Thread: Military lockup of american citizens without charge, senate vote in next couple days.

I just found this and need to explore further. What do you think?


Senators Demand the Military Lock Up American Citizens in a “Battlefield” They Define as Being Right Outside Your Window.

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-se...y-define-being

Now who in the world would have the money to lobby for something like that?

I read about this over the weekend, hard to even imagine it even getting as far as a vote, but here we are.

Good write up with links to contact Congress here:

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspo...-military.html

U.S. being declared a "Battlefield" -Military can arrest and Lock Up ANY U.S. citizen - We are about to become Nazi U.S.A. - Seriously! Bill Going to vote on floor Monday (11/28/11)


This is it! This would take away any last freedoms we think we may have.

A Bill that allows the military to become the police and declares the U.S. as a battlefield, then the military can take and detain any U.S. citizen in the battlefield! They never have to charge you with anything nor give you a trial with this bill! In other words, if they don't like what you say or do, you can be picked up and held for the rest of your life without ever be given a reason nor trial!

If you enjoy what little freedoms we have left... then you need to let your elected official (not that they listen to the people) to vote NO on this bill!

It is coming up for vote on Monday or Tuesday - Carl Levin (D) and John McCain (R) created a bill behind closed doors that proclaims even the U.S. as a battlefield and U.S. citizens can be proclaimed enemy combatants!

This is so serious! This makes the military the Police and allows the military to come to your front door and arrest and lock you up! Remember the patriot act allows the U.S. to take people and never say they have them.

This would even go farther, it will be the military not the FBI, CIA etc to take U.S. citizens. It could be the military that could start shooting at us, since we would be in a battlefield!

Is it because the government doesn't trust the police to stop the Occupy Wall Street folks? Is it because they know the police may even join the OWS movement at some point?

The ACLU is telling everyone to contact they elected official and tell them to vote NO!

This is so outrageous!

We will be Egypt/Syria/Libya if this goes through! The military will be our police!

Lindsay Graham and Kelley Ayotte both (R) support the bill - they feel the U.S. is a battlefield now.

From link:

The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself.


The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world.

The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself.


The worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which will be on the Senate floor on Monday. The bill was drafted in secret by Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and passed in a closed-door committee meeting, without even a single hearing.

In support of this harmful bill, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) explained that the bill will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.” Another supporter, Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) also declared that the bill is needed because “America is part of the battlefield.”


Here is a link to contact your Congress person
http://www.contactingthecongress.org/
Here is the link to contact the Senate
http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm
Do you enjoy the few freedoms we have left? Do you want the military to be able to come to your door step and take you away?

We could become Germany under the Nazis! Seriously... we could. They went to people's homes and took them without reason and locked them up and killed them. The U.S. is basically about to Okay doing the same thing here. The government will officially become a Nazi government if this bill goes through. Because it will allow them to do exactly as the Nazis did!

Go to this link - fill out your name etc... through the ACLU, it will go to your Senator saying - Do NOT vote for this.
https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocac...subsrc=fixNDAA

Carl Levin (D-Mich.)
John McCain (R-Ariz.)
Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.)
Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.)

4 giant assholes right there. John McCain...dodged a bullet and a half with that slimy fuck. I can't believe I ever liked the guy. Anyone else think he pulled a huge authoritarian/dumbass u-turn starting with Sarah Palin?

Carl Levin's involvement surprises me. Good guy in person, never seemed that hawkish to me.

Fuck the udal amendment too. Guy acts like hes doing us a favor fuck that shit, squash this whole damn thing.

This is troubling, Sent this to my Congressman and Senator

The worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill

If this is true? I strongly feel that this goes too far.
I become more frustrated as the years go by seeing law that would not stand on its own merit buried in vital bills.
Yes we need to pass a National Defense funding bill. But please vote NO to this bill if it has other legislation unrelated to spending for National Defense.

The United States is not a battle field. No Us Citizen can be detained and held without the due process we have always enjoyed.

Sincerely
MTT

Guys, relax. As people in here point out every day, government knows best. They are the best and brightest, and the more power they have the better. Only good things can come from empowering the government with more control than they already have

The Senate passed a bill today allowing indefinite detention of American citizens living within the U.S.

While some have claimed that this is incorrect, and that American citizens would be exempted from the indefinite detention within U.S. borders authorized by the Act, the Committee chairman who co-sponsored the bill – Carl Levin – stated today in Senate debate that it could apply to American citizens.

