Prerelease comparison between G3 Onyx and Dynafit Radical FT

[XXX-er]

Sure you might say you don't notice it skiing, but does the skinny mounting pattern on wide skis contribute to the issue? Wish they would have made a pair with the mounting holes spread out more, but at least the support plate is wider. Maybe this will help lessen the torque on the toe wings with wider skis. This is the main reason I have avoided them until now. These things were invented for skis with less than 80 millimeter waists and haven't adapted to ever increasing ski widths till now.

I bet most of the issues are from people trying to mount these things on 110+ waist skis. Asking for trouble in my opinion.

think about what ski you were on in early 90's think about the boots you were wearing

http://www.wildsnow.com/backcountry-...ding-lite.html

... has the lowtech design reached it's design limit's?

[Knut]

These things were invented for skis with less than 80 millimeter waists and haven't adapted to ever increasing ski widths till now.

So were FKS'. These trusted bomber binders with their equally "skinny" mount width. It's not just the mount footprint.

[LeeLau]

Sorry jackass - this seemed like another stupid question so I reacted.

It's a touring binding. A touring binding in groomers? Who gives a fuck?

anyone have anyother comparisons between G3 and dynafit?

seems like G3 is a bit more convenient to get in/out of ski/walk mode, but a bit more weight to drag around?

More weight.

Holding toe down to step in - stooopid

Easy to switch from ski to ski.

Usually cheaper

Icy groomers are one thing, but who hasn't hit a chalky or chattery spot in a steep line while skiing in less than ideal conditions? This is where I want to be able to trust my equipment with my life. It's a legitimate issue to many or else dynafit wouldn't have tried to mitigate the problem. Overall I'm expecting the Radicals to be an improvement in this department though, can't wait to go skiing.

Lock them out if its steep.

If its powder then don't lock them out and keep it under control.

It's a touring binding then use it mainly for pow. Look I know there's lots of videos of Hoji skiing radgnar but let me perfectly honest with you guys (And I'm not singling out Tone so please don't kill me Tone and please do keep biking with me). To state the obvious, Hoji is on another level. We are all gapers compared to him; stem-christie gapers with arms waving all over the place as you buttslap pillows and rage your mad pow slopes yo. The newer Dynafits might have all sorts of fancy-schmancy carbon cosmestic bridges and doodads but this thing is trimmed down to almost nothing. You're on bare metal pins with metal in your boots. There's almost no elasticity. How can there be? It's basically metal (pins) on metal (bits in your boots). You want something to ski groomers? Get an alpine binding. Keep the dynafits for days you're going for a walk.


I've got no experience on the Radical . I would never buy a binding in its first year. I think you guys who are buying the Radical in the first year and the Plum in its 1st/2nd year are fucking crazy ---- i mean - relentless optimists who should remember to never trust first year production products. First year generation equipment is not to be trusted IMO with perhaps the exception of first year gen products which merely evolve from previous gen products..

and yeah I know I'll probably hear about it from manufacturers who supply me equipment to test.

ah I don't even know why I try. You guys love shiny new things anyway. and I'm part of the crack whores who foist them on you

[Knut]

Strong post.

However, there are a few things I disagree on.

People that say this:

Lock them out if its steep.

will never get this

Holding toe down to step in - stooopid

What's the point of a releasing binding system if you have to deactivate release capability on default? And I can't believe, that I'm somewhat defending the Onyx here.

It's a touring binding then use it mainly for pow.

Really? And go bootpacking when the conditions are bad? The most hard, clattery conditions I normally find while touring, especially late season. I always start to do serious touring, when there are few pow options. Don't forget: it's Europe conditions the TO was talking about.

First year generation equipment is not to be trusted IMO with perhaps the exception of first year gen products which merely evolve from previous gen products.

Isn't that exactly what the Radical is? A mere update of an existing binding? Where we discuss here, whether the minor changes really make a difference at all?

[jackass]

Lee, in our parts of the woods only people who cannot express themselves in normal language, use four letter words. Also, your ability to understand what has been written is poor. I didn't buy tech bindings to ski groomers, but to ascend, mainly to find powder. More than I'd like - like many of us who don't receive free skis to test - I have to ski groomers with my one ski quiver to get to another area of the tiny ski resorts we have in the Alps (Portes de Soleil, Trois Vallees, etc). Nobody in my groups, including the guides I travel/ski with, likes to spend time on the groomers, so they open op the throttle, resulting in some chatter. There are several solutions for me: use other bindings, use skinny skis, decrease my lenght and weight, quit skiing, move to another planet, etc. But trying to get Dynafit to adjust their product for intended use is probably not such a great idea....

