Thread: the Wasatch's new worst enemy=TALISKER

I don't find the Utah liquor laws all that restrictive anymore. Used to be a PIA with private club memberships etc. Since they lifted the most stringent rules two years ago they are shall I say manageable. I think people lose sight that many states have restrictions. Can't buy full strength beer in Minnesota conveinent stores only liquor stores. Many states restrict liquor sales on Sunday, hell there are still plenty of dry counties in this country. State stores may not have every micro beer but they have more than I will ever need. BTW state stores have a great wine selection and the prices are pretty good considering they have a monopoly.

Regarding liquor laws here, the only part that really pisses me off is that I can't get anything strong here on draft. No pitchers of Sierra Nevada, Sunshine Wheat, Kokanee, the awesome local microbrews that are higher octane (Epic especially) etc. The lack of new licenses has killed some potential restaurant and hotel development, which affects me at work somewhat. But whatever, isn't the end of the world.

But fuck this fucking gondola right in the ass. Lame.

Originally Posted by JoshP

Regarding liquor laws here, the only part that really pisses me off is that I can't get anything strong here on draft. No pitchers of Sierra Nevada, Sunshine Wheat, Kokanee, the awesome local microbrews that are higher octane (Epic especially) etc. The lack of new licenses has killed some potential restaurant and hotel development, which affects me at work somewhat. But whatever, isn't the end of the world.

But fuck this fucking gondola right in the ass. Lame.

agreed on all fronts man. having to pay $5+ for a bottle of decent stuff at a bar sucks, being able to have some stronger stuff on tap would be absolutely key.

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

The alps interconnect is epic because it takes an insurmountable (in the sense you can't easily travel over the whole range without lifts) mnt range and makes it easily navigable in a short amount of time. The wasatch is so fucking small and short that it is already easily navigable with the current lift setup, a tiny bit of touring and OB skiing. Making the wasatch interconnected with magic carpets and shitty blue groomers doesnt make it like the alps, it would make it watered down crap.
.

You have traversed the Wasatch From Nebo up to Logan? Really? I'd like to see that TR. Although the Wasatch is smaller than the Alps, it is much larger geographically than most people perceive. Even if the resorts were interconnected as has been proposed, there would still be huge majority swaths of the range that are backcountry that never get skied. And thats not even including other nearby mountain ranges such as the Uintas, Oquirs, Stansburys, Tushars etc.

I'm pointing this out because so many people have such a limited view of what the wasatch and the surrounding area is, and are too lazy to venture out to see what is really there.

The backwards thinking in this state is not limited to liquor laws it appears. Interconnect would be awesome for skiing in the Wasatch, both inbounds and backcountry.

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

You have traversed the Wasatch From Nebo up to Logan? Really? I'd like to see that TR. Although the Wasatch is smaller than the Alps, it is much larger geographically than most people perceive. Even if the resorts were interconnected as has been proposed, there would still be huge majority swaths of the range that are backcountry that never get skied. And thats not even including other nearby mountain ranges such as the Uintas, Oquirs, Stansburys etc.

I'm pointing this out because so many people have such a limited view of what the wasatch and the surrounding area is, and are too lazy to venture out to see what is really there.

well right now you can skin 45 minutes up flagstaff, pole line pass, etc and be lapping days fork every 30 minutes OR you could head to timp, hike for 5 hours and get one run......... i'll take 6 laps in days over one lap on timp most days. the central wasatch has the best access!!! that's why its worth fighting for, especially considering the ski resorts stances on uphill travel.

americans are fat! less chairlifts, make the fatties hike for it, it's the best thing for our nation!!! chairlifts are for commies!

Also, EPIC is not good beer. Fancy malt liquor yes. Good beer no.

Originally Posted by BRUTAH

well right now you can skin 45 minutes up flagstaff, pole line pass, etc and be lapping days fork every 30 minutes OR you could head to timp, hike for 5 hours and get one run......... i'll take 6 laps in days over one lap on timp most days. the central wasatch has the best access!!! that's why its worth fighting for, especially considering the ski resorts stances on uphill travel.

americans are fat! less chairlifts, make the fatties hike for it, it's the best thing for our nation!!! chairlifts are for commies!

Ummm... hiking up flagstaff to Days is NOT traversing the Wasatch. Sorry.

Even so, that has absolutely nothing to do with the expansion of the Canyons.

And, Why not make the hike to Timp? Are you some 'fat lazy American' you can't deal with the hike? Start making sense.

