Pagin hutash - Why Can't I Take My Pup on a Tour

[powdork]

obviously i'll listen to anyone, not just hutash
i've heard from many people I shouldn't be taking my pup on tours with me. i believe them. i just am wondering why and what I should be looking for to tell when he is ready. part of the problem is we don't really know how old he is. the guess at the shelter, which probably comes from the vet is 6 mos. i've had others say they were sure he was older and others say younger

it's this little guy. supposedly sheltie/aussie/whippet
(from doggie stoke thread)nacho, proud pup


man's best friends


he backed off here (he's never crossed a river of any sort), but when i carried him across and left him on the island he made it back by himself

[Ted Striker]

I'm not Dr Hutash - nor do I play him on TV - but I did ask our vet about running and skiing with our first puppy, and her answer was the magic number for strenuous/continuous running is one year old. The concern is repetitive stress on their bones before they are fully developed.

Cool looking pup, you've got there.

[powdork]

I'm not Dr Hutash - nor do I play him on TV - but I did ask our vet about running and skiing with our first puppy, and her answer was the magic number for strenuous/continuous running is one year old. The concern is repetitive stress on their bones before they are fully developed.

Cool looking pup, you've got there.

i've heard that, and i also swear i heard something about ligaments once.
at what point does it become repetitive?

and when are the bones fully developed. i've had people say "look at the size of his feet, looks like he's fully grown". if i determine via some measurement he's not growing is there a period for the bones to harden? or is the hardening of the bones what stops the growing process?

[Piggity]

I'm not Dr Hutash but did stay at a Holiday Inn express. This thread popped up in a search, talks about blown ACL's running in downhill mank, also possible hip problems if running 'em downhill too early, especially German shepherds. Most likely other breeds with know hip dysplasia problems

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ing-with-a-dog

[splitter]

Hey PD,
Nice dog there. As mentioned, it has to do with developing hips. Certainly torn ligaments can be an issue, but that is more of a liability with older dogs and/or really deep days.

It's hard to wait. It's harder to stop taking them when they get old. Just to be safe, I'd give her a few months and take her on some spring tours when the weather is nicer for that short hair and it's not as much work.

Then, she'll get out next year.

[powdork]

It's hard to wait. It's harder to stop taking them when they get old. Just to be safe, I'd give her a few months and take her on some spring tours when the weather is nicer for that short hair and it's not as much work.

they clipped his nails before leaving the shelter so he doesn't really have traction even on windslabs (yes i have taken him out). do you generally keep your dogs nails longer than normal to accommodate ice?

i have been looking at some cool vests too. most likely a christmas present.

had the pup for a little over a week and we just had our first 24 hours with no accidents. Yay!

[concretejungle]

they clipped his nails before leaving the shelter so he doesn't really have traction even on windslabs (yes i have taken him out). do you generally keep your dogs nails longer than normal to accommodate ice?

i have been looking at some cool vests too. most likely a christmas present.

had the pup for a little over a week and we just had our first 24 hours with no accidents. Yay!

Maybe don't take it out in conditions that it can't get around on?

Honestly spring tours or mellow non-turn related tours are the only time I take our dog out. It's hard if the snow is deep and they wallow around and I don't think letting them grow really helps that problem.

Be sure to get a beacon for the dog when you take it out on epic powder days and maybe change it's name to avalanche.

[HotCarl]

May consider a hunting vest for them too. I forget what they call em. Basically to protect their bellies/ribs from stuff. I know my lab has run through some gnarly stuff in the early season,you never know what's under the snow.

[splat]

I thought that was your pet jackalope.

[hutash]

I didn't stay at Holiday Inn Express last night, so this post may have no merit, but one year of age is about right for most dogs for real strenuous exercise. It has to do will all of the above, bones, ligaments, hips, et cetera. You want to avoid repetitive stress to those structures which are still developing. It is like kids a Little League, you don't want them throwing endless curve balls at 12 years old, it plays hell on the elbow and shoulder. Easy meadow skipping tours should be fine, it is the hard pounding activity like long runs that should be avoided. Vaccinations are an issue as well, but that is just for young pups, and that should not be an issue after 4 months when pup should gets it's last distemper/parvo booster and rabies.

