly 30m+ radius as a do everything ski. This ski would see no pist time for me.

    I feel like a broken record here.

    Why skin on a minimum length 190cm ski. Longer is heavier and is a bitch on any boot pack while its strapped to your back.

    Protest like dimensions just skinnier. Must fit in 90% of skin tracks. Have minimal (3-4mm) side cut for side-hilling be a boot pack friendly length. Come in around 8 pounds.

    AGH this is not a do eveything ski!!! Am I just not getting the point of this ski!! For me this was gonna be my go to BC ski for long big ass tours... We have the normal Protest for resorts/cat/heli, the rp112 as your every day driver.I really dont give a shit what dimensions it has at this point as long as it fits in a skin track and has a ski feeling that relates to the original Protest. For those of you who have never been on a Protest it might be hard for you to grasp the idea of this ski because its a ski that is good at anything in 3D.

    This theoretical ski would be a BC touring machine. Why schlepp 9,5 pounds uphill if you could get the same essential feeling on something that is 1.5 pounds lighter. Easier to skin on because not only is side-hilling easier but you are dragging less skin as well. We know the Protest works and like its larger radius all that really needs to happen is for someone to see of this skinnier version with similar dimension proportions also works.

    Skis will always go to extremes to test new technology. From uber fat and uber rockered to skis with insane side cut and super short radius's.

    After learning from what works and what does not the best of both worlds can be used to develop skis that fullfill specific needs. If you are riding a lift this is not the ski for you, Praxis and DP already make those skis. I see this as a BC ski niche that has not been addressed or when some one has tried they have always gotten tied back into the idea that every Pow ski needs to be able to rock groomers. Large side cut and Pow skis do not belong in the same sentence together!!
    Ha. Thanks for the bump.

    Here are my thoughts.
    1) Any ski wider than ~115 is not going to be my daily driver or one ski quiver. Hence the Protest or any other similar ski is exactly what I'm not looking for due to width alone. Any of the other skis are too wide at the shovel/too much side cut. The reason I want a longer radius sidecut/relatively straight ski is if I am carving a turn, its usually larger turns or going fairly straight. Otherwise, the ability to pivot and slide a ski is HUGE to me (which a lot of sidecut hurts). For me, this type of ski will yield the pilot a ton of precision skiing while in bounds and fun turn shapes out.
    2) I already hike a fair amount generally with a 195 Praxis Pow to my back. Just sayin...I have no problem with a longer ski while hiking/touring
    3) Back to my original point, KW and I have similar design ideals but different intended purposes. I'll probably use this 50% in bounds, 50% touring/hiking.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Nice french alps( and sea)
    Posts
    105
    hi, this year with friends and a french craftsman we will build a "rocker2 renegade" 135mm underfoot with a "big 50cm reverse sidecut" on the front and 28cm reverse side cut on tail and 25/38 meter radius and 195 cm long.

    for next year, a skinnier version 100/105mm underfoot, little more mellow reverse sidecut and rocker, 20/25 radius with the same reverse camber base, 185cm long and 2 constructions:
    heavy solid charger
    light poppy ski touring
    and tip/no tip tail option

    perhaps we will use a little of keith genius concept, but only on the edges design.

    we're for now not sure of the name of these skis, perhaps Deep kiss

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Innsbruck, Austria
    Posts
    652
    1) Any ski wider than ~115 is not going to be my daily driver or one ski quiver. Hence the Protest or any other similar ski is exactly what I'm not looking for due to width alone. Any of the other skis are too wide at the shovel/too much side cut. The reason I want a longer radius sidecut/relatively straight ski is if I am carving a turn, its usually larger turns or going fairly straight. Otherwise, the ability to pivot and slide a ski is HUGE to me (which a lot of sidecut hurts). For me, this type of ski will yield the pilot a ton of precision skiing while in bounds and fun turn shapes out.
    Length: 188cm
    Dimensions: 115-118-110-114-108
    Camber length: 100cm
    Sidecut length:100
    Total tip taper: 54cm
    Total tail taper: 34cm

    Same Rocker profile as the current 188/187

    This is more what I was thinking. I also agree that 115mm is too fat. In all honesty if the ski could get whittled down to something like a 106-108mm I would be even more willing to buy it. I think the proportions can be tweaked a bit but the tip should still be in the range of 120ish.

    I know what you mean about length and how hiking with a 195 Powboard on you back is not the be all end all. The real difference between 188 and 190 is nothing. If the ski ever gets built and it comes in a 190 then of course I will get it. I am not gonna dick around because of 2cm.



    Its all about the amount of side cut. I drool over this ski every time I see one but then I think to my self I really do not care about how this thing performs on piste at all.

    Overall surface area and width is only part of the equation. It has to be surfy in order for it to fulfill its design purpose but Kidwoo and I are of the same opinion that this ski design has potential in a skinnier form. What people end up using it for is non-relevant, in my situation it would be my go to touring ski. For others it could be their daily driver and/or 1 ski quiver. If this thing is a pile of shit on groomers (which I doubt) it would not bother me because the gains made in terms of touring+downhill performance would justify the ski.

