Thread: Hiring good people is hard.

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

you were the one talking about all of the successful engineers

and you are saying the fact that they dont go to law school means they arent successful?

i said most people with BAs have no marketable skills, nor the ability to get into a decent law school. feel free to dispute what i ACTUALLY said

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

It's awesome how stupid you are

if only we had a society where ZERO people actually contributed anything that added value, and instead only leeched like you do - thats a recipe for success!

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

if only we had a society where ZERO people actually contributed anything that added value, and instead only leeched

sounds like a skitown

Interview older people that have been laid off or have some experience. Hiring recent college grads is a dice roll for non-professional entry level.

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

logic fail

all a's are b

are all b's a?

Law school is pretty much all liberal arts and majors in soft social sciences, dude. That's what they do: go to law school. There are several reasons for this, but here they are: 1.) liberal arts majors and law school use pretty much the same skill set. you sit there and read for comprehension, and then spew some bs onto an occasional paper. 2.) liberal arts majors tend to be disproportionately represented at the best schools. law schools like people with brand name BAs. 3.) there is a low opportunity cost in going to law school for liberal arts majors. would you rather work for $11 an hour for the op in this thread or go back to law school so you can buy and sell chumps like him? 4.) law school is very expensive. liberal arts majors at the best schools are probably getting their education bankrolled by mom and dad at a disproportionately high rate, so they are less likely to be worried about their ability to service their student loan debt if they wash out at a biglaw firm.

But I'm sure your jerkwater community college degree has you well-prepared for the job market. Keep that in mind when the double Harvard guy with a degree in underwater basket-weaving and a JD buys your jerkwater employer with his pe firm and flushes your job down the toilet.

Originally Posted by Sirshredalot

Law school is pretty much all liberal arts and majors in soft social sciences, dude. That's what they do: go to law school. There are several reasons for this, but here they are: 1.) liberal arts majors and law school use pretty much the same skill set. you sit there and read for comprehension, and then spew some bs onto an occasional paper. 2.) liberal arts majors tend to be disproportionately represented at the best schools. law schools like people with brand name BAs. 3.) there is a low opportunity cost in going to law school for liberal arts majors. would you rather work for $11 an hour for the op in this thread or go back to law school so you can buy and sell chumps like him? 4.) law school is very expensive. liberal arts majors at the best schools are probably getting their education bankrolled by mom and dad at a disproportionately high rate, so they are less likely to be worried about their ability to service their student loan debt if they wash out at a biglaw firm.

But I'm sure your jerkwater community college degree has you well-prepared for the job market. Keep that in mind when the double Harvard guy with a degree in underwater basket-weaving and a JD buys your jerkwater employer with his pe firm and flushes your job down the toilet.

Wow, you really still arent getting this huh? I really have to dumb it down EVEN MORE?

I never said that law schools werent filled with BAs. What I said was that most BAs arent qualified for good law schools. Those are VERY different statements. Ill give you a few days to figure out how.

FYI, my BS is from michigan (and because this board doesnt get it until you hit them in the face with it, yes that is on a tee for you)

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

sounds like a skitown

Have you ever lived in a skitown? What it sounds like is DC and the public sector

Originally Posted by hutash

Wow $11 an hour for a college graduate, and these kids complain that they can't pay off their student loans, hell at that rate they can easily pay them off by 2099

Originally Posted by hitek79

We're a start up, so the growth potential is unlimited for people willing to work as we're growing very quickly.

So zero dollars is better than $11 for a short time?

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

Have you ever lived in a skitown? What it sounds like is DC and the public sector

Have you ever lived in DC?

Originally Posted by hitek79

So zero dollars is better than $11 for a short time?

Maybe they aren't dumb enough to believe "unlimited growth" and know that startups may not be around long.....

Ok, so zero dollars is better than $11 an hour even if it's for a finite amount of time?

Originally Posted by hitek79

Ok, so zero dollars is better than $11 an hour even if it's for a finite amount of time?

better than having a 2 month job on the resume, depending, yes. for $11 an hour your shit doesn't stink. deal with it and plan accordingly.

Originally Posted by hitek79

Ok, so zero dollars is better than $11 an hour even if it's for a finite amount of time?

The official unemployment rate in Boulder County, CO is 6.5% compared to 9-9.1% for the rest of the country. Does your business require access to an educated labor pool in a (relatively) high cost of living location with a relatively low unemployment rate? Because $11 dollars on hour would give you more purchasing power elsewhere.

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

... very few liberal arts majors are smart enough to even get into a decent law school

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

... most people with BAs have no marketable skills, nor the ability to get into a decent law school. ...

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

...most BAs arent qualified for good law schools...

"most" = 51%+???

"decent" = worse than "good"???

"very few" = less than 10%???

I'm having trouble with the goalposts again

Originally Posted by jfost

"most" = 51%+???

"decent" = worse than "good"???

"very few" = less than 10%???

