Thread: lib tech pow nas 181...knuckle dragger no more!

Bought a pair last year....put a 100 days on them.....

I usually snowboard 100 days a year....

Now my snowboard collects dust....

Even bought a pair of 178cm lib horsepower for spring/crud days.

So this knuckle dragger went back to skiing.....

I think they got a good thing going with mag~traction....

Any thoughts?

couldnt really say but the concept seems solid, I wonder though I feel like it would detract from alot of the smear/slarve/shash/whatever types of turns that are such an advantage with certain types of new skis out there

Other than the format you put your OP in, I am stoked you like them

I have some of the 188 Freerides and they are my hard snow, spring slush ski. The Magnetraction really works...

I picked up a lightly used set of 191's NAS POWs at the end of last year . . only a few days on them, but really digging the way they handle both normal and smear turns. Big tip on them, but the rocker keeps them from being "hooky". Railed turns on the groomers better than expected and great grip on long traverses. Confidence inspiring everywhere.

MY skis /.////////////....yeah./////..my skis.....have mag-na traction......
their better than most!
If my skis...and your skis....were gonna fight........//// mine would win....
magna-traction plus one! with salomon binds....any.

WTF

is that engrish?

I was once a knuckle dragger, Magnetraction for sure makes a difference on a snowboard. My lady still rides a gay tray, and she won't ride one that doesn't have MTX.

Originally Posted by PhiberAwptik

My lady still rides a gay tray

Dude, quit looking down on yourself.

Originally Posted by arroyonm

Bought a pair last year....put a 100 days on them.....

I usually snowboard 100 days a year....Now my snowboard collects dust....

Even bought a pair of 178cm lib horsepower for spring/crud days. So this knuckle dragger went back to skiing.....

I think they got a good thing going with mag~traction....

Any thoughts?

Libtechs are solid skis. I have been on the JJ's, Bentchetlers and lots of Line skiis (Opus, Bacons, Blends) in the past 3 years.

I now have the 178 NAS Freerides (2012) for ice/spring/no powder days and 181 NAS Pows (2011) for the deeper days. I also kept my 185 Line Opus's for an "easy fun" ski which are set up for sidecountry with Barons but I have not used the Opus's much at Baker since I got the LibTechs a month ago.

I think the magne traction is perfect for inbounds where you need a wide ski for the pow stashes but also a ski that will bite on the tracked out/icier sections. Perfect ski for Mt Baker.....where you see a ton of LibTechs. Baker gets lots of snow but is tracked out inbounds by 10 am, then you need a pow ski that can carve in the sections where the pow is pushed aside (by those dam boarders!).

Anyway, tried my first magne traction skiis on a demo in late Feb.....and then bought a set of Libtech Freerides that night. One thing I noticed about magne traction. I have skiied 40 days this year.....the last 10 days on the LibTechs. I find my leg muscles are sore after skiing the LibTechs (vs the Opus). But I think that is because I am way faster on Libs, cause they just motor. With the magne traction you can rip from pow to ice to crud and never have to slow down. But it takes more effort to go that much faster which is why I am so sore afterwards.

Found one day at Baker when it was super sticky heavy snow that you have to stay awake on the grippy cat tracks.....as the magne traction is a bit hooky on the icy flats. I also wonder what it will be like to tune?

I can see always having some LibTechs in the quiver from now on.

K

It's patented...no other ski maker has the rights to use it but I would like to see Lib-Tech license it and see what other ski manufacturers can do with it. If they were able to license this technology for only $2/pair, they would likely make more on the licensing than they do on their entire ski manufacturing operation.

I've only just discovered Magne-traction (one day on a pair of 188cm Magic Horsepowers) and any skepticism I had instantly vanished. I loved these skis from the first five turns on hardpack and (10 seconds later) the first five turns in a foot of fresh powder. I finally tried the wavy edged skis after I met at least 20 people who said it really worked (and not one person I met had tried it said it was no good). Most of the people I talked to who had used Magnetraction were extremely positive about it, the remaining said they could notice it helped a bit. All said it provided a more positive and more consistent edge-hold and carving, especially on difficult and variable surfaces.

As much as I am impressed with my new Lib Magic Horsepowers, it's inexcusable that the manufacturer doesn't provide full specifications - what's with not having a published weight? Why does the manufacturer list the relative flex level of all their models except the Magic Horsepower? These two omissions make it impossible to meaningfully compare the Magic HP NAS to the Lib Freeride NAS which has identical dimensions. For those who are curious, I've weighed my pair of 188 cm Magic HP's at 4012 grams or 8.8 lbs w/o binders which seems acceptably light for a 188 cm ski with a measurement of 144-100-128

And what's with the bassackwards binding position indicator? All Lib Tech skis have a handy indexing scale showing the sweet spot of boot center and indexes at -4cm to +2 cm. But I've always called a forward binding mounting position as "+" and rearward mount as "-". Lib does it opposite, apparently just to be different.

The fact that they are a very small manufacturer is probably why it's so difficult to learn these details before purchase but I don't think it's a good excuse. I was also concerned about build quality but, it turns out that I need not have worried. They appear very well constructed. The only negative I discovered was that the bases did not appear to be waxed very thoroughly and there was a hint of rust visible between the edges and base material when viewed with a 50X loupe. Feedback from others indicate these are durable, tough skis with the possible exception of cosmetic damage to the top-sheet caused by repeated edge contact.

One other thing, I have not had the opportunity to ski the Lib Freeride NAS which has identical dimensions but it is my understanding that it is a stiffer, heaver option. This may or may not be accurate as it is just hearsay info.

Sorry these comments go way beyond the effect of Magnetraction but it was quite difficult for me to get enough info on the various Magne-traction equipped offerings and hopefully this will help others make a good decision. And if Lib-Tech is listening, please provide more info on your website about the Magic HP. I realize this is one of your newer offerings but, what are you waiting for, the Fourth of July??

Good words....skis great on most all terrain except the sketchy death ice pack groomer/cat tracks. I think they need better quality control like you said also. I did test a next year ski (179 prototype with a yellow base) on the death pack crud at snowbasin recently. It had a softer flex i felt. It skied better than my 178 horsepowers, or my 181 pow nas in these conditions...so i guess stay tuned. At least someone has the brains up in washington to think outside the box. Regardless, these magne-tractions skis have def. made me a better skier.

Originally Posted by arroyonm

Regardless, these magne-tractions skis have def. made me a better skier.

Wait - made you a better skier, or allowed you to ski better?

heads up if your hauling a tbog! things can get shaky when you are flat base.

otherwise, all the gravy and biscuits. I am on my 4th round of libs and I see no end in sight.

Originally Posted by AweShuksan

I've only just discovered Magne-traction (one day on a pair of 188cm Magic Horsepowers) and any skepticism I had instantly vanished. I loved these skis from the first five turns on hardpack and (10 seconds later) the first five turns in a foot of fresh powder. I finally tried the wavy edged skis after I met at least 20 people who said it really worked (and not one person I met had tried it said it was no good). Most of the people I talked to who had used Magnetraction were extremely positive about it, the remaining said they could notice it helped a bit. All said it provided a more positive and more consistent edge-hold and carving, especially on difficult and variable surfaces.

You've probably noticed they have a cult-like following at Baker. I was riding the chair with two guys on Lib Techs a while back - one on Freeride NASs and the other on a different model, and they spent the first half of the ride talking about their skis. I asked if they worked for Lib Tech, but they were just fan-boys. They spent the second half of the ride trying to convince me to buy a pair.

Originally Posted by Schemeboat

heads up if your hauling a tbog! things can get shaky when you are flat base.

Fully rockered skis are not expected to be as good as single camber skis when running flat on base. I don't think what you've noticed has anything to do with the wavy edges but probably the full rocker.

That said, I did not notice any issues with them running base flat. In fact, I was surprised how well the Magic HP's 188 cm tracked while base flat but I have not tried them on a really hard surface. Why would you be running base flat when hauling a sled? It's preferred to be lightly on one edge or the other, especially if you have an injured person! Which model and length are you referring to?

Originally Posted by pisteoff

You've probably noticed they have a cult-like following at Baker. I was riding the chair with two guys on Lib Techs a while back - one on Freeride NASs and the other on a different model, and they spent the first half of the ride talking about their skis. I asked if they worked for Lib Tech, but they were just fan-boys. They spent the second half of the ride trying to convince me to buy a pair.

Hehe, they were probably just stoned and having an awesome day, lol!

Did you ever try them?

Originally Posted by AweShuksan

Fully rockered skis are not expected to be as good as single camber skis when running flat on base. I don't think what you've noticed has anything to do with the wavy edges but probably the full rocker.

That said, I did not notice any issues with them running base flat. In fact, I was surprised how well the Magic HP's 188 cm tracked while base flat but I have not tried them on a really hard surface. Why would you be running base flat when hauling a sled? It's preferred to be lightly on one edge or the other, especially if you have an injured person! Which model and length are you referring to?

Lib tech does not make a fully rockered ski. What I noticed was side to side movement relative to flat base when rolling at high speeds on hardpack. I would be building speed to get through a flat section. Edge to edge, I agree, they hold like a bad mother, and in the instance you need bite on a steep slope, they are the bees knees. If you feel like staying on edge the whole time, it's a great scene.
Anyways, it only happened once when I had my POWs on, so keep in mind that it can get sporty! Once you ski these with a bit of camber underfoot (the magichp are zero camber) you will notice that they do indeed track with a bit of side to side if you are running base flat. No bs. And this is my 3rd pair. It is what it is, and you just need to pay attention.

Originally Posted by Schemeboat

Lib tech does not make a fully rockered ski.

True, my bad. I meant tip and tail rocker.