[tone capone]

So were FKS'. These trusted bomber binders with their equally "skinny" mount width. It's not just the mount footprint.

You have a good point, but maybe the leverage is different with tech bindings. All conjecture on my part.

and Lee, no worries, I could use some schooling by both yourself and Hoji on the subject, any advice is appreciated. I would be stoked to ski 1/3 as good as him, I just want to be able to do it without the toes locked. Take a long walk, huck some 10/20 footers into perfect pow here and there and have a good time, ya know? Dukes don't prerelease but goddamn, it's like lifting a bowling ball with each step.

[oldboy]

Seems like there is general consensus that the Plum toes are less prone to pre-release. Is this pure conjecture, or has anyone who was experiencing toe ejections on dynafits made the switch to Plum with the problem going away ? Has anyone bench tested it ?

[freak]

ive never had a pre-release on the onyx, while i have to ski the dynafits locked all the time because they come off so easily. that said, i didnt ski the onyx that much yet and only have the oldish tlts, no vertical...

freak~[&]

[SB]

Maybe the OP would be better off on MFD alltime plates with the alpine binder of choice.

[kootenayskier]

Compared to regular alpine bindings, Dynafits maximize touring performance, while providing adequate downhill performance (the same for my touring boots). They're an engineered mechanical system that pretty much works the same way every time. You're either prepared to take the time to learn what they're capable of, and adapt to those limitations, or you're not. The people I ski with, strong technical skiers skiing challenging terrain in all conditions, have found a way to make them work for us. If you won't or can't adapt, you'll just have to use bindings that compromise more on tourability. Know yourself and make your choices.

[GeezerSteve]

FWIW, I'm 6'2", 240+ lbs., often ski with a big pack and I've never prereleased out of Dynafit toes (Comfort, FT, Speed) in hundreds of days, often with firm conditions, including lots of days which included some groomer skiing

There were some defective tech insert toes out the a few years ago

[skimaxpower]

FWIW, my only Dynafit pre-release came from dropping a 10-ish foot cliff onto a mogul. YMMV.

Lee, in our parts of the woods only people who cannot express themselves in normal language, use four letter words. Also, your ability to understand what has been written is poor.

In my part of the woods, bitches show some respect when they're new in the room.

[LeeLau]

jackass,

OK you don't appreciate profanity. That is acceptable but I submit that your comprehension of what is being told you is poor.

Let me blunt. The problem is not the binding. The binding has limitations. The problem exists with you. If you and your skiing partners (including guides) cannot or will not adjust skiing style to adjust to the limitations of the bindings then no amount of attempting to answer your question will help.

In so many words others are telling you the same thing. You refuse to listen. You sound like an eminently disagreeable person who, when given an answer they don't like, re-asks the question in another fashion. I have no patience for this conversation and will do you the courtesy of leaving you to your (lack of) understanding.

Best of luck as it sounds like you will need it.

Lee, in our parts of the woods only people who cannot express themselves in normal language, use four letter words. Also, your ability to understand what has been written is poor. I didn't buy tech bindings to ski groomers, but to ascend, mainly to find powder. More than I'd like - like many of us who don't receive free skis to test - I have to ski groomers with my one ski quiver to get to another area of the tiny ski resorts we have in the Alps (Portes de Soleil, Trois Vallees, etc). Nobody in my groups, including the guides I travel/ski with, likes to spend time on the groomers, so they open op the throttle, resulting in some chatter. There are several solutions for me: use other bindings, use skinny skis, decrease my lenght and weight, quit skiing, move to another planet, etc. But trying to get Dynafit to adjust their product for intended use is probably not such a great idea....

[XXX-er]

well its more than 4 letters but is it just me or does anybody else find it ironic that a guy who calls himself "jackass" gives people a hard time for swearing ?

is "jackass" swearing or just a stubborn animal ?

[GeezerSteve]

Nobody in my groups, including the guides I travel/ski with, likes to spend time on the groomers, so they open op the throttle, resulting in some chatter. There are several solutions for me: use other bindings, use skinny skis, decrease my lenght [sic] and weight, quit skiing, move to another planet, etc.