I'm having trouble with the goalposts again

let me help you:

major =/= grad

the rest is pretty clear - decent and good are both pretty subjective words, and especially in the case of law school, where the dropoffs are precipitous, pretty much interchangeable

but thanks for being such a bear for details. you might just be wrestling Pedant of the Month from PNW

well, I disagree with your first contention...

I disagree heartily with your second, and could easily be on board with your third - so I don't think you were saying the same thing there each time. Words are important.

Originally Posted by jfost

well, I disagree with your first contention...

I disagree heartily with your second, and could easily be on board with your third - so I don't think you were saying the same thing there each time. Words are important.

so when someone says "im a math major" that means they have graduated? remember, words are important

as for the rest, i disagree on your interpretation of these subjective words.

doh!

I think there are more smart liberal arts majors than there are places in "decent OR good" law schools.

It takes a real dummy to place so little value on education, but I've managed to be indoctrinated, even though school and I didn't really see eye-to-eye...

Where I specifically DISagree is that "most" people with BA's probably DO have a marketable skill up their sleeve, and may or may not have the ability to get into a "decent" law school located somewhere in the BVI's...

Originally Posted by jfost

doh!

I think there are more smart liberal arts majors than there are places in "decent OR good" law schools.

that may or may not be true but does nothing to disprove my statement

i place plenty of value on education. i also recognize that people who invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into something that provides little return, have made a bad investment

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

...
i place plenty of value on education. i also recognize that people who invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into something that provides little return, have made a bad investment

first line gets a "meh" so I didn't re-quote...

second, I really cannot disagree with - though the "little return" part is subjective. Could not the value be exclusive of "job related economies"? Maybe someone learned to weave baskets, or found a hobby, or figured out they are gay in college. Maybe that happened in a place or time that they could not have replicated in the "real world". I think you were speaking mainly of degree vs. job/career prospects - but people would pay handsomely in South Korea for the kind of access to coed poon that an American dormitory gives you, amirite?

Originally Posted by jfost

first line gets a "meh" so I didn't re-quote...

second, I really cannot disagree with - though the "little return" part is subjective. Could not the value be exclusive of "job related economies"? Maybe someone learned to weave baskets, or found a hobby, or figured out they are gay in college. Maybe that happened in a place or time that they could not have replicated in the "real world". I think you were speaking mainly of degree vs. job/career prospects - but people would pay handsomely in South Korea for the kind of access to coed poon that an American dormitory gives you, amirite?

i dont really see why you have to pay tens/hundreds of thousands to get those things. you pay tuition to get the sheepskin, they let anyone sit in the classes/play hackysack on the quad/have buttsecks

^ hmm, good point. I still think there is something different about being actually enrolled in the school that opens doors...

"dare dorm" is a good example of "finding yourself" in college - though to be fair, those kids probably just lost their chance at a good or even decent law school!

Originally Posted by jfost

"dare dorm" is a good example of "finding yourself" in college - though to be fair, those kids probably just lost their chance at a good or even decent law school!

the other 300 porn films they did before apparently didn't matter

^ don't you ruin that for me Hugh - they are AMATEURS!!!

Originally Posted by hitek79

We're currently trying to hire 3 new people for customer service reps. Pay is $11 an hour. All employees will have some level of benefits in the next 90 days. We're a start up, so the growth potential is unlimited for people willing to work as we're growing very quickly. We're close to Boulder so we've been posting on the CU jobs board. Here's some stuff we've run in to so far.

Called kid and he couldn't remember what job he had applied for with us.

Full voicemail box

Hired one guy, after a month we offered him a full time salaried position with a 20% bump in pay and signing bonus. He lasted 3 months before he decided he thought he was working too many hours (most hours worked in 1 week was 48)

Two separate employees started out fine, but were consistently late, so we had to let them go.

After speaking to probably 12 college students/recent graduates, we've found 3 great employees. It's been disappointing to say the least. So that's my rant. It's not political in a left wing/right wing stance, but it is the reality for a lot of companies out there that are trying to hire from the 99%.

In your same exact shoes. With my current company, and the company before. Both just outside of Boulder. Trying to hire smart, intelligent software engineers and/or testers, degreed & non, for anywhere from $40k to $70k salaries. To begin with, very small applicant pool. I thought people are out of jobs, we expected a flood of applications ... nope. Second, very underwhelming applicant pool. Lot of dumb people, lot of people with a degree but nothing to show for it, lot of people with a degree and some very very basic skills who we would've hired but who weren't willing to do the 'grunt' work to work their way up. Incredible.

Definitely the #1 complaint from me: too many DUMB people.

Originally Posted by doughboyshredder

I hear the same thing regularly. We now have an entire generation of lazy fucks that aren't willing to work hard for success. Hugh epitomized the attitude perfectly in his statement about people not willing to work for 11.00 an hour because they don't believe in the growth potential of the business. Same people have no problem protesting. Worthless scum that don't deserve a penny.

You shouldn't label yourself in such denigrating manner.