Thread: Whistler Stoke and Conditions - 2011/2012

Originally Posted by frodo

And the status quo is not acceptable - its only a matter of time before some tit on a DH bike, long weekend, at mach speed cleans up a hiker's kid. Then we're all the bad guys.

While I don't think a lot of DH mountain bikers ride Singing Pass since its not that easy to get to on a DH bike, this is a concern of many non-bikers. They think that the alpine will be taken over by DH and 'stunt' bikers.

Having the trail open and educating the riders will hopefully make the riders realize that hikers have the right of way and they can't ride down the trail thinking its the bike park and there won't be any hikers there.

Granting legit access to bikers on Singing Pass would realy change the character of that area.

A certain ski area operator in the area would instantly start advertising this as part of their MTB experience, bringing in the hordes.

We'd then have those hordes with very easy (and fast) access to Russet Lake. It's not like this area doesn't already see a fair bit of traffic, but it would really feel like an extension of W/B if this change happened. It would also put more load on the hut that's there.

Sent from my MB300 using TGR Forums

Although I'm all for more access to trails to ride, I think that any open Garabaldi park trails that are downhill from WB's lift access will get demolished in very short order. Singing Pass would see 100's of bikes on a quiet day and potentially up to a 1000 a day on a busy weekend. Parks can't afford to maintain that, and the WB won't do more than offer a pittance of trail maintenance

Be careful what you wish for...

What local weather site do you all use?

What is in the extended forcast? I am starting to watch/pray for sick Mar 1 conditions.

Originally Posted by frodo

high income users to the valley. Just what we need to keep us in the ski-bum lifestyle to which we have become accustomed!

As far as I'm concerned, we see enough traffic in town as it is. My ski bum existance will carry on no matter what, so constantly trying to build a better mouse trap is really not a good argument for turning that part of the alpine into a complete shit show. Where does it end? It's bad enough that I have to look out my window and see a big gondola cunting up what used to be a pristine scenic vista. Alpine mtn biking can be found not too far north of here for those who are willing to pedal.

Originally Posted by skiingnow

Having the trail open and educating the riders will hopefully make the riders realize that hikers have the right of way and they can't ride down the trail thinking its the bike park and there won't be any hikers there.

Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Granting legit access to bikers on Singing Pass would realy change the character of that area.

A certain ski area operator in the area would instantly start advertising this as part of their MTB experience, bringing in the hordes.

We'd then have those hordes with very easy (and fast) access to Russet Lake. It's not like this area doesn't already see a fair bit of traffic, but it would really feel like an extension of W/B if this change happened. It would also put more load on the hut that's there.

Sent from my MB300 using TGR Forums

Yep. The current mtn bike park is more than enough to keep the best riders satisfied. If you want high alpine riding, head up to Tyax and have them drop you off in the middle of no where.

Originally Posted by Clownshoe

Although I'm all for more access to trails to ride, I think that any open Garabaldi park trails that are downhill from WB's lift access will get demolished in very short order. Singing Pass would see 100's of bikes on a quiet day and potentially up to a 1000 a day on a busy weekend. Parks can't afford to maintain that, and the WB won't do more than offer a pittance of trail maintenance

Be careful what you wish for...

Exactly. That's a lot of KM to maintain. Who is gonna do that? Who is gonna drag all the carcasses off the mtn? Who is going to be getting frantic phone calls from people strewn all over from Fitz creek all teh way over to Cheakamus lake? The alpine trails and singing pass will get blown out in a heart beat. It will make ride don't slide look like a well maintained trail.

The status quo is just fine. It's not like you can't quietly access the area right now and as long as you're respectful about it, nobody is going to say shit and thats the way it should stay. The people who seem really excited about the possibility of opening it up also seem to have a financial stake in doing so. I will certainly fill out the form and let them know what a bad idea it would be.

you're such a pessimist p11, I'm firmly on the otherside, for a lot of reasons, and feel that there are plenty of mgmt solutions to prevent a lot of what you're talking about. that, and I kinda feel like officially singing pass should be uphill only. as much as I'd love to get into this now, I'm going skiing instead.