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

Also, EPIC is not good beer. Fancy malt liquor yes. Good beer no.

Then I want my fancy malt liquor on tap when I order the big ass nachos at the Porcupine .

Even more completely off topic, Uinta's Crooked Imperial Pumpkin Ale is awesome.

The Interconnect already exists - I've done it multiple times, as have thousands of other people. It is actually not all that bitchin' which is why it is often referred to as the "Disconnect."

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

Ummm... hiking up flagstaff to Days is NOT traversing the Wasatch. Sorry.

Even so, that has absolutely nothing to do with the expansion of the Canyons.

And, Why not make the hike to Timp? Are you some 'fat lazy American' you can't deal with the hike? Start making sense.

I know that's not traversing the wasatch, dude.
i was making an example of what's a stake to lose with an interconnected wasatch, and that is easy access to backcountry skiing.
and i hike timp, i love that mountain, but i don't always have 4-6 hours to spend skiing during the day, sometimes i got to hit the quick hits because of time constraints. and while days fork isn't under attack necessarily, it will be once the interconnect begins (think of alta's flagstaff lift)..... and mill d north fork (another area of quick hits) is certainly under attack with the can can tram proposal.

and i agree..... epic beer, not so great. uintas crooked line, even worse, most of the crooked beers actually have that 'colt 45" malt liquor aftertaste. more alcohol in beer does NOT make it better, but that's totally off subject

Originally Posted by BRUTAH

s OR you could head to timp, hike for 5 hours and get one run......... i'll take 6 laps in days over one lap on timp most days.

Not me. I've skied Daze Phork enough times, but I'm glad you enjoy it

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

You have traversed the Wasatch From Nebo up to Logan? Really? I'd like to see that TR. Although the Wasatch is smaller than the Alps, it is much larger geographically than most people perceive. Even if the resorts were interconnected as has been proposed, there would still be huge majority swaths of the range that are backcountry that never get skied. And thats not even including other nearby mountain ranges such as the Uintas, Oquirs, Stansburys, Tushars etc.

I'm pointing this out because so many people have such a limited view of what the wasatch and the surrounding area is, and are too lazy to venture out to see what is really there.

The backwards thinking in this state is not limited to liquor laws it appears. Interconnect would be awesome for skiing in the Wasatch, both inbounds and backcountry.

Most of the backcountry skiers in the wasatch have jobs, families, etc. The ability to get to the trailhead quickly makes all the difference for most of us regarding whether we get to ski that day. It's why Denver is no comparison to SLC for backcountry skiers.

Those other ranges, and the outer portions of the wasatch, have very limited access points, most of which require bushwacking through scrubbrush hell to get there. If backcountry skiing in the central wasatch were eliminated, I'd backcountry ski probably 75% less than I do now.

There are already probably 80 lifts covering 15,000 acres in the central wasatch (very rough estimate on my part). Why the fuck do we need lifts covering all of the easily accessed terrain in the central wasatch? Or, how many lifts are enough?

Also, you forget that skiing is not the only thing to do up there. There are lots of nice hikes, mountain bike rides, hunting, etc. Look at the picture of the canyons from McLean's website. When you put in a lift, the real eyesore is not the lift, but all the roads and other areas that are disturbed to put the lift in.

Some areas that are easily accessed need to be left for backcountry-style travel, and need to be left in as natural a condition as possible. The quick access from city to near wilderness is the best thing about SLC. It's why I live here. I know tons of other people who live here for the same reason.

As you note, there are plenty of other ranges around. If they are so awesome for skiing, go build some lifts there.

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Not me. I've skied Daze Phork enough times, but I'm glad you enjoy it

just proving my point..... that outing you show a picture of took ya'll 10-12 hours, correct??? ok, i shouldn't have said i prefer days to timp, i was just trying to make a point that you can get 10 laps in days, OR you could get one lap on timp/nebo/BF twins/lone peak, etc
again, i don't always have full days to go skiing and while i masturbate to trip reports of skiing the east face off the north summit of timp, i don't always have the time or the balls for such outings......

but its not really about losing backcountry skiing, this is about

Originally Posted by sicktird

The Utah story has more to do with the use of PUBLIC LAND for private enterprise and the current law that bans uphill traffic inside resort boundaries.

Then there is the issue of water quality: Big Cottonwood Canyon is a watershed.

Those are the issues, this is not a "I got mine, FUCK YOU! Fuck Expansion!" attitude.

Help me out here, is the proposed lift only on FS land? I have to think the ewnviromental permitting would be extensive. This is not like Snowbird expanding on property they already own or an additional trail being cut on adjacent FS land next to an existing ski area. Even Alta going up Flagstaff for "control work" is going to be a fight and that is contiguous with land they own. I would also assume this is NOT a part of the master plan that Canyons has on file with the FS so it would require a significant change.

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

You have traversed the Wasatch From Nebo up to Logan? Really? I'd like to see that TR. Although the Wasatch is smaller than the Alps, it is much larger geographically than most people perceive. Even if the resorts were interconnected as has been proposed, there would still be huge majority swaths of the range that are backcountry that never get skied. And thats not even including other nearby mountain ranges such as the Uintas, Oquirs, Stansburys, Tushars etc.

I'm pointing this out because so many people have such a limited view of what the wasatch and the surrounding area is, and are too lazy to venture out to see what is really there.

The backwards thinking in this state is not limited to liquor laws it appears. Interconnect would be awesome for skiing in the Wasatch, both inbounds and backcountry.

have you traversed that?
I'd love to see your tr or sumthin aside from your expert opinoins
think it will snow in Oct?
think it will be a season long instability last your awesome expert avvy guru call last season?
you got anything aside from bullshit messages you spew?
dog stoke perhaps?

Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

You are dreaming. People who go to FL. in the winter would rather go to Barbados, or even Aspen, than Utah. Also, I hate to say it, but so long as the LDS church is running the wasatch and liquor sales in these parts, UT will never attract the crowds that justifies the current land rape fest.
While we are on the subject of Talisker, the Canyons will never make the money (real estate sales included) that justifies what they are doing to the land there. Golf, fish, mountain bike, chocolate shops, restaurants, concerts...no matter. UT just does not bring in the crowds (Thank God and the LDS church). Someone (or entity) is going to lose a lot of money, sell for $.20 on the dollar, and someone (entity) is going to buy the Canyons in 5 years in a fire sale.

You do realize that LCC is about 10X more crowded than Aspen ever is right? (excepting x games week). There are different bussiness models. Aspen;s customers throw money around like its nothing and support an awesome town and ski areas with very few skier visits. Altabirds customers get cheap flights into town and do budget vacations. There is no shortage of skiers at altabird, there is instead an math problem of how to make a profit of them because they are mostly cheap. (NTTAWWT, I myself am pretty cheap). Just saying, drawing more crowds isnt the answer.

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

You have traversed the Wasatch From Nebo up to Logan? Really? I'd like to see that TR. Although the Wasatch is smaller than the Alps, it is much larger geographically than most people perceive. Even if the resorts were interconnected as has been proposed, there would still be huge majority swaths of the range that are backcountry that never get skied. And thats not even including other nearby mountain ranges such as the Uintas, Oquirs, Stansburys, Tushars etc.

I'm pointing this out because so many people have such a limited view of what the wasatch and the surrounding area is, and are too lazy to venture out to see what is really there.

The backwards thinking in this state is not limited to liquor laws it appears. Interconnect would be awesome for skiing in the Wasatch, both inbounds and backcountry.

No I havent skied every single corner of the wasatch, but your point is irrelevant, this interconnect wouldnt open up any hard to access areas, all it would do is make easy to access areas lift served.

The wasatch is a tiny ass range. Some small corners remain harder to access because of local geographical features, like lone peak, its just not shaped in a way that allows easy access. That doesnt change the fact that the wasatch is a tiny little range.

Go wander around colorado and then compare. Even the hardest to access places in the wasatch are basically all within sight of a ski area or major city. There are some cool peaks and lines in the wasatch for sure, but its best feature is the snow it gets.

The stansburies dont get skied cus they are fucking lame. Sure you can have fun there, and yes I've never skied them, but from all the pics I've seen they are what are called foothills in MT Co or the Canadian Rockies.

The only people that think the wasatch is really that badass of a range (snowfall not considered) are transplanted ice coasters that don't know any better cus its all they've seen of the rockies.

Like Skiski said, the fact that there is that much easily accessible BC in the wasatch that is 'pretty good' terrain with great snow is what makes it awesome. Build lifts all over all the easily accessible stuff and its suddenly very mediocre in bounds terrain.

I'm all for the tram to the top of lone peak.



Regardless, I think the bigger point is that while an interconnect could be really cool THIS plan for an interconnect looks retarded.

