Marker Duke/Baron/Tour to Plum Guide Adapter

[10% Groomed]

^^^ I can think of a couple reasons off the top of my head.

1. Skis that are already drilled for FKS (or Duke or whatever) don't need to have more holes put in them. Just enlarge existing holes and install inserts or mount the plate permanently into existing holes.

2. It's more than a couple inserts, its a whole new binding. If I have Dukes already installed with inserts, and I want to install Dynafit, I'm looking at an additional 18 inserts to install.

3. If I already have Dukes installed its likely I won't be able to squeeze Dynafit in without the use of a plate. That combination gets too crowded for inserts, hence the original DynaDukes.

4. Plates based off of a standardized footprint will open up more binding options. If my skis are drilled for Dukes, but I have adapter plates for Dynafit and STH and FKS, then I can juggle a couple sets of bindings across several different skis.

4. Take advantage of the Duke's wider footprint.

5. Be able to run Dukes as your primary without needing to stack them up 7mm on plates. They are tall enough already. (Or whatever your primary binding of choice is.)

I'm sure I have more rattling around in my head but that's all I can handle typing on my phone.

In my perfect world, my skis would be drilled for Dukes with inserts installed. I would then buy a set of plates based on the Duke footprint for Dynafit. I would also have skis drilled for STH with inserts installed and plates based on the STH footprint for Dynafit.

I don't know how far you want to take your line of plates. It could be mostly for fun, but your work is quality. We know there is a market for people that want to swap bindings around during the season, but most don't want 20 holes and inserts in each ski. Some people have already drilled skis for STH/Duke/FKS and could only pull off a swap with plates, but don't want to add 7mm to their preferred setup.

Seriously. I can't believe I typed this all on my phone.

[1000-oaks]

Seriously. I can't believe I typed this all on my phone.

^^^^ 10% nailed it. Being a gear whore on a budget, I'd rather have lots of skis (with inserts in a standard pattern) and just a couple pair of bindings with an adapter plate for each binding (so I can use any binding on any of my skis), than a bunch of skis that need adapter plates for each & every pair.

[jondrums]

I agree with what is said above in theory.

I think the ultimate solution for a gear-whore is lots of skis and just a few bindings. You really only need one alpine binding and one touring binding.

I can see why you'd only want one hole pattern drilled in your skis, its more an issue that everyone will want that one pattern to be something different than you. For example, my ideal would be inserts for dynafits to minimize weight, adapter plates for an alpine binding.

My problem is that I can only afford to keep stock on a limited number of products, and this world expands exponentially in terms of the exact thing that someone might want.

[1000-oaks]

For example, my ideal would be inserts for dynafits to minimize weight, adapter plates for an alpine binding.

The new Dynafit Radical toe pattern helps make that happen, the bigger footprint is a lot better interface for adapter plates > alpine bindings than the tiny old Dynafit pattern. Still not as big as the Duke toe pattern, but a lot closer. Probably good enough, especially if the adapter plate is substantially wider than the drill pattern to take some of the leverage off the ski inserts when using today's superfat skis.

[10% Groomed]

...my ideal would be inserts for dynafits to minimize weight, adapter plates for an alpine binding.

That makes sense to me. My primary touring setup has inserts for dynafits. I also have the exact same ski with STH16. That kills me. Would love to have a different ski to mix things up instead of two of the same. I also have a heavier touring setup with inserts for Dukes (Czars). They are also drilled for Sollyfit plates so I can put my Dynafits on.

I wonder if there is a way to have a plate system (toe and heal piece) that has holes drilled all over the place for Dynafit/Duke/STH/FKS. The holes would be oversized with the idea that you could move stainless steel T-nuts around to the position you need to match up with your binding. Then the oversized hole would allow you to mount the plate to whatever hole pattern is already on your ski.

In example, if my skis have inserts for Dynafits, mount the plates to that pattern and stick the FKS on the plates. Or if my skis have inserts for Dukes, mount the plates to that pattern and stick my Dynafits on the plates.