Originally Posted by t.odd

you're such a pessimist p11, I'm firmly on the otherside, for a lot of reasons, and feel that there are plenty of mgmt solutions to prevent a lot of what you're talking about. that, and I kinda feel like officially singing pass should be uphill only. as much as I'd love to get into this now, I'm going skiing instead.

Uphill only are you on fucking glue. Your telling me that you would want to pedal all the way up to Whistler just to ride the beat to shit bike park trails down again. Man that would be so awesommme

Originally Posted by powder11

The status quo is just fine. It's not like you can't quietly access the area right now and as long as you're respectful about it, nobody is going to say shit and thats the way it should stay. The people who seem really excited about the possibility of opening it up also seem to have a financial stake in doing so.

I doubt you're including WORCA in that category - alluding to the big mother corporation?

Originally Posted by postman22

Uphill only are you on fucking glue. Your telling me that you would want to pedal all the way up to Whistler just to ride the beat to shit bike park trails down again. Man that would be so awesommme

well, if you want to get into it...This is about the spearhead summer route, potential singing creek trail, flute ridge back down towards singing pass, and hell the musical bumps needing a lot of work. I've climbed SP/MB to the peak before, and I'll do it again, and while it'd be nice to have SP open downhill too, it would require either some separated trail sections, and/or speed control measures, and/or staggered use to prevent some dumbfuck from wiping out a family or something. Hence, I'd be open to uphill only, given some of the options that may be coming down the pipe. All I'm suggesting is that it can't, and shouldn't be, a free for all, cause nothing will ensure we get banned permanently than an ugly incident. Folks that want to get a sun-rise rip in will always be able to regardless.

Man, think about being able to legally ride all the way to the top of the fitz drainage and stare up at those glaciers, then loop back via the bumps, or go down singing creek to cheak lake, or yes, climb up to the peak, or descend to the village (if we can figure out how to do it safely)...this is a huge piece of the puzzle that our community is missing as a mountain bike tourism destination. We have the smarts in the community and corridor to do this right, and right now, the right people are motivated and working towards it. There's tremendous support for this in the community, the vibe on it is pretty strong based on the feedback I've been getting. In my opinion its exciting times for mtb's here, other communities have been working to build this kind of trail infrastructure while we've lagged comparatively, I think the next 5 years are going to be awesome for trail development here.

I don't want to have to poach it, and I want us to have trail rides that literally take your breathe away from being in the middle of the mountains, not in a deep dark forest all the time. Call me an optimist on this one! now where'd I put that glue?

I'm with Toby on this, keep the status quo as is.

I'm with the ex Worca pres on this. Think long-term. Revelstoke led the way in legal sanctioned alpine singletrack. Why should Whistler skulk in the shadows

Originally Posted by rugbydave

I'm with Toby on this, keep the status quo as is.

Kinda like what we skied today. If it were given a different status, everyone would do it and it would suck. I think I'm more of a selfish prick than a pessimest because I want to be able to enjoy those moments Todd speaks of without having to deal with a bunch of kooks from somewhere else. I understand why a lot of people are into this and I'm not saying they're wrong to feel that way. It's just my .02, which clearly doesn't collude with the powers at be in town, so not much I can do except to say that I think it's a bad idea and could potentially turn into a shit show. The transient nature of those who frequent the bike park are now permeating their way on to locals trails and display a complete lack of respect for existing trails already. You can build trails to the highest standards, but all it takes is a few jackasses to start braiding corners or start new lines and it all goes downhill from there. Think of all the braided, blown out bullshit that will be created by yahoos out for a good time, not a long time. I know the local crowd will and already do respect the way it is, so why not leave it the way it is and don't worry about Whistler not being able to turn this into some marketing dream when we're already sitting on marketing gold?

Whatever happened to charging people to ride off the Peak down into Khyber? Keep the inmates contained in the asylum! Who cares what the folks in Revelstoke are doing!

