Thread: the Wasatch's new worst enemy=TALISKER

Originally Posted by skiski

It's one of the things about him that his most laughable - his blind faith in Talisker.

I doubt he has much trust in whoever might run the show there in five or ten years, he's just got a boner for the prospect of slackcountry lapping BCC terrain out his door with his beacon and Canyons pass. That'll be forever.

Originally Posted by itsnowjoke

Well, we were obviously typing at the same time, and you said exactly what you'd thought I'd say. And I said it. No roads. Period, end of story. Well, not quite, because you don't believe it. Let me just say that there are many, many examples of lifts with no roads, and if the shit ever hits the fan, the technology exists to deal with it without accessing every tower, cabin, (whether it be a tram or gondola) etc., utilizing a snowcat, snowmobile, or something else. European lift technology is just plain amazing, and when you experience the stuff Garaventa and Dopplemayer have over there, you will be a believer.

A few extreme examples:The Klien Matterhorn Tram passes over a thousand feet over the heavily crevassed Theodul Glacier. The Auguille Du Midi Tram hangs 5000 feet above the nearest terrain, and moving on over to Italy, the gondola hanging 1000 feet above the crevassed Mer du Glace provides problematic access as well. A skilink evac would be child's play compared to those lifts, and dozens more. Routine maintenance is performed by simply riding the maintenance car between towers, getting out, lubing the wheels, etc. Roads, cat tracks, etc., are simply not necessary. We can talk about the worst case scenario of a cable derailment, but at that's such a remote possibility that it simply doesn't bear discussion. Closer to home, the 20+ year old Granite Chief chair at Squaw Valley was built entirely without roads, and the whole lift will be replaced this summer or next in the same fashion. New footings, towers, etc. I'm sure that there are other examples, but you get the point. It's entirely possible.

And trusting Talisker and Solitude? They have given me no reason to doubt them. Again, I will state that I think they are excellent neighbors who turned the seedy, crappy Canyons into a world-class resort in three years. They won a prestigious US EPA award. Some of my buds were concerned that replacing the slow, rickety Golden Eagle lift with the Orange Bubble would result in tracked-out conditions in Silverado bowl almost immediately. Now that the Bubble has existed for two years, we all agree that freshies can still be found from to to bottom even days after the storm. This real-life experience is what forms my opinion that the coveted BCC backcountry will remain relatively untouched. The gapers simply can't hang. And who, after spending around a buck twenty on a lift ticket is going to want to hike much, deal with the flatness of lower Willows or Beartrap, hitchhike back to Soli, ride Skilink back over, ride multiple lifts, repeat? Who would want to pull laps like that, anyway? Not me! I'm either hiking the bowls, or just taking Skilink to and fro.

Lastly, you are contending that Skilink will ruin you BC experience due to the fact that if it exists at all, it will be intrusive, etc. The ridge is miles long. We all have plenty of room. I can stand 100 feet from a lift and not even know it's there, as was my experience in hiking the Armstrong Trail the other evening, and not even being able to see the Silver Star lift. I think there is room to share.

Cheers With Beers

First, Your lack of knowledge in how lifts actually operate is staggering...Many here have come up with cogent, thoughtful arguments in rebuttle to your uniformed bullshit.

I'm just here to tell you to STFU.

Also if as you've stated, "all your friend and neighbors think the skilink is a great Idea", and I live next door to you and we ski the same resort, why are less than 10% of my friends for it? where have they been hiding with their opinions in this discussion?

ps. I'm drunk, but still..fuck me. It's a TGR tradition.

I havent read the majority of this thread, but just based on what I have, I wouldnt be THAT surprised if itsnowjoke was on taliskers payroll, in a marketing position.

First, Your lack of knowledge in how lifts actually operate is staggering...Many here have come up with cogent, thoughtful arguments in rebuttle to your uniformed bullshit.

Perfect! I'm here to learn! Why don't you tell me how the Auguille du Midi, Klien Matterhorn, and Peak 2 Peak at Whistler, which hovers 1400 feet above the ground - are evacuated at 3:30 during a blizzard with a maintenance mishap. No roads on the first two, not so sure about the third. But I'll give you a road 1400 feet below, just so you can tell me how it will help. I know the answer. Why don't you tell me, you smart fuck? Skilink will have 40 foot towers. Road? Shit, they'd better build a freeway.

I'm just here to tell you to STFU.

I'd tell you to STFU also, but since you've got something long and hard in you mouth already, it isn't necessary! Dick!

