Thread: 2011-2012 Jackson/Targhee/Tetons/Togwotee Weather, Conditions & Stoke Thread

Thanks Aaron. Appreciate your honesty and clarity, not to mention your willingness to go help dig or whatever needed to be done. Cool photos- and you know that Panchosdad is my husband, right? I couldn't quite make myself go back up there the next day, needed to stay in and recover. You guys might not know, also, that GC had to go into the Winds on a snow sampling mission the next day, he isn't around to weigh in, but I bet he won't be surprised at the extent of the armchairing when he gets back.

I was part of the other group up there that day. We did 2 runs, stuck to lookers right, near the ridge. Our first run was further left, we thought that the slab was still cold and the slab wasn't moving, and the underlying structure over there is actually less deep-slab than elsewhere (how do we know? we had been digging for days). Our second run was even further to the right, less sun-affected, as it was warming up by that time. We tried to stay in lower angle terrain (yes, if you look at the shoulder of that bowl it is much less steep, no steeper than second turn, actually), and to where it hadn't been windloaded from the SW. We discussed our options, our data, and were happy with our results (or lack thereof). Also happy to be off the thing as the sun started to cook it.

My buddy and I skied that second run and scooted back to the SE ridge to exit, took some glades down and cut back left again. We stopped to check out a moose and heard a monstrous rifle crack, then the roar of a huge "train." We watched a powder cloud bigger than I have ever seen move down the poop chute. We could only say "fuck...fuck...," knowing that the other party of skiers was above us and in more exposed terrain, steeper, rockier, more wind-loaded and had begun to heat up. I started to shake, thinking about the possibility they were entrained.

As the cloud diminished we hurried towards the up-track to get to the debris. At the intersection of the poop chute with the main Coal Creek drainage the initial powder cloud/ debris had turned the corner, but a residual wet snow debris flow was slowly moving towards us. We stepped out of its way, I called 911, and we began a beacon search. Just then GC came down and told us that his party was all clear. What a relief. No friends caught in unsurvivable debris. Now just to worry about other bystanders possibly caught. My buddy and I did a methodical signal search all the way down the debris; I called 911 back, saying that we were 99% sure there was no-one caught, but I agreed with Tim Ciocarlan of TCSAR that it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the heli, with the long-range beacon receiver, fly over the debris.

So my buddy and I stuck around til the heli reported no signals, then we left and had to go get a drink, debrief our day. We agreed that our team had made decent decisions, towards the edge of our comfort zone, but were somewhat relieved to see that all our tracks were still intact, you can see them on the photos off to lookers right. So maybe we were teasing the dragon, but we were trying to play it reasonably, using all the snowpack, weather, and terrain knowledge we had, and managed ourselves well.

I have been sleepless for a number of nights now, thinking about my risk tolerance both personally and professionally. I am a little pissed about folks who categorically say that we were stupid for being up there that day, that is ignorant of you. We knew the deep slab problem, the storm snow problem combined with wind slab, and picked terrain that seemed to fit those problems.

OK that's our story, I am laying myself open for the internet pundits to hammer away, there you have it.

Thanks, and I almost forgot.

I dug a full pit today. mid elevation, NW, protected. Fist hard facets at the base (down ~160cms) reacting CT22-CT25 Q1. The rest of the snowpack looked pretty rightside up with some easier failures at density breaks. Its going to be hard (getting harder) to trigger the facets at the base with 1.5m+ of snow on top of them most places but hit somewhere thin and pop!

thanks for the words Aaron, tough spot, seems like you nailed it...

Aaron did you put it into Snowpilot? Send me a copy or a photo of your pit book page? I am thinking to put this as my own case study into the next TAR. (how brave or stupid would that be?)

Looking at those pictures and what I saw that day it sure didn't look like any ski cutting was going on, just some powder turn farming.

Actually, the armchairing of the event itself isn't as interesting to me as those posters on Romeo's site who act like this slide was a gift akin to being added to Schindlers List, saving us lesser mortals from destruction in a later slide that was sure to come.

And those who seem to think the rest of us have it coming if we are dumb enough to be below you when you drop a cornice or ski cut an avy slope.

Sorry HMS. I misspoke. I did a full depth test pit today, not a full pit. I can do one tomorrow for you if you would like though. Let me know.

Nothing to add here to the Taylor discussion. Can't wait till its safe to ski lines like that again, but for me, it'll be awhile. What we have this season is akin to (what's shaping up to be) a deep continental snowpack. Continental, in that PWL that we keep talking about. And now we're getting the serious snow to add up to scary, hard-to-trigger slabs. Its no surprise to me that this slide took out old tracks. Thats how deep-slab instability works; any avy class will back that up, and the BTNF guys have been saying it for the last couple weeks. And what happens in continental snowpacks when there are layers like this? You wait. Until the layer either gets burried too deep to trigger (we're getting there, but not yet), or if your unlucky like in many continental areas, until the weather warms up and the pack goes isothermic. Thankfully, we're getting hit hard with snow and soon enough those layers will be taken care of. But personally, I haven't got any big lines like that on my radar for the next couple weeks.