    Even though we all want different things from this "theoretical ski", its good that we agree its something that is not out there atm. It may be a small niche in ski design but the niche is still there, right??

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    North Vancouver
    Posts
    5,819
    Perhaps see if the Prior guys can tweak the Husume to get it to where you want it.

    http://www.priorsnow.com/husume

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Nice french alps( and sea)
    Posts
    105
    it's a matter of taste.
    and skis you have on your quiver.

    with gs, sl or some thing good on hard pack, 105 allthings and 130/140 powder sticks sounds good.

    with 85/90mm underfoot, 110/120 should cover a wide panel too.

    the 110mm skikunst is a nice idea

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Innsbruck, Austria
    Posts
    652
    Perhaps see if the Prior guys can tweak the Husume to get it to where you want it.
    They would have to pull the tip and tail taper points way back towards the toe and heal.

    I had a half chubb again all day for my Protest its just that good. I try lots of different things but it is worthy of the Kastle motto; "If eveything is a nail, this is your hammer" line. Its that good in anything soft.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    3,846
    I've never put as much thought into it as you guys but yeah...I think you're onto something. Spatulas, and Pows rule. S7 and JJ don't to it for me. ARGs and Protests looked sweet but I've never skied them.

    Even in traditional skis, +20,0,+10 sidecut numbers (tip, waist, tail) straight worked.

    Sounds like a love child of a Spatula and a Axiom.

    Sign me up!!!

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffreyJim View Post
    Hate to say it but with the running length you guys are talking about, I think 190 is the absolute bottom end of length I'd be willing to pull the trigger on.

    technically, my 195 powderboards have a running length of 0cm. and they are the most stable skis i've ever ridden. you're not still stuck on camber are ya?

    and i'm 5'11'' and 150#, i'm down with a 190 or even a 194, but i don't really need any more long skis to tell you the truth. this would be my everyday powder ski (one and the same, i try not to ski on piste). if this concept gets enough attention i'd love to see a 196 and a 187 like the current protest.

    and naked ladies.

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    In my Pants!
    Posts
    12,374
    I got a chance to swing by the Praxis shop today. Those guys have been killing it getting stocked for winter. I've never seen so many skis lined up at once.


    I chatted with Keith about the idea (for the nth time) and since they're so far ahead of the game this year, it sounds like he'll have time to give this a go. Since the molds and setups are already in place for the existing protest, he did say just varying the width on the current model would be the easiest way to go. So I'm thinking the same thing I've been thinking forever. 187 length. Everyone's talking waist width so I threw up 10mm all around narrower, 15, and then split the difference with 13. Radius would be unchanged at 30m. Personally, I'd be cool with any of these as <120 is all I'm really after. And for you guys asking for a 120 waist, if you really want to make an issue over 2mm, then you're a horrible person and should not be allowed to ski. Seriously though, that's pretty close.


    HTML Code:
    (Current)    (-10)    (-13)    (-15)
     139          129      126      124
     128          118      115      113 
     132          122      119      117

    He didn't want to give me a solid number price-wise right now but he have me a range and trust me......it's a sick deal. He sounded like he'd view this as more a fun prototype project than anything and people willing to take the chance should get hooked up. If you're seriously thinking about a ski like this, he said to shoot him an email. You'll be stoked on what he's got in mind.

    Same badass praxis construction, no shortcuts, carbon sheet, basically the same super solid quality build that anyone who's seen a pair of Keith's skis understands. Exact same rocker profile as the current protest.

    Literally only need about 8 peeps to step up to make this happen.

    So speak up, throw your hat in the ring as far as which of the deviations you're into. If I can figure out a way to make this a poll, I might just do that.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    199
    i really really like the -10 numbers, even though they really are just numbers. two more paychecks and i'm in. this is the ski i've been waiting for. did you happen to mention camber at all? gimme like a month. sounds like there isn't a whole lot of snow anywhere right now anyways.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    In my Pants!
    Posts
    12,374
    Forgot to mention this: He's saying mid january, but has some other stuff on his plate. End of january should be realistic. So just over a month.
    Last edited by kidwoo; 12-09-2011 at 08:15 AM.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    5,866
    115mm is still too wide for me...that's wider than my pow skis (Surface One Life).

    BTW, the One Life has a big-ass turn radius, an assload of rocker -- and though the tips are "wide", the ski is so stiff that it doesn't hook. Seriously, it's stiff as fuck. And if you want pointy tips (a topic on which I agree), just take out your router and shave them down...they're way off the snow so they don't need edges anyway.

    I'm holding out for a Bluehouse Monarch (114-96-110) with a ~25m radius instead of 18m. It's exactly what you want (shape, rocker, stiffness) except for the tiny radius. Make it about 109-96-106 and I'm there. I'm not personally interested in anything >98mm in the waist or weighing more than about 1800g/ski.

