Thread: Wasatch Conditions 11-12

Whoaa.....

https://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/UA.../photo/1/large

Saw that, pretty big. Kinda makes me wonder if they cut across the Cirque on the Cool Whip traverse. Doubt they would have made it that far though so I bet it was remotely triggered from the ridge. Might not have even known it happened although that's hard to believe.

I can't really wrap my head around any of what went down yesterday and I'll just leave it at that.

Originally Posted by sfotex

Whoaa.....

https://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/UA.../photo/1/large

That is downright scary.

Originally Posted by Trackhead

That is downright scary.

Ummmmm, yeah.

Reading, watching, learning.

Great info, sobering stories. Stay safe out there.

^^^^^^^^^^^amen to that.

rog

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Aren't we all.

Isn't That the New I phone w/wasatch windigo and facets app? I still thing the Avy center and empirical obs are the best.

We can't eliminate risk completely. But we can always strive to do better.

I left the skis at home and went for a walk in the snow today with JP and some other lost and injured friends in my thoughts. It was truly good for my mind. Nice to watch the sparrows, the bugs on the snow, look up at the trees, and take on a different pace.

The mountains, snow, the forest, my friends - they are enough, a blessing in their own right. Skiing something rad is the bonus round, the icing on top. RIP.

Double whoaaaa:
(full report is up)
http://utahavalanchecenter.org/accid...alley_11132011

Originally Posted by Trackhead

I'm glad you feel in control when you're getting hammered by the white dragon. Personally, I don't give a shit how much common sense, self control, or snow science classes anyone takes. At some point, we all make mistakes in judgement, or mother earth just tricks us. Either way, nobody has any sort of "control" when you're getting hammered by an avalanche. You're at the mercy of mother nature, and that's it.

Snow science is tricky, and nobody bats 100% their entire life. You might think you're batting 100% because you haven't been rolled............yet. Spend enough time in the mountains, and you're bound to fuck up, or watch a close friend fuck up. It doesn't make you stupid or careless, it's just the way it is.

Yes but line choice has a lot to do with how severe the consequences to something sliding will be, and lines without any safe zones at all are best done only in times of extremely high confidence in the snowpack.

I was curious to hear what the justifications for that move were, whether maybe there are small safe zones at this low of coverage level, or perhaps they thought if it was going to slide it was going to do so at the top and the chute was wide enough they thought there were maybe a couple safe zones. I guess SE isnt going to tell us though because he's a little sensitive on the subject, so I'll STFU now.

Originally Posted by alto

We can't eliminate risk completely.

It doesn't hurt to at least try.

So sad.

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

I guess SE isnt going to tell us though because he's a little sensitive on the subject, so I'll STFU now.

Funny how a near death experience will make you a little sensitive. Maybe SE will have some more insight after he processes a little bit of what happened. And what do safe zones have to do with this? If there's exposure you can still get caught. Islands of safety are great if you never have to leave them, or if you can get to them if the shit hits the fan. Big if though.

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

so I'll STFU now.

itzebeher let Jah be praised

To derail the derail, I started a thread in slide zone about the JP accident.

Wow. Sunday was one of the most bizarre days I've been involved with here in the Wasatch since my arrival in 89'. I understand some of it but we'll be talking about that day for a long time to come.

Just want to add a couple of things.

First, a note on persistent weak layers. These are facets or surface hoar that get buried and produce activity through a number of storms. Faceted weak layers especially, are the cause of the majority of injuries and fatalities here in Utah. You cannot screw around with persistent weak layers as perhaps you can with a new snow only instability. You need to leave the slopes with facets alone until a decent storm comes through and no avalanches occur. The ECT is the best test that I've seen for this. After using it for a few years I think that when propagation occurs in a test it coincides pretty well with avalanche activity. So, when propagation occurs and you've heard the words "facets" or "persistent weak layer", it's time to leave it alone for a bit. As for right now, while the buried junk doesn't cover a huge chunk of the terrain if you consider all aspects above say 7000 feet, I wouldn't call it "isolated" because it appears to be present in ALL northerly facing terrain above around 9500'. While I like steep pow as much as the next "jong", I'll wait till another decent storm comes through with no avalanche activity after it, then start thinking about the following storm. I'm trying to be in it for the long haul.

Second, it is so helpful if you submit an observation to the UAC if you see or trigger an avalanche. We don't always have time to sift through the forums for these. I set up a database a few years ago and we have fields for size, trigger, aspect, etc. This makes the database quite "searchable" where people can query it to look at trends and whatnot. Like, show me all the human triggered avalanches on NE facing slopes above 9500'. After a couple of seasons we are starting to have a nice dataset to work with. I plan on setting up this search method so the public can use it soon.

Thanks a bunch,

Brett Kobernik
Utah Avalanche Center

Originally Posted by Kowboy

Wow. Sunday was one of the most bizarre days I've been involved with here in the Wasatch since my arrival in 89'. I understand some of it but we'll be talking about that day for a long time to come.

Just want to add a couple of things.