I'd like to be able to ride in BC parks without feeling like I'm a trespassing Hoodlum.

How many people will want to put in the effort to ride this area anyway?

I find clownshoes insight interesting and concerning though. He would know. But I don't think its THAT easy for the bike park crowd to get to singing pass or other areas.

If they have to put in speed gates, so be it. Hopefully there will be enough snow in the winter to cover them... or as Flip suggested alternate routes.

If mountain bikers can't respect other users, then fine. Ban us. But I'd rather it be because we are disrespectful putzes rather then an arbitrary decision by some bureaucrat.

I'd put in a trail day to make this happen.

^^^ FWIW I'm more than a bit sympathetic to your pov. there'll always be secret stashes everywhere and as long as people learn to stfu about them they'll be protected. I just hate having to skulk around in the alpine like a crim (theoretically speaking of course) when we're the freaking taxpayers and do just as much work as some selfrighteous goretex sombrero wearer.

Originally Posted by LeeLau

I just hate having to skulk around in the alpine like a crim.

It kind of adds an element of adventure and excitement to the exp!

Originally Posted by powder11

It kind of adds an element of adventure and excitement to the exp!

don't think I haven't shared your sentiment at times, buddy! I love pemby, chilcs, and everything else in the corridor, but I still want to be able to legally ride the amazing stuff I know we have in our backyard, and help make it even better. There's definitely some challenges in it, but that shouldn't prevent us from trying in my opinion.

Originally Posted by t.odd

don't think I haven't shared your sentiment at times, buddy! I love pemby, chilcs, and everything else in the corridor, but I still want to be able to legally ride the amazing stuff I know we have in our backyard, and help make it even better. There's definitely some challenges in it, but that shouldn't prevent us from trying in my opinion.

I know your intentions are nothing but the best and I totally respect your opinion, so I would hope there's enough money behind this to do it the proper way like you stated. My fear is that it will be some 1/2 assed effort whose success soley relies on people not being morons (wishfull thinking) and then a bunch of fucked up shit happens (trail abuse, user conflicts and severe wilderness injuries) that will get it shut down and we'll see park rangers out there confiscating front wheels again. Maybe I am a pessimest, but after having lived here for 10 years, I have no confidence in the judgement of folks who show up for a short term visit and think they're gonna pwn the place.

Originally Posted by skiingnow

While I don't think a lot of DH mountain bikers ride Singing Pass since its not that easy to get to on a DH bike, this is a concern of many non-bikers. They think that the alpine will be taken over by DH and 'stunt' bikers.

It doesn't take a lot. Granted the bumps would totally BLOW on a DH bike, but I've seen some pretty un-acceptable park rat action down singing pass with my own eyes.

I share the concerns of this being half-assed and ill funded for sure. And I want the alpine for those who know, not the masses. BUT... we have a great oppurtunity to get legit alpine access with fun trails right from town. And p11, we may have the Chilcotins as alpine playground now but there's no guarantee we get to keep that, don't forget...

i'd be very suprised if this was done half assed. Its something that most of my xc buddies and me have talked about forever, and im sure with a combination of WB and WORCA that it could and will be handled appropriately if we get to that stage.
I've never ridden the bumps or out to russett lake but I think the potential is mind blowing. We really need some epic style rides out of Whistler, fingers crossed that it happens.

Originally Posted by nortonwhis

i'd be very suprised if this was done half assed.

Show me the money. Then I'll be convinced.

