Wasatch Conditions 11-12

[Christopher3000]

SFB needs a proofreader and a sock in his mouth. No one clogs the airways more on this thread. Even when there are observations in his posts, they are couched within so much bullshit they require several attempts to interpret.

Grow up.

[splat]

The last time someone did the real world name call out thing in a pissin match, he kinda all but got banned.
And he was a moderator.
Just a heads up...

Beyond that...carry on.

[StraightChuter]

now perhaps one of the two pros that were in that area yesterday will summit their obs
i doubt it that particular pro only subjectively posts in reguards to his personal adgenda.

It's too bad you are such an obnoxious toolbag - otherwise I'd be happy to "summit" my obs.

[SeldomScene]

Please do not associate the good name of WOW with a dick like skifishidiot.

Anyone who thinks that they can do half as good of a job as the UAC or UDOT avy forecasters is likely wrong.

RIP Alec.

Nice to see you give those guys some credit again Bob..

fair enough bob...why

[skifishbum]

from what I witnessed today this layer will likely kill again, maybe this week, maybe in a month.

pretty sure the point of the thread is to summit what you saw today but sweet doom and gloom
are you better at finding pwl than aliasses? I hope your more observant in the bc than here
that aint wra
might be greg from alpine zone though
you jongs make me chuckle
yo chuter don't let the fact that I'm an e-dick stop you from contributing somethin that may help the community aside from your ted wilson lovers quarrell and that sad 13 min viddy
so many jongs so little obs

[Xover]

wow!?!?! (and not meaning you Wizard); just WOW?? as i take the time to read through all of this strife and ill feelings tonight it really, honestly and truly saddens me. for some really lucky reason, i have been given and/or blessed the opportunity to meet, personally spend time with and most definitely consider all those who have shown the strongest opinions over the last 2 - 3 pages friends; friends that it would absolutely affect me in deep ways that i don't even want to think about if they died to early kind of friends.

do we all need to meet at the Sitz or some other non-mo-mo place of establishment nearby to do some shots (i'll buy the first round), sumo wrestle in the snow and then come back in and air the laundry???? seriously??? all of you (especially) and everyone that takes the time to type in some obs in this thread has something of value to say and is contributing something to this online community and more importantly this local community. please, just take the time to find each gold nugget.

one of the best pieces of advise my mommy and daddy ever told me is, "if you don't have something nice to say about someone, just don't say it at all". i am more than willing to admit that i am not the "perfect" online persona, but the last few pages of this very valuable thread make me sad.

[wra]

Please do not associate the good name of WOW with a dick like skifishidiot.

Anyone who thinks that they can do half as good of a job as the UAC or UDOT avy forecasters is likely wrong.

RIP Alec.

How'd that hernia deal go?

I don't pay much attention to the danger report. Last time I checked it was bragging about starting over a mile of slides.
More interested in snow.
my ob:



cheap vodka doesn't make an avi expert.

[ripALX]

I was one of the two people with Alecs, a top notch dude, and a great rider. I'm only here to try to pass on what I learned from his terribly untimely death, because that's what I would want if it were me. Right or wrong, I'm posting anonymously because I think it will help keep it to the point, which is to learn as much as we can. I'll try to keep it to the objective lessons learned, in hopes of helping others, and I'll post anything else and expound as his family wishes. If anyone finds this inappropriate or offensive, please let me know and I will take it down or change it accordingly. I should probably take more time to refine this, but some of these lessons are pertinent to the current conditions. I know everyone here knows all of this, but I certainly need to hear it again. I'm typing these out the same way i'm saying them to myself, so it's just me that I'm being angry and stern with, not you.

The basics:
-Know snow. Take formal classes as well as reading books and learning from partners. Apply the knowledge liberally and often.

-Be very comfortable with your rescue gear at the very minimum. You should be an expert with it. Practice with scenarios as close to real life as you can possibly make them.

-Bring your cell phone, every time.

-Beacon. Shovel. Probe. Double, triple, quadruple, and then have your partner check that you have them, in working order, every time.

-Put new batteries in your beacon, right now. They're too cheap to do otherwise.

-Wear a helmet. No excuses.

-Know CPR/ First Aid, preferably WFR/OEC/EMT or higher, it's invaluable to be comfortable with those skills.


