Thread: Hiring good people is hard.

In my experience hiring good people isn't hard if you yourself are a good person. Maybe you are just an incompetent fuck and so you suck at hiring. Free market dude. Good people gravitate to people who aren't losers. If you can't hire good people it's your own fault.

Originally Posted by BurnHard

Trying to hire smart, intelligent software engineers and/or testers, degreed & non, for anywhere from $40k to $70k salaries. To begin with, very small applicant pool

Gee, I wonder why with such a fantastic wage.

DBS is still dumber than a box of rocks. The startup advancement story = bullshit. People realize that now.

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

THIS.

Paying college grads 11/hr? LOL

After taxes I couldn't even pay my monthly bills!

Originally Posted by Blurred

THIS.

Paying college grads 11/hr? LOL

After taxes I couldn't even pay my monthly bills!

Of course you could. That's at least 20k, even if you only work 40 hours. Ten bucks a day on food(I've lived on much, much less), figure a grand a year for a car(which is actually a luxury-I have biked 15 miles to work every day and from what I know boulder has decent public trans), a hundred or so a year for basic phone(magicjack or whatever is way less than that) that leaves well over a grand a month for rent and utilities, which is about TWICE what you need. I could and have paid off debt/paid into savings making that kind of money, and that was in desirable locations and not taking any public assistance which you could probably qualify for. He said they qualify for bennies but you could certainly afford a hundred a month for insurance too

Originally Posted by nutcase

In my experience hiring good people isn't hard if you yourself are a good person. Maybe you are just an incompetent fuck and so you suck at hiring. Free market dude. Good people gravitate to people who aren't losers. If you can't hire good people it's your own fault.

Worthless to argue with. That's way too generic a statement. I agree that shitty companies will attract shitty people. And vice versa. But the problem remains. My previous company = shitty company, attracted shitty people, hiring was hard, and compelled me to quit after only 8 months despite taking a financial hit. Current company, awesome company, attracts a lot of awesome people (currently employed), and still attracts a lot of shitty people that takes time to weed through and are the majority of applicants.

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

Gee, I wonder why with such a fantastic wage.

Is my sarcasm meter broken?

$40k for a relatively unskilled 'tech' guy with little-to-no experience and no degree seems like a fair wage to me.

$70k for a degreed engineer with 1-3 years of experience also seems like a fair wage...

Originally Posted by Blurred

After taxes I couldn't even pay my monthly bills!

THIS ... the problem is too many taxes, everywhere, for everything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax FTW!

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

Gee, I wonder why with such a fantastic wage.

DBS is still dumber than a box of rocks. The startup advancement story = bullshit. People realize that now.

A kid I grew up with hooked up with microsoft when he graduated in the early eighties. He worked for 5 years for relative peanuts and stock. Retired at 28. Millions and Millions.

Originally Posted by BurnHard

In your same exact shoes. With my current company, and the company before. Both just outside of Boulder. Trying to hire smart, intelligent software engineers and/or testers, degreed & non, for anywhere from $40k to $70k salaries. To begin with, very small applicant pool. I thought people are out of jobs, we expected a flood of applications ... nope. Second, very underwhelming applicant pool. Lot of dumb people, lot of people with a degree but nothing to show for it, lot of people with a degree and some very very basic skills who we would've hired but who weren't willing to do the 'grunt' work to work their way up. Incredible.
Definitely the #1 complaint from me: too many DUMB people.

Speaking as a software engineer living in Boulder, I think the unemployment rate for competent developers in Boulder County is ~ 0.1%. Everybody I know in the business that is worth a damn has more work than they can handle (me included, so why I am I wasting time on PolyAssHat?? procrastination of course). Contract software hourly rates in Boulder County go up from about $75 an hour, so your posted salaries would not be very interesting for experienced people.

So I don't think the software situation has much to do with the OP's $11/hr job. Simple fact is that in an affluent community, most people can find more worthwhile uses for their time than that.

And the "up-side potential" of start-ups is usually a mirage. As I know well, I worked for 7 different start-ups, got useless options at 5, cashed out reasonably on 2, but I can never get back the hours I did not spend with my kids growing up. Now I choose the ~30 hours a week of contract software development versus the ~60 hours a week of start-up life without a second thought.

Funny how right-wingers are all about the market's invisible hand omnisciently
regulating supply and demand, until the hand tells them that their wages are too low. Then they forget about the market's perfection and start talking about lazy people.

Originally Posted by tommyvee

And the "up-side potential" of start-ups is usually a mirage. As I know well, I worked for 7 different start-ups, got useless options at 5, cashed out reasonably on 2, but I can never get back the hours I did not spend with my kids growing up. Now I choose the ~30 hours a week of contract software development versus the ~60 hours a week of start-up life without a second thought.

I was thinking of "growth potential" more in the lines of advancement, etc. Much more common now to hire already skilled talent than to promote within for a good startup, tighter controls on wages and given how hitek wants to join the 1% he can't get there by handing out hefty option packages to $11/hr CSRs....

