Sleeping bag quiver

[Meadow Skipper]

If I had as many bags as some of the folks here I think I'd keep quiet about it.

Pshh - my sleeping bag quiver is probably the least embarrassing collection I have. Don't ask about the mats or gloves or stoves or shovels.

And my Snowpeak gear - that's the shit that's gonna get me thrown up against the wall, comes the revolution.

[Andyski]

For summer and some of spring, I use a Lafuma Extreme 600 45 degree synthetic bag. Packs tiny, obviously, and was dirt cheap. At some point soon I need to buck up and get an FF that would probably pack just as small and be a lot warmer. I've used it sleeping in my car at Shasta in temps down into the mid-20s and only my feet were cold (forgot the big socks!). Used it in the Enchantments this past weekend where temps got down into the mid 40s at 7k+ and was perfectly warm with a baselayer and warm hat. The puffy goes on if it gets below that.

The non-summer option will likely get filled by a FF.

[old goat]

Pshh - my sleeping bag quiver is probably the least embarrassing collection I have. Don't ask about the mats or gloves or stoves or shovels.

And my Snowpeak gear - that's the shit that's gonna get me thrown up against the wall, comes the revolution.

I've got a friend with over 40 packs. Can you top that?

[BFD]

no quiver but since we are talking bags. I have a 27 year old Wilderness Experience Latok. I have used it in some extreme conditions. I would use again on a winter trip but hopefully not in as extreme conditions. I just bought a new bag for some high altitude hut trips. Mountain hardware lamina 20. I think it is a superb bag. I do not know why someone would buy a comparable down bag. The weight is about the same and you have a bag that works with wetter summer, fall trips.

[Meadow Skipper]

I've got a friend with over 40 packs. Can you top that?

No. He has my respect...and yes, a little envy.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I have a Western Mountaineering Caribou, 35 degree bag that I use most. Also have a long feathered friends Rock Wren, 25 degree bag. It has zippered arm holes and a cinch cord at the feet so you can get up and piss without getting out of the bag. Also has plenty of room for layering or stuff I don't want freezing (such wet ski boots in a trash bag).

[skimaxpower]

Anybody have any experience with Nunatak bags? Been taking a hard look at the Arc Specialist for a summer bag. I understand that it's an unconventional design, but given that down doesn't insulate when compressed, it makes sense to me. Just curious if anyone has any personal or second-hand experience.

I'm not a big fan of "sleeping quilts." I find that sleeping on the ground forces me to rotate around a lot. (Side, back, other side, etc.) Doing this in a quilt is simply not comfy and not warm.

On the CDT, I carried the Marmot Hydrogen - a more traditional design for a 30 degree bag. It's well made, and after 3,000 miles it still looks brand new. YMMV.

[neufox47]

Auvgeek - I was steered away from quilts when I said that I toss and turn a lot in my sleep. Also, the WM 32 degree bag is just as light and has a zipper.

[gointhedistance]

Depends on whether you would use the 15/20 for summer use at all.

I have one bag - TNF Nebula +15. I use that for every condition. -20 winter nights in northern minnesota - Add closed call pad, open cell pad, thermic micro bag liner, thermal base layer upper/lower. Summer time - sleep on top, or simply inside the bag liner. I love this bag - packs small for a non-ultralight bag. Works everywhere.

The only bag I would add to my quiver is a barf bag - for how sick I am.

[GeezerSteve]

I'm not a big fan of "sleeping quilts." I find that sleeping on the ground forces me to rotate around a lot. (Side, back, other side, etc.) Doing this in a quilt is simply not comfy and not warm.

Interesting. My experience is the converse. I find rolling from side to back to side, etc. is better in my pad sleeve bag (DIY modded FF Great Auk [discontinued product]) compared to a mummy bag. I've consistently heard that the ease of rolling inside is one of the advantages to a quilt system in attached-to-pad mode (at the cost of losing some heat). I'm working on modding my custom Vireo into a quilt. We'll see if I find time to do that before I start an 8-day high route on Saturday.

Pic of Nunatak quilt in attached-to-pad mode:


http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/ima...view-w-pad.jpg

[auvgeek]

Thanks Big Steve. Was about to post that picture myself. Been thinking hard about it, and I think for this next bag it just makes more sense to go with either a quilt or a sleeve bag.

I'm no expert, but this is my thinking:
When you're getting into these light weight bags, it seems like where the down is makes a big difference in the wamth: 8 oz of down on top of you has to be warmer than 4 oz above and 4 oz compressed underneath you. Thinking about it like this: there's no real difference between (reputable) bag makers if they're using the same quality down and the same fabric. So, the question is where do you want the down (above) and do you need a 2-3 oz zipper? If quilts are drafty and cold (and I'm not convinced they are), it still makes sense to go with a design that keeps the down above me: meaning Big Agnes or Nunatak Catabatic or...?

I'm prolly gonna call Nunatak and see what they think about the differences between the Arc Specialist and the Catabatic for my purpose. Thanks for your input, everybody.

[GeezerSteve]

You got it. Down is worthless inslulation if your bodyweight is compressing it.

Nunatak makes very high quality stuff. The owner is an ex-FF guy. IMV, the only downside IMV of Nunatak is that he does not offer a PTFE shell fabric. Maybe he could do a custom PTFE bag for you? I like PTFE on all my bags for PNW trips.

For comfort and rolling inside the bag, a pad sleeve bag (e.g., Big Anges) cannot be beat. But they are not all that lightweight, i.e., you pay around one pound for that additional comfort compared to a mummy of equivalent warmth. Not sure if BA does PTFE shells.

If you go with a quilt or pad sleeve bag, the BA pads (get insulated, not air) are okay, but the Exped Synmat UL 7 (3-season) and Exped Downmats (winter) are better.

ETA: My issue with the Catabolic is that you might roll on your side and expose your back -- maybe not an issue if you are a 100% back sleeper. If you are going with a quilt system, probably better to go with pad straps so you can roll with impunity.

[Kai]

My sleeping bag and sleeping pad quiver (actually only my partial bag quiver) reviewed here:

http://larsonweb.com/blog/?cat=9

[auvgeek]

Thanks again, Steve. I did notice that they don't offer a PTFE shell, but I was thinking/hoping the Epic fabric would be fine for a summer bag. It's worked fairly well on my FF Helios jacket in a light rain. I'll see what they can do for an eVent shell—if I get a winter bag, I'll definitely want it in eVent. Interestingly, I think FF has gotten away from PTFE on their lighter weight bags (they're now using Neoshell and Quantum...don't know much about either of those though). Any thoughts on a temp rating for winter use in the cascades? It's interesting how temp ratings work: Nunatak and WM 30F = 8 oz of down, but FF 30F = 11.5 oz. Big Agnes bags are actually not too bad: 30F bag w/12 oz down is only 3-4oz heavier than FF.

But there's a big difference between 17 oz, 23, and 27 oz. A few oz here, a few oz there and suddenly your pack isn't "light" anymore.

No love for the Thermarest Neoair XLite? Same R-value as the Exped Synmat UL and 4oz less. Thinking about upgrading from my tiny (S) Thermarest Prolight with a negligible weight gain—definitely will need to do something if I go with a quilt cuz the pad I have doesn't make it to my knees.

[::: :::]

I can't imagine sleeping in the winter without a vb. Maybe I just sweat like a mofo, but I use a vb (jacket and pants not liner) when it gets down to the 40s. Nothing worse than waking up to a bag soaked with sweat.

newb winter sleeping question

so the bag isn't soaked; but you are (you're still sweating, right?); and so is the vb sack...what do you do with those items when you get up in the morning? how do you dry them? where are your boot liners all night? how do they dry if in the vb sack? [i realize you said vb jacket/pants]

thx!

/newb winter sleeping question

[GeezerSteve]

auvgeek, yeah, I saw that FF has changed to the newest technology PU shell. Word is that it breathes sufficiently for down. FF is good about material selection so I would assume it's good stuff. Sourcing eVent is not easy for small manufacturers. That sucks.

As others have noted, temp ratings vary among manufacturers and among individuals. If you are dealing with 700 or better down, take a ruler and measure the loft.

Never used a NeoAir, but I know several people who have had issues, e.g., failures, noisy nights. Most of them traded in for the Exped Synmat UL 7.

acinpdx, if you are using a VB liner, you need to vent so that you do not sweat. This may sound counterintuitive: You will actually sweat less with proper use of a VB. The Stephenson Warmlite site has a good discussion of VB theory and use. Re ski boot liners, I keep them relatively dry by using VB socks, an issue I have discussed elsewhere on Gear Talk and one that I will not rehash, lest PNWBrit and Scotsman50 will further harass me.

[GeezerSteve]

Started the DIY mod of my custom FF Vireo into a quilt system. Too late to turn back now. Should have the project done in time to use it for the traverse starting Saturday.

auvgeek, sounds that you've had experience with Epic, so you know its benefits and shortcomings. It definitely repels surface water like new factory DWR and keeps doing so forever, it seems. OTOH, it aint waterproof (a relative term) like PTFE or PU. Our double bag is Epic, and I used to have a FF Rock Wren in Epic, so I have many nights in Epic shell bags. IME, it is a big step up from ripstop or taffeta, and I'd probably go with Epic if I did most of my travel in the interior west. But I am happy that I've gone with PTFE shells for my travel in the Cascade and Olympics. Tent selection, of course, also bears on sleeping bag shell selection. And note that I frequently use my PTFE-shelled bags for sleeping under the stars in clear weather. (I've also done that quite a bit with my Epic-shelled bags.)