The decision making:
-Understand that hard slabs don't necessarily give the obvious warnings. Numerous pole stabs felt stable. We heard nor saw nor felt signs of collapsing or cracking in the snowpack. There was no significant new snow in the last day. There was some windloading which we had talked about, but it seemed like we were on a windward slope, if there was any wind effect. The temperature was on the rise, but it didn't seem out of the ordinary, and the sun was not on the slope. There were plenty of other slides previously, but few on our chosen aspect, and overall activity seemed to be slowing. I know this is all subjective, but the snowpack felt and seemed OK. It was obviously not. This is no excuse for not taking the overall weak snowpack into account, but that's what happened. You can't rely on only the "red flags" with hard slabs.

-Understand that you will, or already have, likely skied on a hard slab and gotten lucky that it was just stable enough, or you didn't find the sweet spot. Raise your index of suspicion accordingly.

-Dig a (deep) pit in unusual conditions like these. Even though they're highly condition and area specific, it might be the only thing that tips you off.

-Make sure everyone is informed about the terrain, as well as avy conditions, and that all decisions are made as a group, with each individual informed. Make it a "time out" or whatever it takes.

-Speak up, even if you're comfortable with the decisions being made, if you're not certain what kind of terrain you're getting into, ASK!

-Don't be a back seater, even if you're inexperienced, or new to the area, SPEAK UP!

-Don't let the presence of an "expert" or person you trust allow you to drop your guard. To be clear, the fault here lies completely with the person/group that allows it to let their guard down. Don't ever think you're an expert.

-Know the heuristic traps (1st bluebird day, expert, etc)



Enormous thanks to the UAC for the extraordinary, nonjudgemental investigation. I'm eternally grateful to Alta Ski Patrol, Wasatch Powderbird Guides, and the rest of Wasatch Backcountry Rescue for instantly dropping everything to come to the rescue, and going above and beyond in making sure we were safe and well taken care of.

It's sad, but these circumstances are the proverbial mouse trap, and seem to play themselves out all too often. Slide activity slows down, people "get away" with stuff and the little voice of reason on your shoulder quits talking in your ear. The sun comes out, and you make one ill decision that changes everything.

Hard to say it better than that.

Shitty snowpack structure is a shitty snowpack structure and that trumps everything else for me...

Yes.

Found some pretty bomber snow that's starting to heal up nicely but also noted lingering deep instability with stout slabs over the top. Hard to trigger but if you hit the sweet spot...

Thing was, most slopes we checked out looked pretty good where the snow was deep. The faceting below the rain crust that most of the latest slides have been running on is now 2-4' deep, pretty hard to trigger it now where it's more deeply buried.

We didn't dig any pits, but this is spot on from my perspective.

PowderTurd flew more or less nonstop all day dropping its load on low angle garbage but in light of the sad news that's probably not all bad... the low angle, not the flying. Also saw from a distance a good sized skier triggered avi on Holy Toledo but the skier was able to get away from it to the side.

Wasatch Powderbird Guides pulled out all the stops to help mags in need. Everyone will have their own opinion, but they stopped at nothing, and were nothing less than heroic.

Sad news boys and girls, good news is that only one has occured since this last storm cycle. Don't get the leap of steep fever boys and girls, stay in those mids to lower elevations! Powder is still round those areas!

YES.

In short, listen to Alecs:

I see nothing's changed here since yesterday, including the stellar epic sick freshnass to be had. We had 5 on the slope today, still nothing. Mountain Mark (that's your new nickname) decided he better submit an ob worthy of UAC standards so we dug a pit. NE aspect at ~9,500 in BCC. 85cm total snowpack, 55cm of that was new storm snow (starting last thursday night or so). There was a tiny discrepancy within the storm, one at 25 cm. Whacked the fuck out of an extended column (that's how I was taught in my avy courses) and nothing. But who gives a fuck anyway, its dangerous out there, stay inside at all costs.

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RIP good buddy, thanks for the stoke, and a beautiful day in the mountains.

[Trackhead]

Diversions: No obs, just tweaker stoke.

12x12 portable wall tent with wood stove. Sets up in less than 30 minutes. This thing removes any limitations for where your "yurt" might be located. Stays nice and toasty with the wood stove. Easy to tow behind sled or other tracked vehicle. You may, or may not, see it on the outer perimeter of the sheep pen.

[Johnny Deep]

Vibes to the family and friends.



Some serious issues in here.


This years snow pack is as unpredicatable as this noob jong has seen.

Those who makes claims like "The Alta Permeter never slides" are fvcking idiots.

Stay frosty out there!