Also if as you've stated, "all your friend and neighbors think the skilink is a great Idea", and I live next door to you and we ski the same resort, why are less than 10% of my friends for it? where have they been hiding with their opinions in this discussion?

I clearly stated that a majority that I talk to agree. I also stated that I have buds who disagree, and that's OK. Obviously, I have neighbors who disagree as well, as Canada1 appears to be a neighbor.

ps. I'm drunk, but still..fuck me. It's a TGR tradition.

Me too! It's been nice chatting with you!

Originally Posted by wra

The original aerial eyesore proposal map had a groomer running from the shoulder of West Monitor bowl down to Solitude. Ted(I used to be a greenie) Wilson claimed to have shot that idea down at the eyesore intro meeting.
He also made a fool of himself with a long winded "it's all about transportation" excuse, whining about he and the wife couldn't get up LCC on presidents day because of the traffic, when the fact was, canyon closed for avalanche control after a storm.
The no significant impact argument usually means significant impact and I'd expect that to be the case with the eyesore.
As an obsessive compulsive ski tourer for the last 35 years or so, I have done way more than my share of sharing so...thanks but, no thanks. Not interested in more lifts for interconnect. It's easy to get from one ski area to another right fucking now.
Rope lines for boundaries, real and imagined, can be problematic, especially on the pc side but, who wants to ski there anyhow?

Not that you give a rat's ass, but I appreciate your candor. You stated exactly how you feel without making shit up, and I respect your honesty.

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

I havent read the majority of this thread, but just based on what I have, I wouldnt be THAT surprised if itsnowjoke was on taliskers payroll, in a marketing position.

Yes. You are right. That would explain everything, wouldn't it? Read my response, two posts above. Straight out of the marketing department at Talisker. We're only allowed to use the word "Dick" once per month, however, and implications of oral sex are allowed only every other month. Damn! I have to wait, again!

Originally Posted by itsnowjoke

Perfect! I'm here to learn! Why don't you tell me how the Auguille du Midi, Klien Matterhorn, and Peak 2 Peak at Whistler, which hovers 1400 feet above the ground - are evacuated at 3:30 during a blizzard with a maintenance mishap.

first, those are fucking trams, you only have to unload people from one place, we are talking about a gondola here. I have done and practiced many evacs, including on gondolas, and they are not the same. Stop acting like they are.
Do you know how long it took for them to evac the Redpine gondola the last time it went down???

second, you can't just "run Lift maintenance up the lift, and do maintenance when shit breaks". there are many different electrical "kill switches" and issues that arise that require inspection and maintenance before the lifts are operable again.

Like leroy stated; what is your motive?
I have more to gain from the skilink then anyone here, I arguably spend more time out there than just about anyone (Haney is untouchable, god bless him) I have spent the last 12 years and done more than 3,800 laps (ya, I did the math) and would be more than happy to utilize the skilink for pow turns down to soliturd, but it doesn't change the fact it's a stupid idea. You will be able to see that gondola 5miles in either direction; that is a true eyesore.

PS. I was just joking about the "stfu" thing... by all means keep posting so all us "eco-nazis" can keep sharpening our teeth on your weak-ass argument

Originally Posted by stevesliva

I doubt he has much trust in whoever might run the show there in five or ten years, he's just got a boner for the prospect of slackcountry lapping BCC terrain out his door with his beacon and Canyons pass. That'll be forever.

Yeah, whatever. I do that already. The reason that I have the opinions that I do is that Skilink is too problematic to make BC laps. Seriously.

Let's see: Cabriolet to gondola to Tombstone to 9990. Hike. Ski right off of the backside, endure a flat / uphill runout, hitchhike to Solitude. Take Skilink. Ski the flats for miles to Timberline Lift to Tombstone to 9900. Hike. Yes! Sounds like fun. Everyone will do it. No thanks. I'll continue to hike.

If you work out the logistics in your head, you will come to the conclusion that Skilink laps are simply not worth the effort.

Originally Posted by itsnowjoke

If you work out the logistics in your head, you will come to the conclusion that Skilink laps are simply not worth the effort.

which begs the obvious fucking question WHY BUILD THE FUCKING THING?! that's where the whole goddamn argument stems from and you just conceded that point.

Originally Posted by bestskieratsnowbird

which begs the obvious fucking question WHY BUILD THE FUCKING THING?! that's where the whole goddamn argument stems from and you just conceded that point.