Not sure if that makes any sense, but it sounds pretty good in my head. One set of plates and a bag of T-nuts to match up any combination of the four preferred bindings. Cover all the bases with a low number of stocking units. The plates would be a little bigger than they would need to be for just one pattern, and there will be issues with hitting the same center line with all bindings, but I know certain bindings share holes. (Like Duke and Dynafit and Plum.) Seems like hitting the exact center line would be a healthy sacrifice if it narrowed it all down to one plate system.

[the_eleven]

I agree with what is said above in theory.

I think the ultimate solution for a gear-whore is lots of skis and just a few bindings. You really only need one alpine binding and one touring binding.

I can see why you'd only want one hole pattern drilled in your skis, its more an issue that everyone will want that one pattern to be something different than you. For example, my ideal would be inserts for dynafits to minimize weight, adapter plates for an alpine binding.

My problem is that I can only afford to keep stock on a limited number of products, and this world expands exponentially in terms of the exact thing that someone might want.

Agree with this problem..... but Dynafit flat on the ski/FKS plate that mounts into Dyna holes is really appealing.

And you mention that you are not in favor of hybrid insert/plate systems, but there must be more than a few of your customers that are doing this with the Dynaduke/Solyfit plates; i.e. one set of plates, mounted to numerous skis using inserts.

[jondrums]

And you mention that you are not in favor of hybrid insert/plate systems, but there must be more than a few of your customers that are doing this with the Dynaduke/Solyfit plates; i.e. one set of plates, mounted to numerous skis using inserts.

I do it so I can easily test product tweaks, ect.

I suppose other people might be doing it - but I've always had the view that inserts are the best binding swapping solution IF you have the skill and patience to install them. If you don't have the skill/patience/interest, plates are good because they are much easier to install, and they can be removed to sell or re-purpose the ski.

[1000-oaks]

I suppose other people might be doing it - but I've always had the view that inserts are the best binding swapping solution IF you have the skill and patience to install them. If you don't have the skill/patience/interest, plates are good because they are much easier to install, and they can be removed to sell or re-purpose the ski.

Absolutely agree, I think the plates are GREAT for folks with a few pair of skis or less, or don't have a lot of mechanical experience.

I'm not sure how sloppy you can be installing inserts and still have them work (how crooked or how loose prior to epoxy), but I'm pretty careful installing mine - doing it on a vertical mill with digital readout for each drilling & tapping step, and stops to make sure the holes don't go too deep so the top of the insert is flush with the top of the ski. I'm sure a drill-press would also work well if you measure carefully and use a prick punch to start your holes, but I can't imagine free-handing them with a drill, unless the skis have already been drilled for that pattern with a jig. Even then I'd still use a drill-press to make sure then go in perpendicular to the ski, but obviously I have OCD.

[the_eleven]

... For example, my ideal would be inserts for dynafits to minimize weight, adapter plates for an alpine binding....

So what would be the minimum product run to produce an FKS specific plate that screws into Dynafit patterned inserts?

[jondrums]

the hole patterns are not so compatible

[1000-oaks]

If two inserts were added to the ski for the front FKS heel holes, you could make a plate that mounts to the ski using the front two FKS holes and the front two Dynafit holes.

The FKS could be permanently attached to the plate with short screws through the back two FKS holes. Then to mount the plate on the ski you use short screws through the back of the plate and long screws in the front holes (through the FKS & plate to the ski).

Kind of defeats the purpose though, but it does reduce the number of inserts needed in the ski by two. How well do the toes line up?

[TheDon]

I like where this is going. I would love to ski my dukes flat and be able to throw my plums on in the same inserted holes.

[1000-oaks]

I emailed Plum a link to this thread when I first posted it, and Alexis told me they would do something like this and asked me to not say anything about it until they had the design finalized in a month or so. That was several months ago and it's been discussed in the other Plum thread, so might as well let the cat out of the bag on this thread too.