Originally Posted by powder11

Kinda like what we skied today. If it were given a different status, everyone would do it and it would suck. I think I'm more of a selfish prick than a pessimest because I want to be able to enjoy those moments Todd speaks of without having to deal with a bunch of kooks from somewhere else. I understand why a lot of people are into this and I'm not saying they're wrong to feel that way. It's just my .02, which clearly doesn't collude with the powers at be in town, so not much I can do except to say that I think it's a bad idea and could potentially turn into a shit show. The transient nature of those who frequent the bike park are now permeating their way on to locals trails and display a complete lack of respect for existing trails already. You can build trails to the highest standards, but all it takes is a few jackasses to start braiding corners or start new lines and it all goes downhill from there. Think of all the braided, blown out bullshit that will be created by yahoos out for a good time, not a long time. I know the local crowd will and already do respect the way it is, so why not leave it the way it is and don't worry about Whistler not being able to turn this into some marketing dream when we're already sitting on marketing gold?

Whatever happened to charging people to ride off the Peak down into Khyber? Keep the inmates contained in the asylum! Who cares what the folks in Revelstoke are doing!

Exactly, upsetting the status quo often just leads to bullshit and attention leading to enforcement of bullshit rules. Not to mention kooks crowding the place up. As far as I'm concerned, if I never see another inch of so-called "progress" here, both for skiing and biking, I'll be a happy camper. If that means I have to sneak around to enjoy some of what we have here, I'm ok with it.

maybe blackcomb would be a better solution than whistler. there would be some good potential there without as much risk of multi-use conflicts. that would also mean lots of trail building and more cost however.

I will agree with people on here saying that a half assed job would be a waste of time. But there is a lot of potential to drive business for the resort, from a generally wealthy set of end users, that dont already visit the resort. Hopefully that would draw funding from RMOW as well as others.

Originally Posted by rugbydave

Exactly, upsetting the status quo often just leads to bullshit and attention leading to enforcement of bullshit rules. Not to mention kooks crowding the place up. As far as I'm concerned, if I never see another inch of so-called "progress" here, both for skiing and biking, I'll be a happy camper. If that means I have to sneak around to enjoy some of what we have here, I'm ok with it.

Yep, look what happened when a member of this very forum wrote an article in the local paper about changing the status of a situation that pretty much all parties involved was kosher with the way it worked.

If you want to go ride out to Russet hut, get off your ass an do it. Pedal right up singing pass on a non holiday weekday, be respectful of everyone/thing you encounter and stick to the trail. Nobody is going to say shit and you will have a really nice ride with nobody around. If this thing takes off, singing pass will turn into the friggin gold rush trail full of MEC warriors dripping with spandex and attitude. Not a sight I want to see.

Originally Posted by powder11

...If this thing takes off, singing pass will turn into the friggin gold rush trail full of MEC warriors dripping with spandex and attitude. Not a sight I want to see.

what were you wearing 10 years ago?

I'm just a touron with a time share who's never been up in the summertime so I don't really have a skin in this game but it must be crazy hard to reconcile the outdoor experience that is whistler with the gaper-ified cash influx that is also whistler...

I think that there is an opportunity here for expanded access to mountain biking in Provincial Parks, I just think it shouldn't be anywhere accesible from WB's lifts. I specifically think that Singing Pass would be a really bad idea. Alternatively, Rubble Creek to Helm Creek is a great ride (or so I've been told) and no one is going to do that on a rental DH bike.

The Singing Pass argument may be moot anyways. With non guided bike access up the Peak Chair this summer, Singing Pass may already be hosed. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but from what I've seen, the only thing you can be sure of is that a certain percentage of the public, (especially if they've paid for a lift ticket and are on a DH bike) will do exactly whatever the hell they want. Including: massive trail braids, cut corners, renegade trail building, and high speed "get the hell out of my way" DH riding.

Let me be clear: I ride DH almost exclusively all summer, and I love ripping downhill with reckless abandon, but I don't think this is appropriate for Singing Pass specifically. Uphill only, as Todd suggested, may be an option, but I'm skeptical that it is easily enforceable.

I agree with Lee that I don't want to have to skulk around like a criminal on my bike in these beautiful places, but I also agree with those that say this will be almost certainly be a poorly planned and poorly funded government shit show. In recent years BC Parks has had their budgets repeatedly slashed. I don't see any sign of this changing to allow for the amount of maintenance and enforcement that would be required.