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  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    ^^Having done the whole FKS + Speed Radical/Plum combo, I've come to a few conclusions:

    1. Dual-use touring/inbounds boots are just not for me. Nothing with AT capability on the market has the fit, stiffness, or flex quality of a dedicated alpine boot.
    2. Dual-use touring/inbounds skis are just not for me. Almost anything I'd want to tour on is too light to have fun skiing inbounds. I can only think of one or two exceptions, and they're on the heavier side of reasonable.
    100% agree. The do it all boot fantasy just doesn't really pan out unfortunately. Maybe on perfect powder days but on an average day it's really not very fun. But it all depends on what you expect from your gear.

  2. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    100% agree. The do it all boot fantasy just doesn't really pan out unfortunately. Maybe on perfect powder days but on an average day it's really not very fun.
    I too came to that painful (and expensive) realization.

    In more relevant skis; I'm excited to mount my own fucking skis again this year.

  3. #528
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    Okay what about...

    • A high end tour boot like a Vulcan / Mercury / Maestrale RS that supposedly compromises nothing on the up or down.
    • A fat do it all fun resort / powder ski that is light enough to tour, eg DPS Wailer Pure 3.
    • Radical Toe with 3 different adjustable heights, with either/or: Plum Guide Heel for brakeless light touring, or Radical FT/ST heel for braked.
    • Swappable with Marker Lord S.P., adjusted to accommodate boots above. Or drag along favorite alpine boots.


    All of this mix and matchable depending on what you want to do for the day.

    Here's what I got so far.

    A big whopper of a toe lift on a SollyFit plate, all the way to 48mm and with enough hole spacing in the toe area for inserts for an alpine binding.
    Looks like almost 0 delta/ramp. Would be less, maybe even negative at this height with Plum Guide:



    Three options for raising the toe, done with removable parts and stainless steel metric screws: 36mm no plates, 42.5mm one plate, or as above, 48mm (two plates):



    Two of the three crampon daggers still bite. Climbing riser with the Radical has lost a bit but probably okay. Can buy lifts from B&D.
    (Note this old FT sucks and probably won't be used. Just testing.)



    Anyway back to the fucking mounting business.
    Can't wait to punch hoes and do inserts, but its been a while since I swiss cheesed a ski, so gonna do several wood mounts first before touching the DPS.
    Last edited by Ivan Oder; 08-21-2014 at 09:13 PM.

  4. #529
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    Nov 2006
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by tavis View Post
    I'm mounting skis with inserts. No epoxy, but I do have Marine Goop. Has anyone used it for inserts? Since it doesn't dry hard, I'm not sure it will hold when I want to remove the bindings, on the other hand, there isn't much clearance in the threads, so a little flexibility may not matter.
    I have always used slow cure epoxy for inserts... but have used marine goop for regular mounts and quick ski repairs. I love the stuff. fwiw outdoor goop is basically the same stuff... sometimes comes in a bigger bottle for cheaper.

  5. #530
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    This is the epoxy I use:
    http://www.mcmaster.com/#7538A31

    Wide temperature range, 3 hour set time, 7 DAY cure time. If you're doing a dual mount like me, it takes a minimum of two weeks.

    For absolute no-spinners (unless you fucked up your drilling/tapping) this is the stuff to use if you have the patience for it.

  6. #531
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    563
    I apologize for a couple JONGy questions, but I would really appreciate the input.

    Experience level: Mounted tons of skis in shops in the past, but always with a jig. So we will rank me as a tech gaper/worse than a JONG.

    Size: 6'4" 180lbs, 336 BSL (standard alpine soles), finesse skier opposed to power, most skis are in the 185-196cm range. Next pair up for mounting are ON3P Kartels. I'd really like to not fuck those up.

    1. I'm switching to a new model of binding, the Salomon STH 2 WTR 13. For years I've been moving a couple pairs of S912ti to new skis. I know it's only a mid level binding, but it's served me well. I tend to ski smoothly and at a low DIN, a 9. I haven't had significant prerelease problems or anything like that. I also generally prefer a 9 when I use Looks. Is it fair to assume a 9 DIN on a WTR 13 is fairly close, and therefore a good starting point?

