Thread: Need advice on a heavier mid layer

Hey guys, I need a little advice about any recommendations for a heavier mid layer. Right now I keep a Gucci R1 as a base, a Gucci Nano Puff as a lighter mid layer, and a MH Dragon as my outer layer. I'm looking to get a heavier mid layer that could be used as a standalone jacket for colder weather. I need something breathable to ski in and not so bulky that it will tough to layer under a shell. So far I'm looking at the Arc Atom SV and the MH Compressor hooded. Sorry for the cluttery topic, but if anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

That's a pretty heavy setup. I usually do a capilne 1 baselayer, r1 midlayer & mh dragon softshell on top which has me comfy to 0F or so. If it's nuking snow, raining or extremely windy I'll sometimes cover it all up with a thin waterproof shell like a mh typhoon or gucci torrent shell. If it's gonna be crazy cold I'll swap the cap1 base for a cap 2 or 3.

Originally Posted by Whiteandgreen25

I'm looking to get a heavier mid layer that could be used as a standalone jacket for colder weather.

I don't understand the above statement? My heaviest mid-layer is a wool sweater, on top of a wool base. Me likes wool.

I would look at something like the Patagonia Guide jacket. It is a wind proof softshell so works great as a stand alone jacket, yet can be layer under a hard shell if conditions are really nasty. I have something similar, but I can't remember the model. but it is similar to the Guide, but have waterproof zips and a couple other up grade features from the Guide.

Capilene, down sweater and the soft shell, and I am good to go for most conditions.

If you're asking because you're cold...
I'd start adding a cap/merino3 under the R1. Second step, loose the down. As popular as down mid-layers are right now, they suck for even moderate activity levels, IMO. (I'm sure it's been discussed before so I'll leave it at that) Try trading out the R1 and Nano for a heavy highly breathable fleece like an R3/R4.

If you are looking for something to throw on the Christmas list, then I'd say try a bunch of stuff on with your shell and under-layers. Some loft jackets will make you feel like a marshmallow man under one shell, but feel invisible under another.

second the merino or midweight base layer. with that an R2 should be fine unless it gets real cold. Haven't checked out the R3 or R4 layers lately; previous models weren't cut well for active pursuits ime

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

second the merino or midweight base layer. with that an R2 should be fine unless it gets real cold. Haven't checked out the R3 or R4 layers lately; previous models weren't cut well for active pursuits ime

The R2 and R3 are basically the same cut. The R4 is a bit more boxy. I wouldn't recommend it under a slim cut shell, but works fine under baggier stuff.

A fleecy softshell or wind stopping fleece would probably fit the bill. I think everyone makes something like that. Sorry, I can't think of one right now.

I like the new flylow swindler micropuff. I've used it as a mid-layer under a shell, and as an outer piece. It's got pit-zips which I think is a plus on anything that blocks wind. No hood works better under a shell IMO.

40gr thermolite vs 60gr primaloft in the nano. I'd be afraid of what tree branches could do to this thing as an outer layer, but haven't tried it yet...

Or for $68.00 (for the set), get you some of these...



http://theharnessshoponline.com/inde...oducts_id=1000

Like Chowda says think more layers instead of heavier layers. Air that gets trapped between the layers adds to the insulation and is fairly light. Too bad it's hard to find mesh base layers anymore (I know of one place back east that sells some norwegian stuff for many dollars.)

Montbell Alpine Light Down Parka

Originally Posted by old goat

Like Chowda says think more layers instead of heavier layers. Air that gets trapped between the layers adds to the insulation and is fairly light. Too bad it's hard to find mesh base layers anymore (I know of one place back east that sells some norwegian stuff for many dollars.)

Buy once, use for 20 years...

http://www.reliableracing.com/detail.cfm?edp=10143840

Only $50... pretty cheap at least compared to merino wool.

I really like the mesh zip shirt under a merino wool t-shirt, or crew neck. Allows the wool to do it's magic, but keeps the damp just enough away from your skin. While wet wool still insulates some, it's still wet and not as warm as dry.

If you want a soft shell jacket. ( which IMHO everybody should ), look for one with a hood and Schoeller dryskin. The hood makes a huge difference in how much weather you can stand with just the jacket. MEC in ca makes a cheap good one with the second best choice, Polartec® Wind Pro® polyester fleece.

http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/MensCl...acket-mens.jsp

Having trouble understanding a few basics, like why you're currently cold (fairly warm setup unless you ride lifts all day in AK), what temps you're encountering, what kind of terrain you do. Far as gear, good luck with a down outer layer. Maybe you never ski near trees. Or pass near buildings, doorways, walls. OTOH, anyone who thinks fleece breathes as well as down for a mid-layer is smoking good stuff. It may seem to breathe better because it doesn't insulate as well, so cooler. IMO synth mid-layers are fairly worthless for warmth, only advantage is holding up to rain. Layers work well, but truth is they get bulky too and you spend all day tweaking them, taking one off, putting it back on. I'd suggest a well vented gore tex shell + down vest, actually.