And besides, the Village has been going off!!!! Just fantastic skiing, top-to-bottom. Today, Corbet's opened, as well as Saratoga. Corbet's was full on!! Who ever 3'd out of the cave, then 3'd the other way off the middle fin: that was sick. Much props. And Toga, man, that was the sweet spot today. I rallied out 6 laps in there in the morning, just bouncing my way down, either engulfed in a face shot, of flying through the air. It was just ridiculous, almost as good as it gets back there. Throw in some buffed out, creamy Alta chutes, and some epic wide-open lower face runs, and you got a good day of skiing. 4" today?!!? More like 14+


Tonight I'm dreamin about how good Casper Bowl will be when they open it tomorrow...

Ah I had so much fun. Skied out north and south, and marioland/Saratoga was magical. Worth multiple laps. Also hiked up to Casper bowl on Tuesday for fine deep turns. Great snow, great terrain. Maybe I got a couple of pics, but hard to stand still long enough to set up a shot. So much vert, my legs are fried. Good times.

Just an observation as I lurk this forum and have for years, a handful of people on here think they are real bad ass skiers/snowboarders. Not to mention avalanche experts. A few Years ago I witnessed "Aaron" totally gaping it up on a cornice on LIL TUCKS, doing who the fuck knows what, then dropped in after what had to be 10 minutes only to take HUGE GAPER turns down the whole way. Funny how posting pics online opens you up to recognition in negative ways as well.

I have only been in Jackson for 8 winters, but have always understood that riding BC is inherently dangerous, even to those below you.
The Taylor slide, oh well IMO. Looks like to me that lots of people made a dumb move by riding Taylor that day, and it broke on one of them, and the shit storm was directed at him. Good thing know one was in Coal Creek that day(hopefully), but thats why I don't EVER ride coal creek....not worth the glory hike for that run AND most importantly its in an obvious slide path. I have been riding the pass since I was 14, since I grew up a couple hours away from it. I respect it. Lots of folks out here from BACK EAST do not. Not to stereotype them, its just true that jackson/driggs has a MAJOR EAST INFECTION. Oh, and I have ridden Taylor and handful of times, Poopchute and East Face, but never on a day like when this slide happened. I pick my day very carefully because I want to be an OLD backcountry rider one day.

Dont look for recognition around here, because this shit is about having FUN. Nobody gives a shit what you do with your day, except the other trolls on this forum looking to get their wieners sucked by posting lame photos of things most of us have done, and not told anyone about, especially in GTNP. Posting that shit also makes these spots VERY WELL KNOWN all over the US/East and brings lots of people here that will follow your skin tracks not knowing WTF they are doing and then you might have to drop in on top of them cause they're following YOU, not even knowing they are there. It has happened to me before out there. This is a special place for me, cause it brings back lots of good memories. Secrets are a GOOD thing around these parts.

Carry on, have FUN

If your going to call me out you should know "a few years ago" I wasnt here.

Last year. March. It was you, saw you at the bottom of Phillips, maybe crossing the road. Looked right at you and recognized you from all your "epic" pictures. Whatever you were doing up there was not safe, and this was very clear to us from our vantage by the smoke shack on top of glory. We also rode lil tucks that day. Not gaper style, but like we had done it a hundred times before, knew our line, knew not to hang out on a cornice!, and knew not to hammer turns the whole way down, very touch and go, and off that face as quick as possible with as few turns as possible.

That is all

Fair enough. Youre entitled to your opinion as I am mine. Out of curosity, do you have a real name?

Edit: Secrects? Anything in Turiano's book or posted on Tetonat and the other well read Jackson blogs hardly qualify as secrects.

saratoga/mario for the win! just killin it yesterday, hopefully more today.... be careful to the north/west/south all you crazy fucks. i still don't trust that weak layer, i mean look at the size of these slides recently...not survivable that's fo sho.

From a page or two back:
"BTNF didn't report any natural activity on Tuesday, so I doubt if that snow would have slid without some encouragement. Snow changes with the weather and can be safe one hour and not the next, or vice versa."
There were numerous significant slides along Phillips Ridge/Wilson Faces, as well as just south of the Pyramid. However, those could have also occurred earlier in the storm. Just thought it was worth mentioning, as I noticed those slides while driving back to town from the Death Star, er, Teton Village, in my fighter jet.
Yours truly,
Luke Skywalker

Originally Posted by Snowboard Professor

Last year. March. It was you, saw you at the bottom of Phillips, maybe crossing the road. Looked right at you and recognized you from all your "epic" pictures. Whatever you were doing up there was not safe, and this was very clear to us from our vantage by the smoke shack on top of glory. We also rode lil tucks that day. Not gaper style, but like we had done it a hundred times before, knew our line, knew not to hang out on a cornice!, and knew not to hammer turns the whole way down, very touch and go, and off that face as quick as possible with as few turns as possible.

