Thread: the Wasatch's new worst enemy=TALISKER

Give em this quote
"There is to be no private ownership of streams of water; ....... Walk faithfully in the light of these laws and you will be a prosperous people. - Brigham Young July 25 1847
straight from the havin visions horses mouth

ok a really big monkey wrench!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AM bump, Been keeping after it in the ksl and deseret news blogs. Lee & Hatch just gave the town of manatu some of YOUR land...whats next Red/white pine for the big Bass/Bonner??

Details from a local who is reading every line and paying attention to details.

A front page story on the Tram Scam from the SL Trib. This one was written by Mike Gorrell, who actually appears to have done more than just regurgitate a press release this time.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politic...udies.html.csp

more press on the opposition:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=960&sid=18332246

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion...-lake.html.csp

and another petition:

https://icount.com/iframe/page/iframe_id/26

i can't get that last icount link to work
Did I miss the athelete straightchuters 3 he supports and one he's against ???
Is it on his blog?????

Originally Posted by BRUTAH

more press on the opposition:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=960&sid=18332246

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion...-lake.html.csp

and another petition:

https://icount.com/iframe/page/iframe_id/26

That last petition has a pretty weak auto submission. I'd suggest typing something original, other than "not approved of by locals".

Originally Posted by Trackhead

That last petition has a pretty weak auto submission. I'd suggest typing something original, other than "not approved of by locals".

yea that's not my petition, just thought I'd share it...... i actually think multiple petitions will make it harder to get more signatures.

I'd suggest that most should stick to the change.org petition (http://www.change.org/petitions/us-c...rea-developers), unless you are going to sign all the petitions

Originally Posted by "Dendritic" on TTips

I missed the Ski Link meeting this evening at the White Pine Room, Grand Summit Hotel, Canyons Resort.

Did anyone attend? Curious as to what they are planning.

I heard about it at the last second from a friend and was able to attend it. I have no idea what it was originally billed as, but I think it was more of a strategy meeting for the proponents of the tram. After a few welcoming comments from a person named Tom (?), which included words of encouragement about seeing new faces in the room, Ted Wilson took over and diplomatically welcomed everyone again... including the opponents of the tram, which constituted about 50% of the crowd of 12.

Ted went over what happened in Washington and banged on the hollow transportation drum for a bit. When asked why he/Talisker decided to do the Congressional end-run around the local government and Forest Service, Ted explained, without a bit of irony, that it was because after repeated talks with the Forest Service, they weren't getting the answer they wanted, so really, folks, we had no choice.

There was a bit of discussion about where the numbers for their study came from, which basically led back to "we hired first class firms to prepare these reports for us."

But, for me, the lightbulb moment came when one of the proponents of the tram mentioned that "there are 4,000 empty beds here." I don't know if "here" meant in all of Park City, or just the Canyons, but it crystallized my understanding of the issue, as just the day before I had heard another person talking about how how many empty beds there were in Whistler/Blackcomb as well. Forget future expansion, ticket sales, etc. - the real issue is that ski towns have built it, and the people are not coming. Like the American housing issue in general, there is way too much inventory, and in the case of ski resorts, way too much competition. This was clearly illustrated on the walk back to the car after the meeting, as the entire Canyons village was beyond dead, like, not a single person, vacant parking lots, dark hotel windows, empty restaurants and closed, or deserted retail shops.

In a tradition ski town, this would be bad news, but at least the pain would be spread out over individual shops, hotels, bars and the ski resort. In the new era of company ski towns (Vail, Whistler, Canyons, etc.) where a single company owns everything, this has got to be crushing. Ticket sales are a distant subset of the "filled beds" equation, which includes everything from ice cream, dinner, bar tabs, pay per view tv, hot stone massages, boot fitting, tips, gifts and mini bars.

The Canyons has the worst snow and skiing of the seven major Utah resorts, and a surplus of beds. The tram is an attempt to get people to stay in the Canyons, yet still have access to the vastly superior skiing in LCC and BCC. In that regard, their transportation study is more like a wishful fantasty - they would love it if 200 people a day stayed at the Canyons and then drove around to ski in the Cottonwood Canyons, carbon emissions be damned. Instead, people stay in SLC or Park City, try the skiing at the Canyons once and never come back.

It's hard not to see this as yet another attempt at a government bailout for bad real estate and investment decisions. Talisker is overbuilt and now they want the government and the people of the US to give them public land so they can dig themselves out of their hole.

The TramScam proponents have set up a Facebook page called "Ski Our Canyons Responsibly" which has all of their meeting info and more propaganda than you can shake a ski pole at. If you are interested in attending one of their future monthly meetings, this is where they are announced.

Originally Posted by SmokeyBear

Did I miss the athelete straightchuters 3 he supports and one he's against ???
Is it on his blog?????

I'll send it to you in a personal message Carmen. Do what you want with it.

i would think the cranyons has better snow and skiing right now then both beaver or eagle point neither which is open yet but not surprised at your lack of knowledge.
pm???? real men don't do things behind closed doors and in back rooms thats so political
post er up athelete bro

Originally Posted by skifishbum

i would think the cranyons has better snow and skiing right now then both beaver or eagle point neither which is open yet but not surprised at your lack of knowledge.
pm???? real men don't do things behind closed doors and in back rooms thats so political
post er up athelete bro

On second thought, you're right. Screw the PM. You've got some bone to pick with me and I'd much rather work it out on the skin track.

sorry but i'm spansered by atlas now and no longer skin
the extreme snoeshow market is fixin to blow up
no bone pickin just amused by your "let me tell you what i would do" without substance or examples

Originally Posted by StraightChuter

On second thought, you're right. Screw the PM. You've got some bone to pick with me and I'd much rather work it out on the skin track.

ladies and gentlemen, we have a skin off!

andrew,
was there any talk of where/what, exactly, these estimated 500+ annual jobs are going to come from/be?