Originally Posted by Beyond

Having trouble understanding a few basics, like why you're currently cold (fairly warm setup unless you ride lifts all day in AK), what temps you're encountering, what kind of terrain you do.

He didn't say he was cold, but that he needs a breathable shell for skinning and he'd like it to work under his current shell in addition.

As far as gore-tex goes, it's never worked for me. eVent comes close, but unless it's really cold and windy or water is falling from the sky, a hard shell stays
in my pack.

Hey guys, really appreciate the responses. Great info, and glad my advice thread could bring about some. Guess I could have been more clear on what I'm looking for and what conditions I'm trying to cover.

I love having the R1 and Nano Puff because they're each so useful for their respective stand alone conditions, and for layering. On most days, those two along with some Cap under my soft shell are perfectly warm. Unrelated to my original questions, but if anyone has any similar variations that they'd like to offer, feel free to continue to do so. I really like the R3 idea, but like I said, I use the R1 and Nano a lot as standalone and like having the Nano for conditions with a little wetness.

To clarify what I was originally looking for, what I should have said is that I'm looking for a very warm jacket as a standalone, but is compressible ENOUGH to be worn under my soft shell in super cold conditions and breathable ENOUGH to be worn during activity such as skiing. I guess I should have emphasized the stand alone part more. I have since directed my attention to the Gucci hooded down sweater or MH Nitrous hooded. I know that in terms or breathability down isnt ideal, but like I said I would only be using it for activity under cold conditions. If anyone has any other suggestions between the Down Sweater and the Nitrous or have any other suggestions, that would be awesome.

Hope that is more clear. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

Montbell Alpine Light Down Parka

Montbell Alpine Light Down Parka.

Same weight with more down and loft than the options you mentioned.

I got a MH nitrous jacket from the clymb for $109.00 It's last year's and they currently have them again for $109.00 Last year's didn't have zippers on the handwarmer pockets, and I didn't think it would be very good as an outer piece, but probably good as a mid-layer. Anyway, I sent it back and got the flylow swindler.

This years nitrous look's a little bit better, but it sounds like maybe a MH zonal might be more of what you're looking for. Thermic Micro insulation and Technostretch side panels for stretch and breathability.

Or go see a seamstress and have them sew pit zips into your nano.

I just went through a pretty similar purchase and ended up with this from first ascent. 40% off with free shipping right now. Wish I had it so I could give you a real review, but seems like it might be worth checking out since your criteria are similar to mine. Although using this as a mid-layer is the least important of my needs so this could be a little warmer than what you need.

So, after much deliberation, I have narrowed down my search to the Montbell Frostline down parka. Just wondering if any of you have any input in regards to the ability to layer this jacket under a shell when things get wet. Also, is the difference in warmth that significant from a lighter down jacket such as the MB Alpine light down? Thanks in advance.

Another MB Alpine Light Down owner; I've skied ~100 days skiing it as an outer layer in CO. From my experience, it doesn't layer super well under a shell as it's pretty puffy with the bigger baffles (compared to thin baffle design that's pretty hip in 2011). It's functional, and still warm, but it wasn't the best underneath my shell. That said, it has performed pretty well when "wet" in CO. Despite thin fabric and a basic DWR coating, it stands up pretty well in the snow and [somehow] hasn't torn on branches or my edges. It's pretty warm, so I can imagine that ~50% more fill in the Frostline would be real toasty, but also a bit bulky for underneath a shell. I layer a wicking base, a gucci Merino 4 underneath and do real well; -10F windchill yesterday at Winter Park.

My ideal everyday, cold-weather jacket to skip the shell/bulky mid-layer combo: http://www.prolitegear.com/rab-neutr...wn-jacket.html

Atom SV is excellent. See the Cold Thistle blog he harps on how good it is.

BUMP

The Montbell Alpine Light Down Parka really is absurd. Best jacket I've ever owned.

I was about to purchase one of their sleeping bags in December when I came upon this video. I bought the jacket instead of a bag: http://www.backpacker.com/editors-ch...one/videos/151

Originally Posted by Dr. Scientist

My ideal everyday, cold-weather jacket to skip the shell/bulky mid-layer combo: http://www.prolitegear.com/rab-neutr...wn-jacket.html

^^^ RAB nuetrino endurance is amazing.

You could stick with your existing mid layers, and buy something like a Patagucci DAS Parka to wear instead of your existing MH shell on the coldest days.

DAS = warm as a sleeping bag.

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