As for age, look at his teeth. If all adult teeth are in and full size, he is at least 6 months old. If they are bright white and shinny he is likely under a year of age, but if they have a touch of tartar, or just don't have that brilliance he his likely closer to a year of age. Also, if he is pretty well done growing you can assume he is closer to a year of age. Unfortunately there are no absolutes, but those are some things to look at.

Bottom line; He can tour with you, just take it easy and avoid long hard tours with a lot of heavy running.

Be especially careful around creek crossings, I have know of more then a few dogs swept away and drowned. They have no concept of fast water.

BTW, good lookin' pup, he should make a great partner. Get him a dog frequency beacon, that one Post about the guy who's dog got buried would have been heartbreaking if it didn't end well.

[Dhelihiker]

I think it depends on the dog to some extent, My dog loves snow but make a miserable touring partner. She wants to walk right behind me and Im afraid Im going to cut her feet. After an hour her paws fill up with snow dingleberries and I have to clean them out. On the down hill (in deep snow) she wants to follow my skin track as opposed to ripping the pow. Granted last year was deep, alot and I never got her out in spring conditions. Bit Ive decided against trying to mimic Gimpys set up, and at the same time admire his dogs ability.

[::: :::]

for young dogs, you will not be "touring"; you will be going for a walk

what i mean is that you watch the dog and watch for any lagging or slowed recovery from fast efforts

the dog drives the bus on these tours
same thing with running or mtb'ing
the dog determines when you're done


remember how hard it is to "get in shape again"
well, that's what's going on with the dog
he is basically training for the bigger days by starting small and progressively working his way up

running through snow is hard work

[powdork]

Maybe don't take it out in conditions that it can't get around on?

think 15 degree hard windslabs, not ice, and it was only for like 10'. i was just surprised to see his lack of traction. since he hasn't been out before me, how do i know what he can or can't get around on until we get around on it. it ma be a matter of learning as much as nail length.

[powdork]

for young dogs, you will not be "touring"; you will be going for a walk

what i mean is that you watch the dog and watch for any lagging or slowed recovery from fast efforts
...

running through snow is hard work

that's been one of the hardest things, yesterday was super crusty low so he was having a hard time when he went on his own. But he learned to follow behind me with a little coaxing. i had to take the tail clips off my skins cuz he kept stepping on them and i'm guessing those would hurt. eventually he got to where he could mostly stay on the track in front of me which was no small feat since all that was left of the previous track was some wind-sculpted pole plants. this tour ended up being further than i planned, since half way up i realized topping out and going down a sunny exposure would be better than making him go back down through the crusts with everything lurking under them. prolly ended up being close to two miles and 1300' vert. he charged the whole time unlike our other shorter tours where he would basically sit in the skin track and say 'no mas'.
the hardest part would have been the runout from the open part of the resort back to chair 7 since it was crusty and he was running, but afterward (the video end) he was still charging (and the rest of the day).





edit-thanks everyone for the replies

[leroy jenkins]

My dog has mnt biked with me more times than I could have counted, but has only skied with me a handful of times. Part ofthis is because hes a blue heeler german shepard mix, so being stocky, with small paws, and not super long legs, deep pow isnt easy for him, but more than that, dogs are just very limited in what they can do in snow. Too steep in firm snow and its real hard on their bodies to run down, too deep of snow and they really struggle getting across the flats, spring snow can tear up their pads, etc etc etc.

Run and mnt bike with him for an entire summer till hes beastly and strong before you even think of taking him on tours. You can have a dog thats a reliable mnt biking buddy but skiing with dogs is a novelety.