What I noticed was side to side movement relative to flat base when rolling at high speeds on hardpack. I would be building speed to get through a flat section. Edge to edge, I agree, they hold like a bad mother, and in the instance you need bite on a steep slope, they are the bees knees. If you feel like staying on edge the whole time, it's a great scene.
Anyways, it only happened once when I had my POWs on, so keep in mind that it can get sporty! Once you ski these with a bit of camber underfoot (the magichp are zero camber) you will notice that they do indeed track with a bit of side to side if you are running base flat. No bs. And this is my 3rd pair. It is what it is, and you just need to pay attention.

What length are your POWs and why did you go through three pair? Bees knees, I like it!

It looks to me like the Magic HP have camber underfoot. Photos on the Rocker photo thread (post #188):
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...w-thread/page8

Originally Posted by AweShuksan

True, my bad. I meant tip and tail rocker.



What length are your POWs and why did you go through three pair? Bees knees, I like it!

I usually put about 100 days a season on my skis. I sold the pairs of Freerides I had, never used them, the pow was too versatile. 191's always, and multiple pairs because of the multiple year Lib Tech bender I have been on. You will freaking love those magic hp's, and if I wasn't so broke, we would be having a discussion about the versatility of those as well!

Originally Posted by AweShuksan

Hehe, they were probably just stoned and having an awesome day, lol!

Did you ever try them?

They definitely weren't stoned, but they were having a good day. It was the day after a storm, and it was cold and hard inbounds, but hemis and gunners were still holding the previous day's pow. The canyon was like a bumpy skating rink. Their conversation was along the lines of which model was better for which conditions. I think one guy owned, and the other was demoing. Normally, I would have ignored them, but the wavy-gravy appealed to my inner geek. And, no I've never tried them.

Originally Posted by Schemeboat

You will freaking love those magic hp's, and if I wasn't so broke, we would be having a discussion about the versatility of those as well!

I'm psyched to get back out on them. I really liked the energy they had without being too springy and the way they initiated turns and exited turns in pow and packed. I'm just bummed I broke two ribs my first day out on them (not the skis fault). So it will probably be a few more weeks. Thankfully there is a generous snowpack!

I think it's cool they are made from basalt fiber which has properties closer to carbon fiber than glass fiber and costs less than carbon fiber. Basalt fiber is spun from molten basalt which is essentially lava. Near the entrance to Mt. Baker Ski Area there are prominent outcroppings of hexagonal basalt columns so the Lib Tech's must feel right at home there.

Hi,

Owning a season's pass at Mt. Baker you almost feel the need to be skiing on Lib Techs there as you see tons of them at Baker.

What is the difference between the Freeride NAS and the Magic HP NAS, other than the basalt fiber topsheet on the Magic HP? Tip/waist/tail specs look the same?

K

Originally Posted by kc_7777

What is the difference between the Freeride NAS and the Magic HP NAS, other than the basalt fiber topsheet on the Magic HP? Tip/waist/tail specs look the same?

I'm not sure - Magic Horsepower is their latest freeride model but the Lib Tech website must be stoned (or something). No weight or flex specs for the Magic HP and the season is already winding down.

But it does say the Magic HP is made entirely from basalt fiber so it's more than just a top sheet - the actual top sheet is a bean derived bio plastic that Lib claims has the "highest strength-to-weight ratio of any top sheet in the industry". My interpretation of the website is that the type of construction of the Magic and Freeride are essentially the same but the "quasi-isotropic" layup is all fiberglass in the Freeride and all basalt fiber in the Magic HP. They may have adjusted the number of plies and/or weight of the cloth to accommodate the different properties of basalt vs. fiberglass and perhaps the desired flex. Both are claimed to be "quasi-isotropic" which probably just means the layups are of alternating orientation (90 degrees/45 degrees) to provide torsional rigidity. The cores in these models may be made of different species of wood because the Magic HP is claimed to be made of "Columbian Gold eco-wood" while the Freeride just claims "hand selected dead trees".

My pair of Magic HP's have 8% less weight than the specs for the same length Freeride NAS's. I do know that basalt fiber allows a lighter layup for the same stiffness but I do not know how the flex actually compares. Maybe whoever is responsible for updating the Lib Tech Website will provide data for their newest model before summer arrives and we can unravel this mystery. Or perhaps I'll run into someone with the same boot sole length who is skiing the Freerides and we can trade for a run or two.

More data from the Lib Tech dealer in Tahoe:

http://www.shorelinesnowboards.com/s...og/tag/mervin/

According to the flex rating of 7.5 published on the link above, the Magic Horsepower NAS has the same flex rating as the Freeride NAS but, if you believe the promo hype in the dealer video on the same page, the Magic HP is the more rippin' ski. Personally, I think it's probably just a bit lighter and costs more due to the more expensive basalt fiber.

If you wanna demo some Lib's in the SLC area, or are visiting the area....There is boot fitting shop at the top of 33rd south...2 blocks down from from REI.....next to 2nd tracks sports....Its called INKLINE. Hit them up for demo.