Overbuilt and under snowed, they need a 150" more of good snow not a tram. Once people get a taste of the BCC goods they will not be going back to the canyons on said tram. PS great letter to the editor from my old buddy Rainer Huck (sl trib) and you think I'am a crank!

Originally Posted by StraightChuter

I heard about it at the last second from a friend and was able to attend it. I have no idea what it was originally billed as, but I think it was more of a strategy meeting for the proponents of the tram. After a few welcoming comments from a person named Tom (?), which included words of encouragement about seeing new faces in the room, Ted Wilson took over and diplomatically welcomed everyone again... including the opponents of the tram, which constituted about 50% of the crowd of 12.

Ted went over what happened in Washington and banged on the hollow transportation drum for a bit. When asked why he/Talisker decided to do the Congressional end-run around the local government and Forest Service, Ted explained, without a bit of irony, that it was because after repeated talks with the Forest Service, they weren't getting the answer they wanted, so really, folks, we had no choice.

There was a bit of discussion about where the numbers for their study came from, which basically led back to "we hired first class firms to prepare these reports for us."

But, for me, the lightbulb moment came when one of the proponents of the tram mentioned that "there are 4,000 empty beds here." I don't know if "here" meant in all of Park City, or just the Canyons, but it crystallized my understanding of the issue, as just the day before I had heard another person talking about how how many empty beds there were in Whistler/Blackcomb as well. Forget future expansion, ticket sales, etc. - the real issue is that ski towns have built it, and the people are not coming. Like the American housing issue in general, there is way too much inventory, and in the case of ski resorts, way too much competition. This was clearly illustrated on the walk back to the car after the meeting, as the entire Canyons village was beyond dead, like, not a single person, vacant parking lots, dark hotel windows, empty restaurants and closed, or deserted retail shops.

In a tradition ski town, this would be bad news, but at least the pain would be spread out over individual shops, hotels, bars and the ski resort. In the new era of company ski towns (Vail, Whistler, Canyons, etc.) where a single company owns everything, this has got to be crushing. Ticket sales are a distant subset of the "filled beds" equation, which includes everything from ice cream, dinner, bar tabs, pay per view tv, hot stone massages, boot fitting, tips, gifts and mini bars.

The Canyons has the worst snow and skiing of the seven major Utah resorts, and a surplus of beds. The tram is an attempt to get people to stay in the Canyons, yet still have access to the vastly superior skiing in LCC and BCC. In that regard, their transportation study is more like a wishful fantasty - they would love it if 200 people a day stayed at the Canyons and then drove around to ski in the Cottonwood Canyons, carbon emissions be damned. Instead, people stay in SLC or Park City, try the skiing at the Canyons once and never come back.

It's hard not to see this as yet another attempt at a government bailout for bad real estate and investment decisions. Talisker is overbuilt and now they want the government and the people of the US to give them public land so they can dig themselves out of their hole.

The TramScam proponents have set up a Facebook page called "Ski Our Canyons Responsibly" which has all of their meeting info and more propaganda than you can shake a ski pole at. If you are interested in attending one of their future monthly meetings, this is where they are announced.

Seems like that sums it up quite well. I now have a headache from my persistent hypertension related to this matter.

Originally Posted by Trackhead

I now have a headache from my persistent hypertension related to this matter.

well a day on the river willl fix that
well if there is enough left to float anywho

Originally Posted by StraightChuter

I'll send it to you in a personal message Carmen. Do what you want with it.

Ah, just to note, SFB is not Carmen, which is OK since it really clearly demonstrates what an utter douche you are.

damn you're mean I was gonna go with slightly self centered, super busy blogger bro and spancered brand ambassador and way to busy saving the terrain he discovered to realize what Utah resorts were actually open or my blogless ski bum name
last skinner we shared if my braincells remember right
never checked did I make the blog that day???
I thought the original 3 you support and one against was great and that's why i posted mine
damn 13 years of animal assisted therapy better get me in that rainbow bridge club for a visit is all i gots to say

Sorry, did I dis the disguise?

Shindlers been pretty quiet on the skilink discussion front
but he no longer resides slopeside
{movin on up Jeffersons song inserted here}

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Details from a local who is reading every line and paying attention to details.

Good catch!

I read that entire report based on this post, and the bullshit continues below the section your friend quoted. On pages 4-5, RCLCO attempts to justify using the numbers given by Canyons. They basically say that it's very hard to predict future skier visits, so they didn't attempt to model it themselves. But then they try to give the numbers the veneer of legitimacy by gauging the "reasonableness" of Canyons projections. They then go on to talk about US population growth and the share of national skier visits Utah attracts. Eventually they come to the conclusion that with US population going up and assuming Utah skier visits as a percentage of national skier visits remains constant at mid 2000 levels, surprise, there will be more skier visits!

Um, yeah. What this report is supposed to be showing is the economic impact of the skilink project. The assumptions used to supposedly check the reasonableness of this estimate (growing US population and a constant share of skier visits by Utah) have NOTHING to do with skilink. They basically just had a fancy way of saying, "US population is growing, therefore Canyons will get more skier visits." It definitely does NOT address the reasonableness of Canyons estimates for additional skier visits ATTRIBUTABLE to skilink. Nor does it support their conclusion that "This projection, then, appears to be within reason, and potentially conservative."

I'd like to see a truly independent economic analysis of this project....

If I wanted drama I would call my parents....

Don't do it!