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Eagle, CO
    Posts
    2,235
    Ok, I'm a gear junky and like the concept kidwoo is pushing, but I'm short and don't need a huge length ski. Is there only one option for length? Would keith be into trying two different lengths? Any more info on estimate/target weight?
    Fun thread.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    In my Pants!
    Posts
    12,374
    Quote Originally Posted by Spats View Post
    115mm is still too wide for me...that's wider than my pow skis (Surface One Life).

    BTW, the One Life has a big-ass turn radius, an assload of rocker -- and though the tips are "wide", the ski is so stiff that it doesn't hook. Seriously, it's stiff as fuck. And if you want pointy tips (a topic on which I agree), just take out your router and shave them down...they're way off the snow so they don't need edges anyway.

    I'm holding out for a Bluehouse Monarch (114-96-110) with a ~25m radius instead of 18m. It's exactly what you want (shape, rocker, stiffness) except for the tiny radius. Make it about 109-96-106 and I'm there. I'm not personally interested in anything >98mm in the waist or weighing more than about 1800g/ski.
    One of the options is 113 at the waist

    Yeah man I'm sure you remember the conversation we had over a year ago now where we were talking about this. It's an old topic with me for sure. I did look at those monarchs and they were just too close to some other skis that I had already skied shape-wise and weren't what I was after. It's not entirely true to say it's the exact 'shape but not radius' I'm after. The shape defines the radius. Even at 114-96-110, the tail sticks out width-wise more than what I'm talking about. The short radius is the result of that. I just keep bringing up radius because it's a simple term everyone gets. It's a straight(ish) ski that I want. Because that's the closest to a reverse sidecut without actually having the issues of a reverse sidecut. So it's going to be the closest to a slarvy ideal without getting weird on the occasional packed snow. Even that monarch is double the difference between waist and tail of the current protest.....which I still think could be less but it's close enough. So yeah, the monarch is really close, closer than most radius-wise but it still doesn't bring the tapered ends in close enough to the foot. It just doesn't go quite as far as I want in either of those respects.

    And truth of the matter is that if there's any way I can get it made by praxis, that's the icing on the cake to ANY design. His skis are built about as good as they come without being some raceroom deal from europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kya View Post
    Ok, I'm a gear junky and like the concept kidwoo is pushing, but I'm short and don't need a huge length ski. Is there only one option for length? Would keith be into trying two different lengths? Any more info on estimate/target weight?
    Fun thread.
    I'm no giant (5'8"). Plus a 187 will still 'ski short' just from the rocker. I know you know this but just mentioning it.

    But between you and jefferyjim, it's becoming kind of obvious that the idea is something other people are after and production should be considered to get some different lengths out there.

    But right now it kind of comes down to this. Keith and I are about the same size. So the 187 is probably the most likely scenario right now. Let's see how this little experiment goes and if people are stoked, (including Alto/Tabke) there might be more options in the future size-wise. I did ask him about a longer size (mostly because VC was standing right next to me and said he'd think about it if it were available in man size). Less headaches for him if this first little experiment is all the same ski.

    If you think you can live with a 187, shoot me a pm. You'll be stoked on the details I think if you can talk yourself into the size.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    30
    kidwoo, I found some answers to my previous questions so I deleted my post. I might be interested in a ski like this. No problem waiting for a couple months due to shoulder surgery keeping me off the snow until april! Width 113 sounds about right, length 187. When you say molds and setups for the Protest are done, does that mean the topsheet would have to be the same on this potential test run? From their specs on the website it looks like the BC has a different lightweight topsheet. Are their posted weights accurate? And what might the weight end up at? Not to be a weight weenie, but this is a backcountry ski we're talking about! I'm new to this forum, how do i pm you?

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    utar
    Posts
    2,455
    I would be interested really in any one of the three. I agree that 138 or 135 is too fat. It kills my knees. I could get down on them because I think it would ski like the spat but be a little more versatile like the protest.

    In fact there are a couple of guys I ski with that might be into it too. I'll find out. But for right now I'm leaning more toward the 119 or the 125 waist but shit I would even do the 115 and make it an everyday quiver of one ski. I mean I rode the EHP every day and it is 116.

    My only issue would be price, I mean if is too much i'm out.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpinalTap View Post
    I'm really troubled by whatever pictures the Don had to search through to arrive at that one...

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    I did mention camber.....same as the protest.

    Forgot to mention this: He's saying mid january, but has some other stuff on his plate. End of january should be realistic. So just over a month.


    -15 is more what I'm leaning towards so if it's straight split or close between the -15 and -10, it's going to be -13. Once again......2-3mm on the same shape isn't worth making a stink over.

    Thanks for speaking up.
    I'm 100% in, very happy with 187cm length. My first choice is the -13cm version, second choice is the -15cm version, third choice is -10cm version, but no version is a dealbreaker.
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •