Thread: Touring ski...Verdict, Zenoxide, other options?

I'm looking for a new touring ski for this season, but I'm kind of unsure of what I should go with. Right now I have some first-gen 182 Zealots, but they're too stiff and have way too much camber, so I need to move on to something else. I've been looking at the Verdicts since they seem fun and can be found for pretty cheap, but the Zenoxide looks good too...although I haven't found a pair to check out here in town.

This ski will be for 100% touring, the only inbounds skiing it will be used for is getting to the backcountry gates. I just need something that will be more manageable than the Zealots, light enough to tour all day on, but not a worthless noodle. Any suggestions? I'm 6'1" and 155, by the way.

I am the same size as you and run 180 verdicts for touring on tele and now with freerides they are defiantley not a noodle but still they have a 26M turning radius

Stoke, Hi-5, 112RP . . .

I got the 112RP coming and I have heard great things but they were not "pretty cheap"

Voile Drifters or if that too wide for you try Voile Chargers
IMHO Drifters are damn good powder touring rig... I stress powder.... no likey harpack.
I have DPS 105's AND DPS 112's BUT the DRIFTER is still my favorite powder touring ski... sorry 112rp fanbois!

Originally Posted by Aenigma

I've been looking at the Verdicts since they seem fun and can be found for pretty cheap,

What generation Verdict?

IMHO the Blue and Orange ones from a few years ago (since you mention cheap) were a really nasty ski. About as far from fun as you can get and most definitely not a fun touring set up. I'm not sure how they changed over the years after that but realize that rocker was added at some point and might have redeemed them.

Wailers or volkl nunataq

Verdicts/Zealots are completely different this year than in years' past, totally redesigned. To clarify-

2012 Verdict=102 underfoot, full wood core (paulownia), 2 sheets of titanal, sandwich construction, ABS sidewalls. More of an in-bounds charger, hard-pack ski at this point though some will venture bc with it. 23 m turn radius in the 180cm, semi-rockered tip, traditional tail.

The 2012 Zealot went to the same construction as well- it's beefy, 110 waist, 27m radius in the 182cm, semi-rockered in the tip as well as tail.

If you are looking to save weight but still want meat with your float, check out the redesigned Justice for shits and grins- 115 underfoot (185cm), light camber, rocker tip, semi-rocker tail, wood core with carbon fiber reinforcements, 33m turn radius. It's the widest ski in BD's touring lineup now. 175 or 185cm

Disclaimer: now working with BD, but totally stoked on the ski redesigns for this season. Just a heads up.

Cheers,

J

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

What generation Verdict?

IMHO the Blue and Orange ones from a few years ago (since you mention cheap) were a really nasty ski. About as far from fun as you can get and most definitely not a fun touring set up. I'm not sure how they changed over the years after that but realize that rocker was added at some point and might have redeemed them.

That generation verdict was a foam core ski iirc (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Every generation of verdict since has been wood core. The dark navy from a few years back was full wood, the orange from last year was a slightly softer wood core version (tho still fairly stiff). And then this years redesigned verdict is wood core+titanium. A slight amount of rocker was added to this years verdict, it wasn't in past iterations. Just fyi.

Originally Posted by Aenigma

I'm looking for a new touring ski for this season, but I'm kind of unsure of what I should go with. Right now I have some first-gen 182 Zealots, but they're too stiff and have way too much camber, so I need to move on to something else. I've been looking at the Verdicts since they seem fun and can be found for pretty cheap, but the Zenoxide looks good too...although I haven't found a pair to check out here in town.

This ski will be for 100% touring, the only inbounds skiing it will be used for is getting to the backcountry gates. I just need something that will be more manageable than the Zealots, light enough to tour all day on, but not a worthless noodle. Any suggestions? I'm 6'1" and 155, by the way.

wow dude - better eat more big macs. I'm 5' 11" 155lbs - here's my review of the Zenoxide.

http://www.wildsnow.com/4889/g3-gear-review/

It's stiff, but not too stiff. I had the older 07-08 foam core Verdicts and only replaced them when the tips started to delam. The Zenoxide has a slight tip rocker - is not a beginner ski - but was the right kind of ski for me. See the article for more on what I mean

Greg mentioned the Stoke and I had a chance to demo and ski on a pre-production pair and production pair for a bit. Comments were as follows from the article

The Stokes are like the Zenoxide in terms of sidecut. The Zenoxide has more early rise and is stiffer at tip at tail and torsionally which means its less forgiving, but boy it also means you can go really really fast on it. It’s got great edge hold and deals with chopped up snow quite well. Incredible powder ski which is a good thing because out of 98 days this year I’ve skied 91 in powder. But also can deal with variable conditions on exits from tours. Also pretty light.
Definitely a more demanding ski though in the sense that it will overpower lighter boots and if I am being lazy it will definitely remind me. So I have to be always paying attention otherwise will end up flat on my back.

I'm definitely leaning toward something 105+ in the waist with a bit of tip rocker, I've just been out of the gear-nerding world for a year or so, so I'm behind. The Zenoxide looks really cool and I can get it for cheap, but I've heard enough bad things about g3 to be a little hesitant to grab a pair immediately. The Justice sounds really cool too (on paper), but it seems like people don't really like it as much once the snow gets a little choppier? Ehhh I'm not sure. I'd even consider another pair of Zealots if last year's are noticeably softer and easier to turn than the first-gen ones.

But these will honestly be backcountry-only, so I'll only be dealing with hardpack and chop if I'm skiing somewhere shitty on a bad day. I'm also limited to skis that aren't new this year, because I'm not enough of a baller to pay full retail.

...and while I generally take it pretty easy in the backcountry, I also did grow up skiing bumps, and my everyday in-bounds ski is a pair of proto 191 Wrenegades.

The 1st generation Blue & orange verdict was foam core & made by atomic for BD, I got mine in 2005 they were very concave out of the wrapper and , IME they could be a little but evil but a good stone grind and detuning of the tails gave them some manners

I also have the 2nd generation all blue wood core , they are wider/flatter damper and they address some of the issues of the 1st version

Version 1&2 like GS turns , I havent skied the 3rd & 4th version

Originally Posted by Aenigma

I'm definitely leaning toward something 105+ in the waist with a bit of tip rocker, I've just been out of the gear-nerding world for a year or so, so I'm behind. The Zenoxide looks really cool and I can get it for cheap, but I've heard enough bad things about g3 to be a little hesitant to grab a pair immediately. The Justice sounds really cool too (on paper), but it seems like people don't really like it as much once the snow gets a little choppier? Ehhh I'm not sure. I'd even consider another pair of Zealots if last year's are noticeably softer and easier to turn than the first-gen ones.

But these will honestly be backcountry-only, so I'll only be dealing with hardpack and chop if I'm skiing somewhere shitty on a bad day. I'm also limited to skis that aren't new this year, because I'm not enough of a baller to pay full retail.

Well Bozeman snow is quite a bit less water content then Whistler or perhaps even Interior BC snow so perhaps the Justice will be fine. The pair I tried were noodles but I have been told (but don't know first hand) that they are a bit stiffer this year. Keep in mind that my impressions were specific to my snow and my skiing (lack of) technique so I liked a bit of stiffness in the ski even in powder. For me, I couldn't ski a noodly ski fast but I can slow down a stiff ski so all things being equal I wanted a slightly stiffer ski. Having said that your 1st gen 182 Zealots were so stiff that they terrified me. If you can, try before you buy

Originally Posted by JayBruce

That generation verdict was a foam core ski iirc (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Every generation of verdict since has been wood core. The dark navy from a few years back was full wood, the orange from last year was a slightly softer wood core version (tho still fairly stiff). And then this years redesigned verdict is wood core+titanium. A slight amount of rocker was added to this years verdict, it wasn't in past iterations. Just fyi.

This was foam:



And I believe this was the year they went to wood:



Had the later - didn't enjoy it. Just not a fun ski and too heavy for a "touring" ski IMO. Replaced with Stokes and now also Mustagh ATA SLs. Love them both.

Originally Posted by Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer

And I believe this was the year they went to wood:



Had the later - didn't enjoy it. Just not a fun ski and too heavy for a "touring" ski IMO. Replaced with Stokes and now also Mustagh ATA SLs. Love them both.

Yep. Those were the ones I was talking about. IMO they were just too unforgiving and hard work for a touring ski. I want something that's easy skiing and fun to make the most of every turn that I've earned and that doesn't feel like it's about to spit me into a heap just for the fun of it or because of jelly legs or variable snow conditions. Every time I rode those things I regretted taking them.

Of course. Your mileage may vary.

just an fyi, the orange verdicts are up on SAC atm... for like the 10th time this past week lol.

^^ ahh I was confused which ski you were describing, I thought you were talking about the previous generation of verdict. Lol the pics definately help clarify

I also had a hell of a time with the first-gen Zealots. Liked them well enough in the wide open, but they scared me in the trees. Maybe the 186 Vicik? You might be able to find some for a decent deal. FWIW, I personally love the K2 Hardsides...you might try the Sidestash if you're interested in a wider ski. (I'm 5'11, 165#, if you're wondering. I ski the 181, but I have longer skis for powder.) Both the Hardsides and the Sidestash can be found in gearswap now for pretty decent deals...

Are you going the Duke or the Dynafit/plum route?

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Yep. Those were the ones I was talking about. IMO they were just too unforgiving and hard work for a touring ski. I want something that's easy skiing and fun to make the most of every turn that I've earned and that doesn't feel like it's about to spit me into a heap just for the fun of it or because of jelly legs or variable snow conditions. Every time I rode those things I regretted taking them.

Of course. Your mileage may vary.

I agree with the Brit

I got that ^^^ blue version with the handcuffs on the tail CHEAP from a guy who hated em after a day of tour so I mounted them alpine for the hill which was good so I tried em touring but found em maybe a bit too heavey and a lot of work

where I use them nowdays is set up alpine for the times when it hasn't snowed in awhile and the rockered skis have quit working

I find the blue & orange foam cores tour well

I'll be putting Dynafits on them.

I got to check out some skis this week, and I think I am going to go with this year's 185 Justice, they seemed about right for what I want. Thanks for the help everyone!

I have a few friends who are really happy with the Coombacks. If I buy skis this year it will be those or the Zenoxides I think.

The all Orange 2010 Verdicts are an awesome ski. Love them for pow, crap, ice, you name it, they charge it.
Pretty light and fun for skinning, but don't have them to compare anything else to.

Just bought the Bent Chetlers, so I'll use the Verdicts as my primary long touring set up!

There have been a lot of Justices in GS over the last year, I'd watch out for that ski.

I had two generations of Verdicts and I like them alot for my weight at 205. They were a stiff and powerful ski and worked great on all conditions especially mixed snow and firm(for their size). However they are heavy and a load skinning and thats why I got rid of them. I heard the later generation Verdicts are a bit softer. BUT, the newest generation has been redisigned with metal and I would expect it to be a great resort ski but way heavy for touring. WTBS, I just got my new 185 BD Justices with Dynafits Radical Speeds. Ski most certainly doesn't feel like a noodle and has some rocker but not alot. I weighted them on a accurate scale and they weigh 9# 14oz for the pair with bindings/leashes. So potentially a very good BC touring ski(hopefully)