[Skidog]

Diversions: No obs, just tweaker stoke.

12x12 portable wall tent with wood stove. Sets up in less than 30 minutes. This thing removes any limitations for where your "yurt" might be located. Stays nice and toasty with the wood stove. Easy to tow behind sled or other tracked vehicle. You may, or may not, see it on the outer perimeter of the sheep pen.

FKNA awesome.

[PowerWhore7]

Can someone please post up a list of books on avalanches that are must reads for us BC jongs. Thanks in advance...

RIP young man Alx88

[Kowboy]

Me n skifishface gots to flappin via phone and comes to agreement no more hatin on cornice droppin avy unprofessionals jongs cuz best to contact us about grievance then spewin first when maggots is dyin an no more noob jongs callin out veteran maggots by name fuelin anger on both sides done watched facets grow 40 days and 40 nights might feel solid underfoot til ya go for ridez

-out

seriously, thanks for chattin this morning skifishbum and sorry for the ill feelings and the loss of a friend, glad we worked it out. Piece

KOW

[Wolfmansbro]

^^
A start... IMO

Snow Sense - Read this at least once a year and I even carry it with me for some reminders once in awhile
The Avalanche Handbook - Read this and UNDERSTAND it. Use it like a text book, great reference
Staying alive in avalanche terrain - A book we all know and love.

And once you think you know avalanches read The Wasatch tours Volumes 1-3 so you know where to go to avoid skiing in avalanche terrain, that way you hopefully never have to use the beacon and probe skills that you first and foremost learned at the Avy Class which you took while reading these books. Hope that helps. Stay safe

[altacoup]

Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper (lead UAC forecaster). The quantity of absolute ignorance on this and many other threads on this site is rather depressing. Think I'll remove myself from all of this nonsense. Stay safe out there people, use your heads and instincts together, don't be afraid to turn around, don't be afraid to be afraid. It is really really scary out there.

RIP Alex

[PowerWhore7]

@ Wolfmansbro & sgsbet86

Right on fellas and thanks for the info! I am based out the Eastern Sierra and have my Avi 1 course scheduled & paid for 3/17-3/19 but I would still be interested in reading the Wasatch Tours vol 1-3 along with others.

[Xover]

seriously, thanks for chattin this morning skifishbum and sorry for the ill feelings and the loss of a friend, glad we worked it out. Piece

KOW

Now that's ^ the quality of people I have come to know you two to be. Good on ya for sure and my offer for the shots and sumo wrestle after still stand

[skifishbum]

Can someone please post up a list of books on avalanches that are must reads for us BC jongs. Thanks in advance...

RIP young man Alx88

that whiich you seek is in the slide zone
if you ever run into apd thank him and tgr420 for creating it
all good cowboy I apologuise again for my community based passions
there aint any other place like this place and the quality mags that make it so.
Don't think because I and many others feel that the practice of cornice cutting/dropping not to see if it will avvy but how large it will is not neccesary and encouraging others to do so is a dangerous practice in small range that sees a lot of traffic, doesn't mean I don't hold you and the rest of the uac crew and that which you do in very high reguard. I hope you stick around and take the time to try and find out what maggots are about, it's changed and continues to change, but this aint Xovers ma & pa's facefuck account
A88 was a damn fine mag. I'm not sure why it appears he had the need to ski that particular line in these conditions but imo a lot had to do with a drive to get after it. Which last season was fine and rewarded as a lot of people got to slay classic lines in stellar conditions. rip alx thanks for sharing that has to be tough to do, but you pretty much nailed it. Do what you can to be the best partner you can be.

[jmedslc]

Me n skifishface gots to flappin via phone and comes to agreement no more hatin on cornice droppin avy unprofessionals jongs cuz best to contact us about grievance then spewin first when maggots is dyin an no more noob jongs callin out veteran maggots by name fuelin anger on both sides done watched facets grow 40 days and 40 nights might feel solid underfoot til ya go for ridez

-out

seriously, thanks for chattin this morning skifishbum and sorry for the ill feelings and the loss of a friend, glad we worked it out. Piece

KOW

LOL, spoken in the skifishbum tongue...only a bum could understand.

Seriously Kowboy, good on ya. You do a great job, every damn day!

Drew's drama queening on the other hand . . . I could use less of. . .

[JTrue]

Diversions: No obs, just tweaker stoke.