    2. Amazon has Roo Glue for $14 (16oz). It's kind of expensive, but 16oz should last a lifetime if I remember to put the cap on. I've always used glue at shops (without any issues). All my epoxy experience is in repairs not mounts. I'll probably be doing a couple mounts a year for my household, all standard alpine mounts (no inserts... yet). Searching around the internet shows type of glue is hotly debated. The results range from "Use cum" to "Glue? What glue?!" with a variety of products in between. I trust TGR more than most; Whats your consensus on Roo Glue?

    3. We all know how shops use drivers (spinners!), but I'm trying to do a better job than they do. I have a shitty corded Ryobi drill with clutch or a Posi #3 screwdriver. The torque settings are 2-20 (plus one labeled drill), but I have no clue what each setting translates to in ft/lbs. What torque setting should I use, or should I just hand screw?

    I think got the rest pretty well set up. I'm going to do some dry runs on 2x4s and then use some Lexan sheeting to make a template for faster future mounts. I have digital calipers (measure 3 times, and then again), a proper Tognar 3.6x9mm bit, etc. If anything I think I'm overdoing it, I'm just nervous without a jig holding my hand.

  7. #532
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    ^^^ Can't speak to roo glue, I usually just use waterproof titebond 2 or 3 cause that's what I have laying around and it's been fine for me.

    In terms of the screw gun, I'd say skip it. Doesn't take that long to hand screw and it does a better job, IMO. Just push down hard for the first few turns so the threads cut into the core nicely.

    Good call on the Lexan sheets. I've done the same with some Luan and it makes everything nice and easy.

  8. #533
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    563
    I ordered the glue. Can always send it back if someone else scares me off it. Sounds fairly similar to Titebond anyway (I'm not a chemist, so that could be way off).

    Hand tighten, noted.

    Thanks

  9. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGortex View Post
    I apologize for a couple JONGy questions, but I would really appreciate the input.

    Experience level: Mounted tons of skis in shops in the past, but always with a jig. So we will rank me as a tech gaper/worse than a JONG.

    Size: 6'4" 180lbs, 336 BSL (standard alpine soles), finesse skier opposed to power, most skis are in the 185-196cm range. Next pair up for mounting are ON3P Kartels. I'd really like to not fuck those up.

    1. I'm switching to a new model of binding, the Salomon STH 2 WTR 13. For years I've been moving a couple pairs of S912ti to new skis. I know it's only a mid level binding, but it's served me well. I tend to ski smoothly and at a low DIN, a 9. I haven't had significant prerelease problems or anything like that. I also generally prefer a 9 when I use Looks. Is it fair to assume a 9 DIN on a WTR 13 is fairly close, and therefore a good starting point?

    2. Amazon has Roo Glue for $14 (16oz). It's kind of expensive, but 16oz should last a lifetime if I remember to put the cap on. I've always used glue at shops (without any issues). All my epoxy experience is in repairs not mounts. I'll probably be doing a couple mounts a year for my household, all standard alpine mounts (no inserts... yet). Searching around the internet shows type of glue is hotly debated. The results range from "Use cum" to "Glue? What glue?!" with a variety of products in between. I trust TGR more than most; Whats your consensus on Roo Glue?

    3. We all know how shops use drivers (spinners!), but I'm trying to do a better job than they do. I have a shitty corded Ryobi drill with clutch or a Posi #3 screwdriver. The torque settings are 2-20 (plus one labeled drill), but I have no clue what each setting translates to in ft/lbs. What torque setting should I use, or should I just hand screw?

    I think got the rest pretty well set up. I'm going to do some dry runs on 2x4s and then use some Lexan sheeting to make a template for faster future mounts. I have digital calipers (measure 3 times, and then again), a proper Tognar 3.6x9mm bit, etc. If anything I think I'm overdoing it, I'm just nervous without a jig holding my hand.
    1. 9 is actually perfect for the STH2 WTR 13 -- it's exactly in the middle of the adjustment range of 5 to 13.