^^^^
that abomination is going to be an under-utilized waste of space.

Mark. My. Word.

Who the fuck is going to use it? it takes an hour to get there and that's when there are no delays. wtf is the point? it's all for the colony, and always has been.

Originally Posted by itsnowjoke

Cabriolet to gondola to Tombstone to 9990. Hike. Ski right off of the backside, endure a flat / uphill runout, hitchhike to Solitude.

It's not too flat or runout getting from that ridge to Solitude... you and everyone else will figure that out.

Originally Posted by My Pet Powder Goat

first, those are fucking trams, you only have to unload people from one place, we are talking about a gondola here. I have done and practiced many evacs, including on gondolas, and they are not the same. Stop acting like they are.
Do you know how long it took for them to evac the Redpine gondola the last time it went down???

second, you can't just "run Lift maintenance up the lift, and do maintenance when shit breaks". there are many different electrical "kill switches" and issues that arise that require inspection and maintenance before the lifts are operable again.

Like leroy stated; what is your motive?
I have more to gain from the skilink then anyone here, I arguably spend more time out there than just about anyone (Haney is untouchable, god bless him) I have spent the last 12 years and done more than 3,800 laps (ya, I did the math) and would be more than happy to utilize the skilink for pow turns down to soliturd, but it doesn't change the fact it's a stupid idea. You will be able to see that gondola 5miles in either direction; that is a true eyesore.

PS. I was just joking about the "stfu" thing... by all means keep posting so all us "eco-nazis" can keep sharpening our teeth on your weak-ass argument

Whistler's Peak to Peak isn't a tram, its a gondola. And yeah, sometimes gondolas can take a long time to evac. So what?

I'm against this skilink, but it's the selfish, belligerent stance you and a few others take that is probably going to end up being the catalyst to it's approval.

You speak with such authority on all matters of skiing in the Wasatch that I'm actually a little embarrassed for you. Big deal, you live in Vermont and have been coming out to ski Park City for the last 12 years. Oh man, you're SO old school!

Originally Posted by itsnowjoke

Yeah, whatever. I do that already. The reason that I have the opinions that I do is that Skilink is too problematic to make BC laps. Seriously.

yet you stated earlier you're looking forward to skiing from the canyons to snowbird?

hopefully it snows this season and you all
STFU and SKI our canyons
and bring 25 pages worth of stoke

Originally Posted by bestskieratsnowbird

which begs the obvious fucking question WHY BUILD THE FUCKING THING?! that's where the whole goddamn argument stems from and you just conceded that point.

I conceded nothing. I've conceded stuff before, so I'm not above it. But what exactly did I concede?

If you buy a lift ticket at Canyons or Solitude and utilize Skilink to get from one to the other, it is impossible to make laps on the thing. If you don't understand the concept, www.skilink.com.

The backcountry ski crowd contends that folks will hike to the top of the ridge of Canyons, ski down to Solitude, and take Skilink back up and over rather than stopping, putting on the skins and hiking back up. Pet Powder Goat says he's rather take Skilink back up. In order to do this he will endure flats, uphills, hitchhiking, and several lifts again in order to get to a position where he can make another lap. I'd rather just do the hike. I'll beat him back to the top every time. I've been hiking for years, I'll continue hiking. The area will remain a backcountry area.

Why build the thing? Because if you are living or staying on the Park City side, the mechanical monstrosity -once on it- will deliver you to high Wasatch skiing in 11 minutes, and ultimately link all of the Wasatch resorts.

Originally Posted by Finstah

Whistler's Peak to Peak isn't a tram, its a gondola. And yeah, sometimes gondolas can take a long time to evac. So what?

I'm against this skilink, but it's the selfish, belligerent stance you and a few others take that is probably going to end up being the catalyst to it's approval.

You speak with such authority on all matters of skiing in the Wasatch that I'm actually a little embarrassed for you. Big deal, you live in Vermont and have been coming out to ski Park City for the last 12 years. Oh man, you're SO old school!

Relax, My trolling point, in a drunk haze, was that gondolas are going to require more infrastructure and a service road despite what Talisker says. Sorry if my post comes off dickish, just trying to prove that I have some knowledge of that area and situation. I'll always admit I don't know that much about the rest of the Wasnatch outside my little meadow skipping slice of heaven. ..the one they want to put a gondola through.

Originally Posted by criscam

yet you stated earlier you're looking forward to skiing from the canyons to snowbird?