12x12 portable wall tent with wood stove. Sets up in less than 30 minutes. This thing removes any limitations for where your "yurt" might be located. Stays nice and toasty with the wood stove. Easy to tow behind sled or other tracked vehicle. You may, or may not, see it on the outer perimeter of the sheep pen.

How do we make reservations . Pretty rad, how much does it weigh?

[skifishbum]

LOL, spoken in the skifishbum tongue...only a bum could understand.

Seriously Kowboy, good on ya. You do a great job, every damn day!

Drew's drama queening on the other hand . . . I could use less of. . .

you should do the april 1 report in sfb stream of stonerness
I don't even read drews reports because of that repeated excessive dqing, but if he thinks it works and helps keep people safe well it's your website.
Same as my feelings about droppin packs or touring with only a shovel probe and two cans of red bull is unprofessional and not a good practice or example, but everyone is free to recreate with the gear they feel they need.
x in the lcc bars every fri after class feild days, i guess mollies G's or the squirell aint core enough.
Stop in irish car bombs is legals now aint it?
cackle ya soon.

[F#*k you cat]

Me n skifishface gots to flappin via phone and comes to agreement no more hatin on cornice droppin avy unprofessionals jongs cuz best to contact us about grievance then spewin first when maggots is dyin an no more noob jongs callin out veteran maggots by name fuelin anger on both sides done watched facets grow 40 days and 40 nights might feel solid underfoot til ya go for ridez

-out

that is sum good ol lovin right there. and in stoner ebonics.

gald you 2 made all kissy face and all is good in the internetz hate - no hate world.

Sucks to hear about avy accidents. Trust me I know a little about losing loved ones.
KOWBOY has to deal with this in a way no internet jockey has to.
Maggots loose a young skilled member of the tribe and wonder - question - armchair QB. Point is ALX chose a slope and did not make it out. These facets are scarry and no hint of increasing stability will sure up that buried HOAR. another maggot said don't trust a hoar no matter how deep she is.

peace
CAT

Note to SFB
you mean the 4/20 avy report in stoner bonics right?

[MultiVerse]

I was one of the two people with Alecs, a top notch dude, and a great rider.

Alecs's stoke to post ratio is amazing. We crossed paths a few times last season and he always looked like he was having more fun than anyone. Out in front always charging. People who don't ski or who do ride but don't go into the backcountry have a hard time understanding why we spend so much time and effort doing this and I've shown his videos to family and friends in response to questions about where I've toured and what it's like. No video can truly capture the experience but I enjoy watching his work more than I enjoy watching slicker stuff with bigger budgets. God's speed Alecs.

Wasatch Powderbird Guides pulled out all the stops to help mags in need. Everyone will have their own opinion, but they stopped at nothing, and were nothing less than heroic.

At the time of the accident WPG was probably less than half a mile away or, if not, en route to the area. It's a good thing that they were close by on Saturday. They also assist UDOT with control work which hopefully helps open the highway just a little bit sooner. Their presence is not all bad but on balance, in my opinion, they are more noxious than beneficial but I am happy they were able to respond quickly. Days like Saturday almost make a person want to say, fuck hoars, get money instead.

[Johnny Deep]

that whiich you seek is in the slide zone
if you ever run into apd thank him and tgr420 for creating it
all good cowboy I apologuise again for my community based passions
there aint any other place like this place and the quality mags that make it so.
Don't think because I and many others feel that the practice of cornice cutting/dropping not to see if it will avvy but how large it will is not neccesary and encouraging others to do so is a dangerous practice in small range that sees a lot of traffic, doesn't mean I don't hold you and the rest of the uac crew and that which you do in very high reguard. I hope you stick around and take the time to try and find out what maggots are about, it's changed and continues to change, but this aint Xovers ma & pa's facefuck account
A88 was a damn fine mag. I'm not sure why it appears he had the need to ski that particular line in these conditions but imo a lot had to do with a drive to get after it. Which last season was fine and rewarded as a lot of people got to slay classic lines in stellar conditions. rip alx thanks for sharing that has to be tough to do, but you pretty much nailed it. Do what you can to be the best partner you can be.

'Don't seek the treasure.'

[Ice_Coaster]

Skied some low angle S/SW facing off Butler's Fork in BCC on Saturday. A few tracks before ours, but a nice mellow zone with trees and good snow. Looked like someone had ventured all the way up Gobbler's but we weren't in the mood to test that angle. Plus Bullwinkle and friends delayed our start by lounging in the skin track for awhile...