So, I'll chip in.

My jr. associate (financial analysis) was let go two weeks ago due to mandatory cut-backs. Within a week she had two job offers for $125k/yr. She's 24.
To me, it goes to show that if you're smart (high GPA from Duke) and hard working (she worked 70+ hours/week, even though I told her to not work so much), there is plenty of opportunity out there.
So get off your @sses, stop whining, and get a job.

Originally Posted by St. Jerry

So, I'll chip in.

My jr. associate (financial analysis) was let go two weeks ago due to mandatory cut-backs. Within a week she had two job offers for $125k/yr. She's 24.
To me, it goes to show that if you're smart (high GPA from Duke) and hard working (she worked 70+ hours/week, even though I told her to not work so much), there is plenty of opportunity out there.
So get off your @sses, stop whining, and get a job.

Great skiing when you work 70+hrs a week on the East Coast.

Seriously what is it with finance people always bragging about the long hours they (and coworkers) work online during business hours?

you hire someone w/ a degree for $11/hour they will spend all their free time looking for a career. Be prepared to train them, introduce them to industry contacts, and watch them walk.
I would bet that within 6 months you'll be back here complaining about the lack of loyalty of today's generation.

I know people with degrees who were turned down from low paying work because the employer believed they wouldn't stick around.

Originally Posted by tommyvee

Funny how right-wingers are all about the market's invisible hand omnisciently
regulating supply and demand, until the hand tells them that their wages are too low. Then they forget about the market's perfection and start talking about lazy people.

That makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

That makes no sense.

exactly...

I thought you libs were against anybody making any real money. Make up your mind. And yeah, the sense of entitlement permeating this country is truly stunning. Result of 40 yrs. of gimme gimme gimme!

Originally Posted by St. Jerry

So, I'll chip in.

My jr. associate (financial analysis) was let go two weeks ago due to mandatory cut-backs. Within a week she had two job offers for $125k/yr. She's 24.
To me, it goes to show that if you're smart (high GPA from Duke) and hard working (she worked 70+ hours/week, even though I told her to not work so much), there is plenty of opportunity out there.
So get off your @sses, stop whining, and get a job.

How is this relevant to the current discussion? How does a generic college grad go from an $11 dollar an hour customer service job to a high paying position working in finance?

Consider the sequence of events that took your associate from grade school → junior high → high school → Duke → graduation with honors → entry level position in finance → to the goal state of $125k per year @ 24 and then apply that to the general population distribution for intelligence and for parental income.


There's no denying that opportunities abound for students graduating from top schools or even students with excellent grades from mid tier schools but technology is changing the job market for graduates from less prestigious schools who in the past, might not have needed a degree at all, and would have still found good high potential, high upside entry level positions.



The answer to the questions: if a kid starts early and works very hard in a good school and focuses really hard on academics and on extracurricular activities and there aren't too many people who aren't just a little bit better every step of the way then that person will have incredible opportunities that far outpace the vast majority of the population and he or she can be whatever they want to be.

Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople

I thought you libs were against anybody making any real money. Make up your mind. And yeah, the sense of entitlement permeating this country is truly stunning. Result of 40 yrs. of gimme gimme gimme!

You "thought", but you were wrong (as usual). No liberals that I have met are against people earning lots of money, but only ask that high earners pay taxes and give back to society commensurate with the benefits that society has bestowed on them.

Conservatives are so confused on this issue, crying about "limousine liberals",etc., but there is no contradiction between succeeding in the capitalist system, and wanting that system to provide a safety net for the unfortunate, along with investment in the health, education, and productivity of the general populace. Plenty of smart people from Warren Buffet to Bill Gates, have made plenty of money but still want an inclusive humane society, that provides real opportunity and social mobility.

It is interesting that the social welfare states of Europe are now delivering more social mobility than the supposed "opportunity society" in the US. A child of poor parents is more likely to remain poor himself in the US than in countries with supposedly less of a "free market".
http://www.tuac.org/en/public/e-docs...ment_doc.phtml
"It reveals that intergenerational earning, wage and educational mobility vary widely across OECD countries. The study found that social mobility between generations tends to be lower in more unequal societies. Mobility in earnings, wages and education across generations is relatively low in France, southern European countries, the United Kingdom and the United States. By contrast, such mobility tends to be higher in Australia, Canada and the Nordic countries. That is to say that it is easier to climb the social ladder and earn more than one’s parents in the Nordic countries, Australia and Canada than in France, Italy, Britain and the United States."

Originally Posted by tommyvee

You "thought", but you were wrong (as usual). No liberals that I have met are against people earning lots of money, but only ask that high earners pay taxes and give back to society commensurate with the benefits that society has bestowed on them.

Conservatives are so confused on this issue, crying about "limousine liberals",etc., but there is no contradiction between succeeding in the capitalist system, and wanting that system to provide a safety net for the unfortunate, along with investment in the health, education, and productivity of the general populace. Plenty of smart people from Warren Buffet to Bill Gates, have made plenty of money but still want an inclusive humane society, that provides real opportunity and social mobility.