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Not me. I've skied Daze Phork enough times, but I'm glad you enjoy it

U got avvy gear??


BWWAAAHHHH
BRO

Couple of things from an outsiders perspective:

Made my first visit to Utah this April, and basically fell in love with the convenience of the place. Hell, my plane landed @ 10:30 and I was skiing in Park City by noon. Yes, the Canyons sucks. Definitely some decent terrain, but the flat as hell runouts just suck. The skiing was much better on the SLC side, but there are basically no accomodations so you have to deal with the drama of getting thru the gates, etc. It sure would be nice to be able to stay in a decent hotel (not that all of the places on the other side are complete shitholes, there are just a very limited # of rooms available) yet still ski where I want to without driving for 45 minutes & sitting in a line of traffic waiting to get up LCC. Spending an hour traversing and riding lifts would be better than driving around, IMO.

Anyhow, from a booze perspective, I was prepared to be mighty disappointed. Shit, I brought a handle of JW with me because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get my swerve on. Not only did every place I went have booze for me (as well as being able to buy it at the state liquor store) I discovered an awesome high alcohol content beer (Squatters Hop Rising - love that stuff).

Anyhow, that's my $0.02.

Originally Posted by jgb@etree

Couple of things from an outsiders perspective:

Made my first visit to Utah this April, and basically fell in love with the convenience of the place. Hell, my plane landed @ 10:30 and I was skiing in Park City by noon. Yes, the Canyons sucks. Definitely some decent terrain, but the flat as hell runouts just suck. The skiing was much better on the SLC side, but there are basically no accomodations so you have to deal with the drama of getting thru the gates, etc. It sure would be nice to be able to stay in a decent hotel (not that all of the places on the other side are complete shitholes, there are just a very limited # of rooms available) yet still ski where I want to without driving for 45 minutes & sitting in a line of traffic waiting to get up LCC. Spending an hour traversing and riding lifts would be better than driving around, IMO.

Anyhow, from a booze perspective, I was prepared to be mighty disappointed. Shit, I brought a handle of JW with me because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get my swerve on. Not only did every place I went have booze for me (as well as being able to buy it at the state liquor store) I discovered an awesome high alcohol content beer (Squatters Hop Rising - love that stuff).

Anyhow, that's my $0.02.

That actually highlights another problem with the interconnect- alta and the bird would probably be twice as crowded as they are now. Think it's hard to get freshies at alta now? Wait until the park city skiers descend on it.
As things are, if you want to ski inbounds and avoid crowds, you can go to solitude. THat will no longer be an option. I guess that, if you want fresh inbounds skiing after the interconnect you can go slay the scrubbrush at the canyons.


Also, I'll add that it's funny to me that you were that concerned about getting a drink in Utah. Admittedly, we have some crappy liquor laws. But they are more along the lines of inconvenience than outright restriction. THe only one that really bothers me is the lack of licenses for new restaurants and bars that is hurting our economy when times are already tough. And, I would have been pissed if they'd closed my neighborhood liquor store with the cuts proposed this summer. The thought of having to risk muggings to get booze at the liqour store on west temple is enough to make someone give it up altogether.

Originally Posted by BRUTAH

just proving my point..... that outing you show a picture of took ya'll 10-12 hours, correct???

Five hours up, but it's the longest approach there is on Timp. Most are 4 hours or less. Took a little over an hour to get back to the car. So about a six to seven hour tour. Not bad for route finding, down climbing, and taking our time.

Originally Posted by BRUTAH

i don't always have full days to go skiing and while i masturbate to trip reports of skiing the east face off the north summit of timp, i don't always have the time or the balls for such outings......

Well, now that I have a four month old in my house, Daze Phorque seems a lot more my style with time commitments, etc. I was just messin' with ya.

^^^ barts still around aint he?
5 hours for ubernuts who eat and drink and boil water on the go without loosing skin stride.
you one ski skiin timp first snowfall again?
good season warm up

Originally Posted by skifishbum

^^^ barts still around aint he?
5 hours for ubernuts who eat and drink and boil water on the go without loosing skin stride.
you one ski skiin timp first snowfall again?
good season warm up

Yeah, Bart is still around. He's the neighborhood walk dog, not a ski dawg with his tripod issue.

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Well, now that I have a four month old in my house, Daze Phorque seems a lot more my style with time commitments, etc. I was just messin' with ya.

You have no idea how happy you will be getting one run into days fork and back over to alta with kids in your life.

th could do 4 and still be home time for mini diaper change