Levin cited the Supreme Court case of Hamdi which ruled that American citizens can be treated as enemy combatants:

“The Supreme Court has recently ruled there is no bar to the United States holding one of its own citizens as an enemy combatant,” said Levin. “This is the Supreme Court speaking.“

Under questioning from Rand Paul, co-sponsor John McCain said that Americans suspected of terrorism could be sent to Guantanamo.

You can hear the statements from Levin and McCain on today’s broadcast of KFPA’s Letters and Politics.

As Raw Story notes:



The provision would authorize the military to indefinitely detain individuals — including U.S. citizens — without charge or trial.



“If these provisions pass, we could see American citizens being sent to Guantanamo Bay,” Rand said in the video. “This should be alarming to everyone watching this proceeding today. Because it puts every single American citizen at risk.”



“There is one thing and one thing only protecting innocent Americans from being detained at will at the hands of a too-powerful state — our Constitution, and the checks we put on government power,” he continued. “Should we err today and remove some of the most important checks on state power in the name of fighting terrorism, well, then the terrorists have won.”



“Detaining citizens without a court trial is not American. In fact, this alarming arbitrary power is reminiscent of Egypt’s ‘permanent’ Emergency Law authorizing preventive indefinite detention, a law that provoked ordinary Egyptians to tear their country apart last spring and risk their lives to fight.”

The debate is also being streamed live on CSpan-2.

While passage of the bill would make the Founding Fathers roll in their grave, it might not change that much. As former constitutional lawyer Glenn Greenwald notes:

With very few exceptions, the McCain-Levin bill, awful though it is, doesn’t create any powers beyond what the O Admin thinks it now has.

Indeed, the U.S. has been a de facto police state for many years.
“A MIDDLE EAST DICTATORSHIP HAS MORE DEMOCRATIC ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ABUSE OF POWER, INCLUDING TORTURE, THAN THE US UNDER OBAMA”



The same Senate is now considering a bill to repeal the prohibitions against torture:

The ACLU and over 30 other organizations sent a letter to the Senate asking them to oppose an effort in Congress that threatens to revive the use of torture and other inhumane interrogation techniques. If passed, an amendment introduced by Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) to the Defense Authorization bill would roll back torture prevention measures that Congress overwhelmingly approved in the 2005 McCain Anti-Torture Amendment, as well as a 2009 Executive Order on ensuring lawful interrogations. It would also require the administration to create a secret list of approved interrogation techniques in a classified annex to the existing interrogation field manual.



In a related development, republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann renewed her attack on the prohibition of waterboarding and other forms of torture ….

Glenn Greenwald pointed out last week:



Andrew Sullivan … today noted that the U.S. under Obama imposes even less accountability for abuse of power and war crimes than does Bahrain:



Bahrain’s Sunni government promised “no immunity” for anyone suspected of abuses and said it would propose creating a permanent human rights watchdog commission. “All those who have broken the law or ignored lawful orders and instructions will be held accountable,” said a government statement, which says the report acknowledges that the “systematic practice of mistreatment” ended shortly after martial law was repealed on June 1.



As Andrew put it: “So a Middle East dictatorship has more democratic accountability for abuse of power, including torture, than the US under Obama.” Beyond things like this and the facts set forth in the last paragraph here, perhaps Andrew could use today’s post of his to help clear up the towering mystery he raised yesterday of liberal disenchantment with Obama. That American war criminals are being aggressively shielded from any and all accountability is not an ancillary matter but one of enduring historical significance.

That’s okay, though, because – according to top military, intelligence and civilian experts on interrogation – torture:

(1) Doesn’t produce actionable intelligence

(2) Reduces national security

(3) Creates more terrorists

(4) And is only useful for:

(A) Producing false confessions; and

(B) As a way of terrorizing the population


http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...authorizing-mo

I sure Hope this wasn't the Change Obama was talking about. Major points to be made if he vetoes this thing when it reaches his desk. Not holding my breath.

Obama threated a veto. Think he'll do it?

I don't.

Why not? Did you have some inside info from your corporate fascist sponsors that the rest of us don't?

Originally Posted by splat

Why not? Did you have some inside info from your corporate fascist sponsors that the rest of us don't?

Obama will eventually need the right to start indiscriminately locking up guys like me.

This is as good an opening of the slippery slope as anything.

The only reason he may veto is that he can paint the Repubs in a bad light with it for political purposes. If he does, he'll need to sneak it through again in his second term. Maybe he can do an executive order.

http://paul.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=399

Thank Jeebus for the Paul family.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Obama will eventually need the right to start indiscriminately locking up guys like me.

This is as good an opening of the slippery slope as anything.

The only reason he may veto is that he can paint the Repubs in a bad light with it for political purposes. If he does, he'll need to sneak it through again in his second term. Maybe he can do an executive order.