[splat]

Honestly, I am dying to get my dog out in the snow but I think I'll have to buy a van just to get him to get in a vehicle. I took him swimming and he didn't want to leave the lake, so as I was lifting him into the back of my Jeep, the hatch door fell on his head. He has quite a memory and now associates the Jeep with pain. When my knee was all fukked, I was going to harness him up and use him to pull me uphill.
He's 150 lb. of lightening fast muscle.

[Chainsaw_Willie]

Just take it easy on the little guy for the next few months since you don't know how old he is. As has been said, nothing wrong with shorter, more mellow tours. It's the miles of running or a full day of pounding or wallowing through snow that can be dangerous. Puppies gotta run and play just like kids, but you don't want to be forcing them or doing anything that will really work them hard for long periods.

Also, keep an eye on his paws. Crusty, icy, and spring conditions tear Jack's paws all to hell. I bought him some cheap booties to wear when the snow is crusty, icy, or really granulated like in the spring. I tried getting him the ones from the pet stores first but they always fell off and got lost and at $30 or more for a set of them it was just unaffordable. Then I found these. They're nothing fancy, basically just a lightweight cordura pouch with a stretchy velcro closure and you could easily make them yourself if you're handy with a sewing machine, but at that price why bother. I ordered 8 anticipating losing one or two or them wearing through. Never lost any, they stay on pretty well but did wear holes in a couple after a few day-long tours. Get the lightweight ones in that link, the heavier ones they have won't let him get as good of traction on harder surfaces.

[powdork]

I think it depends on the dog to some extent, My dog loves snow but make a miserable touring partner. She wants to walk right behind me and Im afraid Im going to cut her feet. After an hour her paws fill up with snow dingleberries and I have to clean them out. On the down hill (in deep snow) she wants to follow my skin track as opposed to ripping the pow. Granted last year was deep, alot and I never got her out in spring conditions. Bit Ive decided against trying to mimic Gimpys set up, and at the same time admire his dogs ability.

prolly one of the big moments in my decision, even though it as almost 3 years ago. buddy and gimpy

[userA]

awesome water bowl

[splat]

Is that Woods Creek?



I was skiing out there once with about three feet of fresh and took Otis, my Jack Russel along and he was swimming in the water, then tunneling through the pow when we crossed a snow bridge. For a short hair dog like yours looks to be, pw, he never seemed to get cold. Though he did get tired of the deep snow and learned to stand on the tails of TeleRob's skis while we were skinning and get a free ride.

Your dog's claws will likely never need to be trimmed again, given the level of outdoor activity he'll get with you. Those claws aren't exactly crampons, so they won't hold well on ice, but should grip well on most semi-hard snow.

[powdork]

that's the upper truckee with flagpole peak in the background

[Chainsaw_Willie]

Hey Powdork, you might like the first 40 seconds or so of this video:



I just wish he'd left the camera on for a few seconds longer and got Jack catching up to us.

Also, it seems like Vimeo has radically compressed this video. Do they do that to older videos to save space? It didn't have all the pixelation/compression artifacts when it was first posted. You can't even make Jack out running into the frame in the last couple of seconds.

[powdork]

i think maybe you were watching the sd version instead of hd. looks fine to me.

[Chainsaw_Willie]

Looks fine now, too. Earlier it was taking forever to buffer, so maybe some internet weirdness going on.

[powdork]

the problem with nacho is this. his master is a moron. was gonna take him to skunk harbor for a nice afternoon and watch the sunset. it's about 1 mile round trip on a good fire road. halfway down i decided to detour through rattlesnake canyon and then work my way back along the shoreline to skunk harbor. i prolly should have consulted a map first. ended up being a 6 mile loop plus extra to avoid private property on lands end road. it also involved about three miles of bushwhack, much in the dark, much with me carrying the dog. it was a sufferfest for the both of us, but i think we're closer now. besides, he's gonna have to learn to enjoy the sufferfests cuz apparently its how i roll.