That is all

Christ, sometimes I think I am looking at the Aurora Borealis on the northern horizon but now I suspect it's just the massive expert halo coming from Jackson!

Also, these gaper turns you speak of, can you point me to a YouTube example of such? I secretly fear I have been making them for 20 years and seek confirmation.

crags rocked today...video soon

This board sucks now. I don't know how long you've been lurking Snowboard Professor, but the demise of this board started some time around when they got rid of the tags. Now, if you want to find out which thread has relevance to a discussion of how much Jer <3 cock, you don't even know where to go. Back then this really was a community, and I've met great people, and learned lots of good knowledge, mostly in pms. But all those people are pretty much gone, now. So there is no-one to humiliate and constantly harasses a stupid ass JONG like you--who has done not one iota of shit for anyone on this board, nor shared a thought of any value whatsoever, much less anything anyone could give a flying fuck about--until you finally would give up and just get the fuck out. That's a shame. It's why very few of the cool people that used to make this place unique are here anymore. But, whatever. Thanks for your third-person blogs.

Aaron and Steve, thanks for providing actual Stoke and observations on the snowpack. Also HMS, you always provide great info., thanks for disseminating clean, clear, and precise data, without all the fucking bullshit that is cluttering this thread.

Originally Posted by Snowboard Professor

Last year. March. It was you, saw you at the bottom of Phillips, maybe crossing the road. Looked right at you and recognized you from all your "epic" pictures. Whatever you were doing up there was not safe, and this was very clear to us from our vantage by the smoke shack on top of glory. We also rode lil tucks that day. Not gaper style, but like we had done it a hundred times before, knew our line, knew not to hang out on a cornice!, and knew not to hammer turns the whole way down, very touch and go, and off that face as quick as possible with as few turns as possible.

That is all

so if greg had only made 5 turns down the poop chute, it wouldn't have slid?

and if you're so rad, why are you skiing little tucks, one of the more lame runs in the tetons..?

[QUOTE Lots of folks out here from BACK EAST do not. Not to stereotype them, its just true that jackson/driggs has a MAJOR EAST INFECTION. ][/QUOTE]
who's going to buy all those empty houses.
Would be interesting to see the 2006 and this slide side by side. Looks like the trigger and crown were very close. But I could be wrong.

Hey BFD- just so you know- the 06 slide was on the east face and this was the south. But they are not that dissimilar. A deep slab problem with 80" of new on top, triggered at a rocky weak spot.

Glad there were no fatalities with this one. Laurel was a friend of mine and that was tough.

Edit: for a better picture

Took this from my back porch, looking at the Wilson Faces. This was the largest of 4 similar slides, all on the same aspect & elevation on 4 adjacent ridges. This one is particularly surprising as it slid earlier in the week, just after the 50" dump. Another 30" of snow and there it goes again. Now that is a PERSISTENT weak layer.





Inbounds continues to deliver. Faceshots every turn in the right places in the crags today

I too blame the entire shitty snow year and huge persistent week layers on the loss of tags.

Didn't any webgurus notice the exact correlation between advanced full blown butthurt and tags going away? Aren't their analytics for that?

I sure as hell did, and I don't even know html. Good on you TLEBowski.

Snowboard profesor, have u found an extra dope lightwieght light bar to tour around with and pull people over for their lack of radness while shreding the pass? Damn, when i am getting gnar and see the pig red and blue lights comin down the hill behind me I will know that cops teton pass are on my tail and you snowboard profesor are ridin shotgun, billy club at the ready to pull out of your ass and ram in mine. Pull over in the trees there John C, gnar license and rad registration please and keep your hands and go pros where I can see em. I have judged you as not as sick as me and am writing you a ticket for not being sufficiantly sick enough and you have a misdemeaner violation of lack of full face mask helmet, and where are your sponsors stickers? Your punishment will be having to ride back to the Vill in my audi, hang out with me in the VC for 20 full minutes, and join in the communal circle jerk of telling each other how sick we got.

[QUOTE=homemadesalsa;3525585

Glad there were no fatalities with this one. Laurel was a friend of mine and that was tough.[/QUOTE]

HMS, that was a crappy way to meet you. I still think of her often as I daily look over her roofline to Taylor in the distance.
Stay safe.