If Bird bound from Canyons, the most efficient way for the typical, average joe would be to take Skilink to BCC, then whatever other Soli / Bright lifts to Alta and Bird.

If I choose to go through the backcountry gate at the top off 9990 and ski down to the BCC road, hitch to Soli, and continue my journey to the Bird, I could do that as well. It will take more time though, and your average skilink user will not have this figured out, nor will he be able to implement.

My trolling point, in a drunk haze, was that gondolas are going to require more infrastructure and a service road despite what Talisker says.

Maybe we can have the engineering discussion on a new thread. We can learn the difference between trams and gondola's, and discuss modern tramway systems which incorporate redundancy, triple monitoring, bypass, and swap-out capabilities. No Riblet or Yan comments, please.

I jest!

Originally Posted by itsnowjoke

Not that you give a rat's ass, but I appreciate your candor. You stated exactly how you feel without making shit up, and I respect your honesty.

Now if you could just stick to how you feel about instead of making shit up, or worse, parrotting others made up shit, we'd stop calling you out.

Another TGR tradition.

This thread is funny. Everyone is arguing with a single person who is so impassioned in his belief that skilink is great he will never change his mind no matter what argument you put in front of him.


What needs to happen is the development of a clear, concise, wasatch development plan spanning LCC-BCC-PC. Accept that the resorts are going to be linked, there will be additional development beyond just lifts/trams, and additional pressure/outright loss of some existing BC ski areas. Figure out a way to do it as efficiently as possible with the least amount of damage to the environment, ensure easements for skier/biker/hiker traffic, and make it impossible for further private development to take place outside of what is agreed on. The ski industry would be able to create a long term development plan knowing that environmental/special interest groups arent going to try to block them every step of the way. The environmental/special interest groups and everyone else can rest easy with the knowledge that the rest of the wasatch will remain undeveloped. But of course that's just a massive pipe dream that will never happen.

There is too much private land and too much money to believe that development/link isn't going to happen. If not skilink, then another lift somewhere else. Accept it, mitigate the damage, and move on.

Originally Posted by Finstah

Big deal, you live in Vermont and have been coming out to ski Park City for the last 12 years. Oh man, you're SO old school!

you obviously have never met MPPG and have never seen his mustache

Originally Posted by mc_roon

This thread is funny. Everyone is arguing with a single person who is so impassioned in his belief that skilink is great he will never change his mind no matter what argument you put in front of him.


What needs to happen is the development of a clear, concise, wasatch development plan spanning LCC-BCC-PC. Accept that the resorts are going to be linked, there will be additional development beyond just lifts/trams, and additional pressure/outright loss of some existing BC ski areas. Figure out a way to do it as efficiently as possible with the least amount of damage to the environment, ensure easements for skier/biker/hiker traffic, and make it impossible for further private development to take place outside of what is agreed on. The ski industry would be able to create a long term development plan knowing that environmental/special interest groups arent going to try to block them every step of the way. The environmental/special interest groups and everyone else can rest easy with the knowledge that the rest of the wasatch will remain undeveloped. But of course that's just a massive pipe dream that will never happen.

There is too much private land and too much money to believe that development/link isn't going to happen. If not skilink, then another lift somewhere else. Accept it, mitigate the damage, and move on.

Great post. I'd like to add that I've fully agreed that there are probably better locations for the link. Also, I'm not so passionate about it that I think it must go in at any cost. You bring up some excellent points.

Originally Posted by itsnowjoke

Great post. I'd like to add that I've fully agreed that there are probably better locations for the link. Also, I'm not so passionate about it that I think it must go in at any cost. You bring up some excellent points.

But you think an end run through an act of Congress around every other interest group except yours is a just fine.

Originally Posted by bestskieratsnowbird

which begs the obvious fucking question WHY BUILD THE FUCKING THING?! that's where the whole goddamn argument stems from and you just conceded that point.

To save the environment, and improve traffic flow in Parley's. Didn't you read the proposal? This is some altruistic shit they are proposing!

Originally Posted by mc_roon

Accept it, mitigate the damage, and move on.

In a hypothetical scenario, if you were in a state prison, would you mutter those words as Bubba lumbered over to you while in the shower?

Accept Bubba's inevitable sodomy, mitigate the damage, and move on? If you do that, your ass is officially now open to all who want a piece. Enjoy the perpetual ass fucking.

Maybe somebody should ask taliskier if we can build a lift in his backyard to link the backyard with the front l