    2. Is it this glue? http://www.tognar.com/roo-ski-binding-glue-2oz/
    I've never used that particular brand, but it seems like it would be up to the task.

    3. The best way to not fuck up mounting is to not take shop shortcuts and do everything by hand, be patient, think about what you're doing and double check everything along the way and enjoy the experience with a few beers. No need to rush, take your time.
    Only use a drill to make your holes, use a proper drill bit that has a built in stop and volcano remover. You can even get a thread tap bit for wood if you want, and you may need it if you have metal skis.
    I don't generally make jigs for myself because I get more accurate holes with just taping the paper templates to skis.

    When I do practice wood mounts, I use a small battery powered driver with a clutch -- this one: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-TEK...53LK/202351930

    I still use a standard posi screw driver on the real ski though. Nothing beats the satisfaction of hearing and feeling that core material go crunch as you mount your own fucking bindings.

  10. #535
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    Dec 2009
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    563
    I meant to ask if a WRT 2 "9" DIN setting is comparable to a s912 "9" DIN. I don't know if they updated the torque specs in the past few years. This is two product generations (or three?) since my binding have been on the market.

    That's the glue. Amazon was cheaper, and I didn't feel like I really needed to send Tognar extra money just to keep it core after buying a $20 drill bit.

    I had the older dark blue version of that drill. Switched over to a corded model instead of replacing the batteries after they kicked the bucket. It's not actually that shitty for around the house, but still a long ways off top of the line stuff. http://m.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-3-8-i...7CK/100485417/

    Thanks for the tips. I'll have to tape a post it note above my bench: "SLOW DOWN".

  11. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Oder View Post
    Okay what about...

    • A high end tour boot like a Vulcan / Mercury / Maestrale RS that supposedly compromises nothing on the up or down.
    • A fat do it all fun resort / powder ski that is light enough to tour, eg DPS Wailer Pure 3.
    It feels like I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'll reiterate that IMO there is NO boot that "compromises nothing on the up or down." That's just marketing spew. I've owned the Vulcan, Maestrale RS, and OG Cochise 120. Leavenworth Skier spent considerable time on the Vulcans. Dunno about Bobcat Sig, but it sounds like he's speaking from personal experience, too. None of the boots you listed ski or fit like an alpine/race boot. But, as was said above, it all depends on what you expect from your gear.

    Anyway, not trying to start anything, just my $0.02. Don't let our opinions dampen your enthusiasm, though. Really hope you enjoy the new setup!
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    It feels like I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'll reiterate that IMO there is NO boot that "compromises nothing on the up or down." That's just marketing spew. I've owned the Vulcan, Maestrale RS, and OG Cochise 120. Leavenworth Skier spent considerable time on the Vulcans. Dunno about Bobcat Sig, but it sounds like he's speaking from personal experience, too. None of the boots you listed ski or fit like an alpine/race boot. But, as was said above, it all depends on what you expect from your gear.

    Anyway, not trying to start anything, just my $0.02. Don't let our opinions dampen your enthusiasm, though. Really hope you enjoy the new setup!
    I would agree with that. The Cochise has been as close as it gets to both. Still, you sacrifice both. I have the Maestrale RS because it's better on the up and gets me down, well enough.

  13. #538
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    ^^Agree 100%. Maybe the newer Cochise comes closer with increased heel hold (my chief complaint), but I still don't plan to give up race boots anytime soon.

    I personally found the Maestrale RS too soft and ended up upgraded to the Vulcan. I've only skied the Vulcans a couple times on corn so far, but initial impressions are VERY favorable for the tourability to downhill performance tradeoff. Lack of progression is the main complaint, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

    Anyway, back to the ski mounting! I ended up picking up a JigaRex. Just got tired of how long it took to do mounts with a Dynalook toe with tech heel. Will report back with how much time (if any) it saves.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  14. #539
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    Finished the dual mount tonight. Thanks everyone for your input!

    Cleanest most accurate one I've ever done and easy to swap, with no boot sole switching. (Unless I want to.)

    I didn't like the looks of the boot heel resting only on the heel pins so I added the plum heel puck, which will provide for a better flat tour option and support if I decide to raise the toe any further.
    If it sucks, I can remove it, add or remove toe height etc... Options, versatility, etc... The Lord accommodates the Maestraele RS with a bit of sole grinding.