Hopefully Plum unveils their design soon...the snow will be here any time. Hopefully Alexis leaving the company didn't derail the new "fat ski" adapter/baseplate plans. I've already started sketching out my own plates since Plum seems to run behind schedule on things (like brakes for the Guide), was hoping I wouldn't have to mill my own. Time to order an angled-tip end mill and the correct drill/countersink I guess.

[TheDon]

Sick, I REALLY like where this is going.

[Patches]

I think the ultimate is actually a non-adjustable dynafit heel plate with integrated post... the end user drill holes to whatever pattern they want and trims the plate to size. Maybe that's just me though, I like low parts count.

[TheDon]

I think the ultimate is actually a non-adjustable dynafit heel plate with integrated post... the end user drill holes to whatever pattern they want and trims the plate to size. Maybe that's just me though, I like low parts count.

I don't get what you are sayin. Trim the plate like trimming the cutting board right?

[tobias]

so anyone going to make this front plate? i'll take a set for sure!

cheers toby

[1000-oaks]

Come on Plum, let's see what you've got!

[tobias]

Anyone made a plate to go under a dynafit toe piece so you can bolt it to a duke front hole pattern with inserts, if so i want some real bad!

itching to get my new skis mounted up asap!

[1000-oaks]

Sorry guys, I just won't have time to work on making any plates anytime soon. (Day job is marketing, product photography weekends and evenings. Not much time to tinker with projects for fun.)

[North]

Bumping this thread because I made up some Dynafit -> Salomon plates. Using inserts + plates I'm able to run Dynafits flat, and Salomons on the risers. The system I'm running is about as complex as it gets, but I had my reasons:

-Wanted to run Dynafits flat
-Didn't want to add more holes to my skis (also didn't want to install 36 inserts)
-I'll be swapping bindings fewer than 4 times per year, so the added hassle of removing/adding binding + plate didn't bother me
-Designing & creating parts is something I don't get to do enough of at my current job, so projects like this keep the skills intact.

Binding Freedom inserts go into existing Dynafit pattern


Toe plate. Front Dynafit hole is .5mm off on the plate so I'm only running 4 screws. No problems so far!


Dynafit flat on right ski. Plates installed on the left.





There are definitely some things I would change on the next version; these guys had to be rushed a bit because I wanted to have them for a Whistler trip. Last, lots of pieces of this design were HEAVILY influenced by jondrum's concepts. Even after some limited testing it's easy to see the value in lots of the minute design details jondrums puts into his plates. Thanks to TGR for the inspiration, this was a fun project for sure!

[1000-oaks]

Nicely done! Was thinking about the same thing with Axial2 binders on plates that attach to Duke ski pattern.

What would you change about the way you did this set?

[North]

For one, I'd get that Dyna toe hole pattern correct! I must've measured that thing 10 times. For some reason the heel pattern was dead on on my first try, but the toes were finicky.

Second, my Sollys have to be really far back in their adjustment range to fit my alpine boots. These LAB bindings are weird and seem to have a smaller adjustment range than my 997s so maybe that's it. I might slide the Solly pattern backwards on the heel plate 5-10mm.

I'd do some more creative shelling underneath to make sure no water gets trapped between the insert & the plate. As is, it seems like water could pool in between the plate and an oversunk insert. If you were a little light on the epoxy during install that could be an issue later.

Definitely anodize in purple too

[auvgeek]

So wait, maybe I'm being a retard, but how are you holding the alpine binder to the plate? Jon's inserts, t-nuts, or did you tap the Al? I assume the latter, right?

[North]

So wait, maybe I'm being a retard, but how are you holding the alpine binder to the plate? Jon's inserts, t-nuts, or did you tap the Al? I assume the latter, right?

Totally tapped that Al

This is essentially a jondrums Sollyfit plate except the dynafit holes are countersunk through holes, since that's how they mount.