[shafty85]

acinpdx, if you are using a VB liner, you need to vent so that you do not sweat. This may sound counterintuitive: You will actually sweat less with proper use of a VB. The Stephenson Warmlite site has a good discussion of VB theory and use. Re ski boot liners, I keep them relatively dry by using VB socks, an issue I have discussed elsewhere on Gear Talk and one that I will not rehash, lest PNWBrit and Scotsman50 will further harass me.

An informative read - thanks for that, Steve.

How do you manage to vent the VBL, in those cases when you do start to sweat? I would think that maintaining the proper venting during your sleep would be difficult/impossible without rigging some sort of system, which I imagine would require carrying extra gear? Curious to hear your/anyone's thoughts/processes on this.

[Conundrum]

WM Sequoia
WM Sycamore
WM MityLite

You might notice all of these have an extra wide foot area. I don't sleep well in the tight traditional mummy shape and don't mind the extra ounces. I have a merino wool liner, old Bibler bivy, and a BA super light one person tent if I'm by myself depending on the situation. Sometimes I sleep in the back of my truck too. It might seem excessive but I spend a lot of days in a lot of temp ranges and I like my sleep. Just in the last month, I've slept in a bag in rain, clear, and snow in temps <20*-80*. As I get older, I tend to look at my boots and my sleeping arrangements more than anything when I'm outside.

[rod9301]

I use a 20 degree Montbell ul hugger, which is a stretchy bag.

Plenty of room, and it still hugs you close, so you don't have a lot of air around you to heat.

[Name Redacted]

WM Versalite 0-5ºF (overstuffed)- Super light, but not durable so I use it sparingly. Great backpacking bag though. Not very roomy, but comfortable.

Mountain Hardwear Cloudrest 0ºF- Wife's bag but bought it large so I can use it too Probably the most comfortable and roomy bag that I have.

Marmot Dryloft Down bag -20ºF - Best thing about this is the durability/ waterproof of the outer fabric. Probably use this the most car camping in shoulder seasons and winter camping. Never cold, usually just lays on top with zipper fully open.

Marmot 30ºF rectangular bag (won this in a raffle and love it)- Awesome for sleeping on hotel room floors, hut trips, desert car camping, and emergency bag in the back of the truck.

Kelty 0ºF synthetic- really old, traveled everywhere with this bag and just can't throw it away. Duct tape repairs from overheated dryer and cig burns. Many beer stains, generally just trashed, but functional. Makes a good dog bed.

Hudge Canvas 0ºF two person bag with no brand. Inherited from inlaws. Thing must be 30 years old. Badass for Lake
Powell boat camping, car camping, throwing in the back of the truck, etc. Love this thing. Might weigh 30 lbs. Scotch guarded to protect from random midnight rainstorms in the desert while sleeping on top of the houseboat or RV.

[Lindahl]

Enlightened Equipment 40 degree quilt
Zpacks 20 degree hoodless bag
home-sewn 2-person synthetic quilt (45 deg or so? - Apex 2.5oz)

I add the 2 person quilt over my zpacks bag for lower temps - down to about 5-10 deg

I also use the 2 person with the lady in various combinations depending on temps.

[TAFKALVS]

Mountain Equipment Xero 200 for summer stuff.

Mountain Equipment Xero 550 for the shoulder season/mild winter.

Mountain Equipment Snowline SL for real winter stuff.

They are good bags. I used to work for them so slightly biased but I would say they are a mix of the best features of Montbell and Western. Stretchy baffles and light fabrics like Montbell but also solid construction and baffle designs like Western. They've been building bags from the 1960s so they know what they are doing.

I have been considering a superlight quilt for summer stuff since I often sleep with bag zipped open anyways.

[bfly]

I have been considering a superlight quilt for summer stuff since I often sleep with bag zipped open anyways.

Give a try. I picked up a Enlightened Equipment 20 degree quilt to replace my Mountain Hardwear Banner Stormlight and love it. The EE quilt breaths a lot better than the Stormlight bag and since I never zipped up the MH bag anyway the quilt made a lot of sense. Plus, it weighs less than half what the Banner did.

My other bag is a MH Tioga 0 degree Stormlight. Oldie but a goody.

[Lindahl]

FWIW, down in the 20s, I don't like quilts. The random drafts at those temps are just too damn cold. Harder to stay comfortable.