I gotta hand it to the puppetmasters when both sides think the other wants to lock them up.

We can just take turns locking each other up for four years at a stretch, eight when people are reelected.

Nurse Ratchet! Have you seen my Guantanamo lottery ticket?

UPDATE: Just to underscore what is — and is not — motivating the Obama administration’s objections to this bill, Sen. Levin has disclosed, as Dave Kopel documents, that “it was the Obama administration which told Congress to remove the language in the original bill which exempted American citizens and lawful residents from the detention power,” on the ground it would unduly restrict the decision-making of Executive Branch officials. In other words, Obama officials wanted the flexibility to militarily detain even U.S. citizens if they were so inclined, and are angry that this bill purports to limit their actions.

That, manifestly, is what is driving their objections here: not a defense of due process, but a demand that Congress not interfere with their war. As John Yoo put it back on September 25, 2001, in a secret memo insisting on Congressional powerlessness: “These decisions, under our Constitution, are for the President alone to make.” The Obama administration and their Senate defenders have repeatedly made clear that their real objection to this bill is that they want Executive Branch officials — in the DOJ, CIA and Pentagon — to make these decisions, not Congress, and there is no reason to disbelieve them.

its worth reading in its entirety:

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/01/cong...umf/singleton/

Originally Posted by Ripzalot

its worth reading in its entirety:

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/01/cong...umf/singleton/

Dare I say it....... Get out there and VOTE RON PAUL

^^^^^Sonny boy helped shoot that down.

http://paul.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=399

fuckin passed 93-7

bullshit

jon stewart on it

Originally Posted by Tye 1on

fuckin passed 93-7

bullshit

whatever. They've already been doing this. Nobody cares cause its all Obamas fault or the republicans fault or whatever.

Originally Posted by nutcase

whatever. They've already been doing this. Nobody cares cause its all Obamas fault or the republicans fault or whatever.

Don't disagree with the blame game gridlock comment, but this goes toward jailing US citizens on US soil. That's been happening? Examples?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%...lla_(prisoner)

Originally Posted by Ripzalot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%...lla_(prisoner)

Yes and no. Arrested on US soil, yes. Declared 'enemy combatant' not eligible for trial, yes. Four years later moved to civilian court for criminal trial, yes. This last step could not ever happen if this goes through, from what i understand...

I'm glad to see so many people here against this ridiculously fascist bill. Even some of the people I thought would be in favor of it are against it. That is comforting, at least.


What I don't understand is how that damned bill passed the Senate. I think I know, because those outrageous tenets of being able to call the U.S. a military battleground and other such shit was buried in a ridiculously long and boring bill that most people didn't even bother to fully read.

That is exactly the type of laziness that got the Patriot Act passed (plus the nifty idea of calling it the 'Patriot Act'...so that no one would want to be seen voting against it).

On a good note, I just heard that Ron paul says if he is elected, he will do everything in his power to repeal the patriot Act in full. Obama sure as hell didn't make the least of a step toward repealing that fascist Act.

I'm starting to like Ron Paul more....except for his stance on environmental issues.


EDIT: Obama needs to veto this damned thing PRONTO.

93 - 7 ???????? WTF?? In a Democrat majority Senate???? Double WTF???

Why in hell isn't this act getting any press?? I barely hear about it on the mainstream media...only on the internet.

--

Originally Posted by Alaskan Rover

I'm glad to see so many people here against this ridiculously fascist bill. Even some of the people I thought would be in favor of it are against it. That is comforting, at least.


What I don't understand is how that damned bill passed the Senate. I think I know, because those outrageous tenets of being able to call the U.S. a military battleground and other such shit was buried in a ridiculously long and boring bill that most people didn't even bother to fully read.

That is exactly the type of laziness that got the Patriot Act passed (plus the nifty idea of calling it the 'Patriot Act'...so that no one would want to be seen voting against it).

On a good note, I just heard that Ron paul says if he is elected, he will do everything in his power to repeal the patriot Act in full. Obama sure as hell didn't make the least of a step toward repealing that fascist Act.

I'm starting to like Ron Paul more....except for his stance on environmental issues.


EDIT: Obama needs to veto this damned thing PRONTO.

93 - 7 ???????? WTF?? In a Democrat majority Senate???? Double WTF???

Why in hell isn't this act getting any press?? I barely hear about it on the mainstream media...only on the internet.

--

Proving once again, they're all shitbags only differentiated by irrelevant wedge issues. Obama is threatening a veto, but for all the wrong reasons according to Jon Stewart, lulz.