There's another solution: lock the toe only when you traverse across bumpy groomers. That's much easier than moving to another planet.

[neck beard]

Lee, in our parts of the woods only people who cannot express themselves in normal language, use four letter words.

And yet you called yourself Jackass, Jackass.

On the topic: I am a very light, reasonably fast and smooth skier - so perhaps that makes me Dynafit lucky, but in about 300 days on Dynafits in powder and corn I have 'pre-released' twice - both due to user error. If Dynafits had such a bad design flaw as is being claimed on hard/spring snow, I'd be dead or disabled by now. So would many others. Fingers crossed, ey.

[Blurred]

Why is it so difficult to lock the toe when you're on groomers? Afraid you're gonna beater? LOL

Like Lee has said, the problem lies with you. Learn to ski squarely on your skis.

[kidwoo]

I've chattered down about 1k vert of 45 degree boiler plate in some crappy ass chute I thought would be good to ski with neither of my planks anything but completely 90 degrees to the fall line and my skis stayed on.

Like.....lean forward and shit.

[mountaingoat]

Having worked for two of the tech manufactures, in my experience, almost all of the pre-release problems are the result of poor mounts. The tolerance of the front pins in relation the the rear pins (lateral alignment) are off by just millimeters, they will often pre-release out of the toe for even the smallest of guys/gals. When mounted properly, you can really push them.

I don't have time tonight, but I'll try to post some pics of the good and bad tomorrow night and explain some of the common causes (shop tech) that amplifies the pre-release in the techs.

[Blurred]

Having worked for two of the tech manufactures, in my experience, almost all of the pre-release problems are the result of poor mounts. The tolerance of the front pins in relation the the rear pins (lateral alignment) are off by just millimeters, they will often pre-release out of the toe for even the smallest of guys/gals. When mounted properly, you can really push them.

I don't have time tonight, but I'll try to post some pics of the good and bad tomorrow night and explain some of the common causes (shop tech) that amplifies the pre-release in the techs.

I'd like to see the pics man. Forward pressure and what not

[jackass]

To all the adolescents and adults out there who don't know the role of the male donkey in the history of the North American West: the West would not have been discovered nor developed without male donkeys. As for the nickname 'Jackass': it is a nickname, nothing else, nothing more. Honi soit qui mal y pense.
And as a former pro, I know how to ski, but with my length, weight and strength (try to do one legged squats) my love for Dynafits on the ascend and in the pow just wins it from the prerelease problems. In this case, I think it is quite normal to try to find a (better) hardware solution for the prerelease problems. This forum could help.

To all who responded with content: thanks, greatly appreciated.

[gregL]

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Honni? Shame on he who thinks badly?

You could ask this question on other forums and get an answer from many of the same people without the profanity, but you'd be losing much of the entertainment factor.

[XXX-er]

Having worked for two of the tech manufactures, in my experience, almost all of the pre-release problems are the result of poor mounts. The tolerance of the front pins in relation the the rear pins (lateral alignment) are off by just millimeters, they will often pre-release out of the toe for even the smallest of guys/gals. When mounted properly, you can really push them.

I don't have time tonight, but I'll try to post some pics of the good and bad tomorrow night and explain some of the common causes (shop tech) that amplifies the pre-release in the techs.

how does that come about ... from people just zapping the binding to the ski after using a jig , not checking to see if the boot heel is centered in the rear set of pins in the heel piece ?

[tone capone]

in my experience, almost all of the pre-release problems are the result of poor mounts. The tolerance of the front pins in relation the the rear pins (lateral alignment) are off by just millimeters, they will often pre-release out of the toe for even the smallest of guys/gals.

Interesting you mention that.

When I was at the shop last, the tech showed me one thing that can happen that causes problems with tech bindings. Warped boots.

He was mounting a brand new pair of Radical FTs and a brand new pair of Titans. He demonstrated the integrity of the mount and then how each boot was lined up differently with the heel pins. I bet that guy wasn't too happy with the explanation, but it sure looked like the case to me. Shop tech said it's not the first time he's seen it. I definetly saw it with my own eyes but never considered this possibility before.

[gregL]

I've had that happen. Mount went perfectly, carefully tightened the toe screws one at a time so the heel aligns exactly on the pins, glued everything down. Then switched boots, and they were off by maybe 2mm. I ended up explaining the situation and marking the skis "R" and "L."