    In the event that inbounds on touring boots sucks and I find my self wishing for my alpine boots, a minute with a hex wrench and I'm in business.
    If the weird removable Lord toe ends up sucking/falling off, I should be able grab a Jester from the nearest ski shop, drop it in there at lunch and go ski. (need to get some Jester screws.)

    Both the alpine and tech options will accommodate boots 306-320 so I can put any of my current boots into it if the 'one' boot thing doesn't really pan out.
    I'm not sure how much the tech bindings weigh but there are only two plastic parts, the toe lever and the Plum shell.

    And finally, if the Plum just doesn't work out, I can pull that off and toss on any of the Radical heels.



    I was kind of secretly hoping that the new Marker Kingpin binding would have the same mounting pattern as the rest of the Royal family.
    Last edited by Ivan Oder; 09-02-2014 at 07:25 PM.

  15. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post

    Anyway, back to the ski mounting! I ended up picking up a JigaRex. Just got tired of how long it took to do mounts with a Dynalook toe with tech heel. Will report back with how much time (if any) it saves.
    That's a sweet looking tool. Official Dynafit jigs are $$$. If I find myself doing more standard woodscrew/glue mounts for friends and family, I'm going to get one.

  16. #541
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    PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

    EDIT. wrong post. Delete.

  17. #542
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    Here are some quick shots showing the current Jigarex plate design, the drill bushings are seriously beefy. (Is there not an official Jigarex thread in Tech Talk? I only see the two in Gearswap.)

    Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #543
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    I like that it has pins to measure the 'real' BSL instead of whatever might be misprinted on the boot.

  19. #544
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    Nov 2011
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    Worked with an engineer friend today who was mounting his first pair of Dynafit bindings. After deciding not to buy a jig and that he didn't trust a shop, he came up with a pretty clever solution. He attached the bindings onto his boots, as they would be while mounted, and then scanned the whole thing with the boot sitting up on a flatbed scanner. He analyzed the image, finding the distances between the holes using software, and also the distance between the heel and toe holes, thereby generating XY coordinates for all the holes relative to the center line of the ski. He then put a ski bit in a CNC mill, found the center line using a feature of the mill, punched in the coordinates, and boom, done, perfect mount, didn't need to adjust anything.

  20. #545
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    Yah...

    Now if I could only remember which pocket I left my CAD CNC mill in...
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialist View Post
    They have socalized healthcare up in canada. The whole country is 100% full of pot smoking pro-athlete alcoholics.

  21. #546
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    Mar 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by dark_star View Post
    Worked with an engineer friend today who was mounting his first pair of Dynafit bindings. After deciding not to buy a jig and that he didn't trust a shop, he came up with a pretty clever solution. He attached the bindings onto his boots, as they would be while mounted, and then scanned the whole thing with the boot sitting up on a flatbed scanner. He analyzed the image, finding the distances between the holes using software, and also the distance between the heel and toe holes, thereby generating XY coordinates for all the holes relative to the center line of the ski. He then put a ski bit in a CNC mill, found the center line using a feature of the mill, punched in the coordinates, and boom, done, perfect mount, didn't need to adjust anything.
    Sounds like this dude just streamlined and revolutionized the boot/binding to ski mounting interface.
    Good bye ski shop, hello machine shop!
    You think that CNC mill can lay some sweet structure on my bases?

  22. #547
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    Apr 2005
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    well if i'm put out of that aspect of da bidness by the clever kissless , enginerders
    so b it.
    so bout how long did the hightech mount take? - the part where you chemically forumlate and create the opimtum screw lubricant and adhesive watersealent compound?
    fwiw if you need a mount in ski city feel free to contact me and i'll let you use my much lower tech shit to help facilitate this worthy psa.
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  23. #548
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  24. #549
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    obviusly not mad enough to search the webz to see if sum prepubescent teen made a cool story bro meme i could use
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  25. #550
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    Boston
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    Rest assured that that was just one weapon in my GIF arsenal.

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