First, a note on persistent weak layers. These are facets or surface hoar that get buried and produce activity through a number of storms. Faceted weak layers especially, are the cause of the majority of injuries and fatalities here in Utah. You cannot screw around with persistent weak layers as perhaps you can with a new snow only instability. You need to leave the slopes with facets alone until a decent storm comes through and no avalanches occur. The ECT is the best test that I've seen for this. After using it for a few years I think that when propagation occurs in a test it coincides pretty well with avalanche activity. So, when propagation occurs and you've heard the words "facets" or "persistent weak layer", it's time to leave it alone for a bit. As for right now, while the buried junk doesn't cover a huge chunk of the terrain if you consider all aspects above say 7000 feet, I wouldn't call it "isolated" because it appears to be present in ALL northerly facing terrain above around 9500'. While I like steep pow as much as the next "jong", I'll wait till another decent storm comes through with no avalanche activity after it, then start thinking about the following storm. I'm trying to be in it for the long haul.

Second, it is so helpful if you submit an observation to the UAC if you see or trigger an avalanche. We don't always have time to sift through the forums for these. I set up a database a few years ago and we have fields for size, trigger, aspect, etc. This makes the database quite "searchable" where people can query it to look at trends and whatnot. Like, show me all the human triggered avalanches on NE facing slopes above 9500'. After a couple of seasons we are starting to have a nice dataset to work with. I plan on setting up this search method so the public can use it soon.

Thanks a bunch,

Brett Kobernik
Utah Avalanche Center

good to have you, post often.

Originally Posted by Kowboy

Wow. Sunday was one of the most bizarre days I've been involved with here in the Wasatch since my arrival in 89'. I understand some of it but we'll be talking about that day for a long time to come.

Brett - Just want to say thanks for all that you guys do. What went down on sunday has been on my mind a lot lately. I can't imagine how hard it is to be in your position, the forecast for sunday could not have been more clear. Yet people still went out and skied...EVERYTHING. There were slides on almost all aspects and all faces at alta. It really makes me wonder what kind of decisions people are making.

Something I picked up from a book and always remember is, we all think we are the stars of our own movie, its easy to think accidents won't happen to us, but the truth is we are just uncredited extras..

and having avy gear doesnt mean shit when you get bounced and tumbled through trees and over rocks.

Brett, I agre with rip. thanks for all you guys do!

On an unrelated note, does anybody want to get out tomorrow, dig around, and be snow nerds. I haven't gotten out since October 6th and want to see whats going on up there with my own eyes.
A little background on me: avy 2, wfr, hoping to do a masters in snow science.

I'm thinking late afternoon at 3:30ish in grizzly

Hey guys if had a rail or box jump that you carried up to Alta in the last few weeks near Wildcat lift, we moved them down to the west side of The GMD Motherlode shop for you to pick up. They will probably get trashed if you wait until Friday when Alta opens but they are there to be retrieved unharmed for the next two days.

Originally Posted by camlax

Brett, I agre with rip. thanks for all you guys do!

On an unrelated note, does anybody want to get out tomorrow, dig around, and be snow nerds. I haven't gotten out since October 6th and want to see whats going on up there with my own eyes.
A little background on me: avy 2, wfr, hoping to do a masters in snow science.

I'm thinking late afternoon at 3:30ish in grizzly

Nice! we need to ski when I'm back in town, early january.

Originally Posted by hardkorps

Hey guys if had a rail or box jump that you carried up to Alta in the last few weeks near Wildcat lift, we moved them down to the west side of The GMD Motherlode shop for you to pick up. They will probably get trashed if you wait until Friday when Alta opens but they are there to be retrieved unharmed for the next two days.

thanks for that sweet psa/ob but this aint newschoolers
so what up in the bcc somebody go ski egp jclem or somethin round hidden or 1020 and report please
wow posted some significant slide cycle shots from silver on tt

Originally Posted by Kowboy

Second, it is so helpful if you submit an observation to the UAC if you see or trigger an avalanche. We don't always have time to sift through the forums for these. I set up a database a few years ago and we have fields for size, trigger, aspect, etc. This makes the database quite "searchable" where people can query it to look at trends and whatnot. Like, show me all the human triggered avalanches on NE facing slopes above 9500'. After a couple of seasons we are starting to have a nice dataset to work with. I plan on setting up this search method so the public can use it soon.

It was asked last season... why did "The Good Stuff" view of obs/incidents disappear from the menus. I spent an entire season typing "good stuff" into the search box. Which takes you here:
http://utahavalanchecenter.org/services

... a collection of good information otherwise hidden. Am I missing something? Why is this buried?

Originally Posted by stevesliva

It was asked last season... why did "The Good Stuff" view of obs/incidents disappear from the menus. I spent an entire season typing "good stuff" into the search box. Which takes you here:
http://utahavalanchecenter.org/services

... a collection of good information otherwise hidden. Am I missing something? Why is this buried?

buried? all you have to do is click the current conditions tab in the upper left to get to that page.

It isn't buried at all bud. go to the frontage, then just click on current conditions...So I guess your missing something
Doesn't everyone know about this? It's great stuff and I think I learn alot from it.
Submitting observations is key!

Don't forget that UAC needs our money. Go to their web site, http://utahavalanchecenter.org/advisory/slc, then click on "Donate" on the main menu tab. Whatever amount you can give, small or large, will help -- you, me, all our ski and boarder buddies -- maybe even help save our lives.