It is interesting that the social welfare states of Europe are now delivering more social mobility than the supposed "opportunity society" in the US. A child of poor parents is more likely to remain poor himself in the US than in countries with supposedly less of a "free market".
http://www.tuac.org/en/public/e-docs...ment_doc.phtml
"It reveals that intergenerational earning, wage and educational mobility vary widely across OECD countries. The study found that social mobility between generations tends to be lower in more unequal societies. Mobility in earnings, wages and education across generations is relatively low in France, southern European countries, the United Kingdom and the United States. By contrast, such mobility tends to be higher in Australia, Canada and the Nordic countries. That is to say that it is easier to climb the social ladder and earn more than one’s parents in the Nordic countries, Australia and Canada than in France, Italy, Britain and the United States."

The difference is that some people want to belong to and contribute to a community, while some people want to take capitalism to its extreme end and live in a society that is every man for himself/fuck your neighbor and burn his house to the ground.

Originally Posted by doughboyshredder

Your attitude is representative of the other side of the exact same coin that Mott the hopple is on.

The powers that be are succeeding in their continued attempt to polarize our nation with bullshit. Tea Party / Occupy. It's all about polarization, and with that polarization nothing will be accomplished.

Polar opposite??? One side is far right, while Socialist's post is slight left of center; certainly not far left. Hardly polar opposite.

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

Of course you could. That's at least 20k, even if you only work 40 hours. Ten bucks a day on food(I've lived on much, much less), figure a grand a year for a car(which is actually a luxury-I have biked 15 miles to work every day and from what I know boulder has decent public trans), a hundred or so a year for basic phone(magicjack or whatever is way less than that) that leaves well over a grand a month for rent and utilities, which is about TWICE what you need. I could and have paid off debt/paid into savings making that kind of money, and that was in desirable locations and not taking any public assistance which you could probably qualify for. He said they qualify for bennies but you could certainly afford a hundred a month for insurance too

You forgot the student loan payment. Thats whats killing myself and everyone else who graduated 07 or later. Our costs for school were astronomical, and they are only worse now. It wasnt just tuition either. Go into a college bookstore these days and you'll shit your pants. People who graduated in the late 90's paid 1/2 the tuition we did on average. HALF.

Its easy for a previous graduate to sit and lament how we should be working for ten or eleven bucks an hour, when its just not possible with student loans these days. I have 37k in debt and luckily have a good job, but its tough when you have anywhere between 1000-1500 bucks a month needed take home to cover just rent and student loans, and that doesnt even cover food, utilities, some form of transportation (you cant bike everywhere in winter), and some form of communication. Try doing that on 11 bucks an hour with no benefits to start (its a startup and claim benis will come, but they could also go belly up as well and leave you with jack shit and wasted time). And thats only if your entire life is devoted to work. 11 bucks an hour is 1760 a month, more like 1600 take home. Could you live your life of 1600 bucks a month? Good luck when anything unexpected happens.

Start-ups can rock if you have good vision, and it doesn't have to be Microsoft or Google

18 years ago, I was hired in a start-up company with no benefits and no salary. 100% commision. I eventually became a 25% partner, sold my share, and still work there with full bennies and a pretty good income.

Originally Posted by doughboyshredder

simple question. Is 11.00 an hour better than zero dollars an hour? Is it better than public assistance?

What do you make per hour on public assistance in Boulder CO?

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Start-ups can rock if you have good vision, and it doesn't have to be Microsoft or Google

18 years ago, I was hired in a start-up company with no benefits and no salary. 100% commision. I eventually became a 25% partner, sold my share, and still work there with full bennies and a pretty good income.

HEY GRANDPA GOT ANYTHING FROM THIS DECADE DIPSHIT!

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Start-ups can rock if you have good vision, and it doesn't have to be Microsoft or Google

18 years ago, I was hired in a start-up company with no benefits and no salary. 100% commision. I eventually became a 25% partner, sold my share, and still work there with full bennies and a pretty good income.

Lolz. Not that long ago you started a thread crying about the fact that your company was closing its doors and how you lost your job, part of the "Downbound Train" e-persona, all because of Obama and now you're claiming to be a partner in your company having worked there for 18 years.

Polyass-hattery: a place where washed up Walter Mitty's get to create alternate realities for how their lives might have been if only those meddling libs hadn't ruined everything.

I wouldn't take a job for $11/hr, you almost make more collecting unemployment

Why not work at wal mart or something for that kind of money? Seriously... 11/hr is shit, especially for college grads.

Originally Posted by Triage

Lolz. Not that long ago you started a thread crying about the fact that your company was closing its doors and how you lost your job, part of the "Downbound Train" e-persona, all because of Obama and now you're claiming to be a partner in your company having worked there for 18 years.

Polyass-hattery: a place where washed up Walter Mitty's get to create alternate realities for how their lives might have been if only those meddling libs hadn't ruined everything.

Re-opened with new owners dipshit. Good memory though.