Thread: Flat tax, Fair tax, consumption tax

Putting aside ideology and political views, does anyone disagree that the Fed tax code should be burned, the IRS dismantled or greatly reduced and the country move forward with one of these 3 choices as an alternative? Aside from tax attorneys, consultants and the tax prep/accounting industry taking it in the nuts, it seems like most everyone can agree on this. Is it possible to get rid of all other forms of taxation if we substitute them with a VAT? Maybe the only exemptions would be for necessities such as food, shelter, clothing, educational products, etc?

Replace ALL taxes with a VAT?

$73 hamburgers?

The very wealthy would LOVE a VAT-only tax system. But I think daily life would become very expensive for everybody else.

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Originally Posted by Alaskan Rover

Replace ALL taxes with a VAT?

$73 hamburgers?

The very wealthy would LOVE a VAT-only tax system. But I think daily life would become very expensive for everybody else.

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Unknown if there is an acceptable rate that would generate enough money. Life's necessities (another subject of debate) would be exempted so at least the poor would be exempted to some degree.

Just felt like pasting this in
http://usdebtclock.org/index.html

And you must vist the (Port Report) on a regular Basis/
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/?p=WashingtonWaste

Like most things in life it is not as simple as the choices given. The current system needs a major overhaul, or maybe just scraped and start over. Unfortunately starting over would likely be pretty traumatic. Some combination of taxes would work best, because each has its own advantages/disadvantages. A flat tax is very regressive, as is a pure consumption/VAT/sales tax. A tiered tax is more progressive, but does hinder some investments etc.

A low VAT and a moderate tiered tax, with a few limited deductions may work best. Certain tax incentives maybe okay at times for various reasons, but should be very limited and have a defined life expectancy, i.e. an incentive to kick start certain industries that last maybe 3-5 years then go away automatically.

Ultimately this still does not solve the issues DBT rails against, and that is federal vs. state taxation. Personally I want to live in a united United States, not 50 independent fiefdoms.

I'm thinking a clean break off the current tax code makes more sense. The problem with trying to tweak the existing system and introducing a VAT on top of it is that it still allows for playing the tax giveaway game to special interests and the wealthy and exploiting the code to encourage or discourage behaviour which is why its such a huge pile of FAIL at this point in time. It has to be an either or proposition, imo, otherwise they'll have the power to raise taxes from both ends, income AND VAT.

I like the flat tax because it would be almost impossible for the government to manipulate votes with it. If EVERYONE is on the same program, it will be pretty fucking tough to raise taxes.

I also don't mind the idea of a national sales tax as a REPLACEMENT for the tax code. Not in addition.

I'd exempt groceries, clothing and housing. That would make it more "fair" to make you liberal douches happy.

Problem is, I can see them fucking with the exemptions and the rate untill we were in the same boat we are in today.

If they could make both rate and exemption VERY hard to change - like embed them in a constitutional amendment - then it could work.

Flat Tax on a postcard, bring back Steve Forbes.

Flat tax me please

Originally Posted by Moeghoul

Putting aside ideology and political views, does anyone disagree that the Fed tax code should be burned, the IRS dismantled or greatly reduced...................

You do realize you're suggesting a downsized and smaller government don't you?
This would result in the elimination of tens if not hundreds of thousands of IRS jobs at a time when our teetering on the brink economy can least afford it.
This sort of suggestion will surely result in you being labeled a tea partier round these parts, but at least for the sake of consistency we can now look forward to all the anti tea party folks chiming in here and telling us how since smaller govt is bad, the best thing for our economy will be an increase and expansion of the IRS.

Originally Posted by powpig

You do realize you're suggesting a downsized and smaller government don't you?
This would result in the elimination of tens if not hundreds of thousands of IRS jobs at a time when our teetering on the brink economy can least afford it.
This sort of suggestion will surely result in you being labeled a tea partier round these parts, but at least for the sake of consistency we can now look forward to all the anti tea party folks chiming in here and telling us how since smaller govt is bad, the best thing for our economy will be an increase and expansion of the IRS.

The lost IRS jobs would be a drop in the bucket compared to the lost accounting jobs.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

The lost IRS jobs would be a drop in the bucket compared to the lost accounting jobs.

Both true and all, but so what.

They are in an industry that got downsized. Deal with it.

IRS has around 100K employees as far as I can tell.

Originally Posted by Bunion

Both true and all, but so what.

They are in an industry that got downsized. Deal with it.

IRS has around 100K employees as far as I can tell.

Did I sound like I thought all those lost jobs would be a bad thing?

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

I like the flat tax because it would be almost impossible for the government to manipulate votes with it. If EVERYONE is on the same program, it will be pretty fucking tough to raise taxes.

Wow, did you suddenly run off to sweden and get that brain transplant you always wanted. That one nearly made sense. Don't let it happen again.

With a flat tax, even drug dealers will pay taxes if they buy shit. Retail is where it should be at. Don't want to pay taxes, don't buy anything - problem solved.

Originally Posted by Johnny Deep

Wow, did you suddenly run off to sweden and get that brain transplant you always wanted. That one nearly made sense. Don't let it happen again.

With a flat tax, even drug dealers will pay taxes if they buy shit. Retail is where it should be at. Don't want to pay taxes, don't buy anything - problem solved.

The sales tax gets at the black market the best but it's too easy for Politicians to play games with.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

The sales tax gets at the black market the best but it's too easy for Politicians to play games with.

Huh??? Sales tax encourages black market sales...cash becomes king. It is harder to hide income because it is generally larger, though certainly not impossible.

Originally Posted by hutash

Huh??? Sales tax encourages black market sales...cash becomes king. It is harder to hide income because it is generally larger, though certainly not impossible.

What I mean is that Eventually, the proceeds from any black market transations will go toward retail purchases which will then be taxed. As it is now, any black market money is untaxed by the federal government.