Thread: Green Mountain Freeride AT Binding

Originally Posted by ectreeskier11

i wasn't commenting on the touring function, that's a cool mod, but skiing on those... yikes. i know i wouldn't try it.

I second that. I would not trust the interface of a tapered Dynafit toe pincher in a parallel sided hexagonal hole. I might do the mod to a worn sole pair of Dobermans I have though. Touring only.

Yeah i know. I'm not sure if I would or not. Have to see when I hold them and install them. To me it still seems way burlier than any part of the tech binding or standard tech toe fitting plate. Of course I'm not known for being a fan of tech bindings...

They really aren't designed at all for skiing, just a temporary fix so you can skin with the GMF system. The true tech conversion will happen early next year.

I asked about the toe inserts a little bit ago and it sounds like there is a better modification in the near future that that should be more than strong enough. Another option would be to pick up a pair or technica or bd tech soles and do some grinding and bolting. I may do that just to have the rubber sole, but since I have some time before I decide I'm gonna wait and see what is available

A bump for this binding system... Anyone have experience on it this winter? Any idea if it will be available to the public at large for next season? Any word as to whether or not the final version will include a heel plate in addition to the toe plate?

Bump, I'm curious how these are going.

Originally Posted by Gone Skiing

The proto program is underway. If you haven't heard from Lars, I'm sorry to say that you'll have to wait until next season. There will be probably 30 pairs kicking around this season though, so keep your eyes open and if you see a pair, ask how they're working out.

Bump. So what was the verdict? Any updates to the design? What's the plan for next season?

Very curious as well to know the status on availability of these.

I was up camping/skiing on 4th of July, not happy with my crap TLT5s and Tech bindings, and thought I had a flash of genius when I came up with pretty much this same idea...only to find out I'm not nearly the first one to come up with this!

I got about 3 days on mine at the end of the season. Bomber, awesome design, no need to say anything else. They're still working on a few teaks, however, nothing compares to this setup that is on the market at the moment if you're looking for a kick ass alpine setup on the way down (and this is your number one priority). They definitely aren't for everyone, but they are perfect for the few that are looking for the alpine binding performance while touring.

As for availability, you'd have to ask Lars and the crew, but my gut feel is that they want more testing before they are going to run to production. I could be wrong on that though. Not sure how many folks will have them on the south end of things over the next few months.

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Bump. So what was the verdict? Any updates to the design? What's the plan for next season?

Can´t wait to get mine. Well, kinda have to, as snow is six months away, but this will be awesome (I´ve put myself on a preorder list of sorts).

Originally Posted by alTAos

They definitely aren't for everyone, but they are perfect for the few that are looking for the alpine binding performance while touring.

Isn't this the growing majority of people now buying AT gear? I'm pretty sure the folks at Marker, Backcountry.com and Salomon would agree.

I was lucky enough to fondle this binding system on Beartooth Pass this past Solstice and was very impressed with the design progression compared with our first glimpses. However, there is still not a perfect solution for the toe mods [yet]. This is definitely the hardest part to figure out. I wonder if Lars et al have attempted partnering with a boot company to tackle this issue most effectively?

They are working on designing a simpler toe interface that will still use the existing tech standard. This will hopefully keep the cost down and keep the plates accessible to the people who will want them.

Originally Posted by snomaster

Isn't this the growing majority of people now buying AT gear? I'm pretty sure the folks at Marker, Backcountry.com and Salomon would agree.

I'm not a market analyst, so i could be way off, but my gut feel is more people are interested in saving weight and ease of touring and use rather than the alpine part...i could be way off though. The great thing about these is that you are sacrificing very little on either end. But, a Dynafit system as a whole is obviously sweeter in terms of use for a lot of folk. I would also guess the new salomon/atomic would be more preferred due to ease of use for some. There obviously is nothing out there right now that is a system for everyone, and probably never will be. The use of "few" in the initial post is probably way off, you are correct...there is a large market, but i'm not sure it's bigger than the tech market, or the folks in between. Seems there are three different optoins: light tech, middle of the road ease of use for inbounds/bakccountry, and the GMF/MFD systems that try and make no compromises on the alpine end of things.

The toe mod on the boot is pretty sweet and simple in my mind. I would never ski on it (although i think you probably could with no issues), but there was never one time i didn't 100% trust it touring, sidehilling, etc. I think there would be some issues on solid DIN toe boots, but on my RS 130's, it couldn't have worked better.

alTAos - You mention it makes no compromises on the downhill side of things - to me, that is pretty obvious. Can you comment at all on the compromises you felt it made on the touring side?

For me, ease of use (or ease of transition) is not a factor, as long as it isn't frustrating (ices up easily, etc.).

I only have a few days on them, so take this with a grain of salt.

In terms of the touring, the only downside I saw was the fact you couldn't switch in and out of ski mode. But again, this is obvious, and if you're willing to accept that, it is no big deal. The switch over time was amazing, very smooth and quick. I did have a slight issue with my bottom plate screws into the inserts coming lose and the plates catching, but this was due to my lack of lock-tite use...user error. Icing is tough to tell, as it was spring, only a few days and just not enough factors involved to say they will or will not ice over time.

The only other issue i could see at this point is the climbing bail. This is a work in progress. The system i had worked great for a lange which had ridges where the bail hit. If the boot were to be smooth here, there could be some issues...but again, they are working on climbing aid end of things. I'm assuming the final product will have this nailed.

The icing and whether they produce slop over time will be the test for these i feel.

All in all, there is nothing else out there that compares to this setup at the moment if you're looking for alpine performance. I was on dukes for years, always hated them. Skied MFD's this year, liked them minus the weight, but these crush them all. And so simple.

Originally Posted by Lindahl

alTAos - You mention it makes no compromises on the downhill side of things - to me, that is pretty obvious. Can you comment at all on the compromises you felt it made on the touring side?

For me, ease of use (or ease of transition) is not a factor, as long as it isn't frustrating (ices up easily, etc.).

Originally Posted by Gone Skiing

Ski:


Walk:

HUH ?????

That's side-country shit for sure !!!

God knows my Scarpa Denali XTs aren't the most comfortable boots for the uphills...the damn things are STIFF and sometimes give amazing shin rub....but the plastic is still softer than alpine race boots and at least they have some decent Vibram soles for when you DO need to boot it in the rocks. Those Alpine boots have none of that.,

Now, with that said....I DO like the idea of trying something new. But having to switch out the toe-pieces after ascent is sort of a drag....especially if it's blowing and gnarly and your fingers are fudged up with 'the freeze'.

I wouldn't ever recommend standard alpine boots for AT....at least NOT when there are so many other choices of gear. And a fricking $795 anticipated price-point for those bindings???? No thanks.

For side-country work, though....where the emphasis is strictly on getting to good lines, and less emphasis on routing and long ascents....they might be a very good option for people.

I just wouldn't advertise them for serious AT useage where you'll be booting through rocks, using crampons where needed and other shit. But to each his own, I guess.

But....if you swap out those alpine racing boots with a pair of decent soft-plastic, vibram-soled AT-specific boots, the possibilities for this binding combo definitely grow larger !!

Question on the picture, though: I can't seem to derive the attachment of the toe-pieces on that plate...at least not with those photos.

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Wait, so you're saying I shouldn't use this for ski mountaineering?!?

Shit.

Now having time to go through more of this thread, I don't wanna sound like I was poking holes through an interesting idea with the above post. Just giving some observations.

Like others...I too would like a AT set-up that is high-performance on the descents. A problem I was always having with my Fritschi Freerides....and even more of a problem with Dynafit systems, of which I have borrowed from friends.

Before I bought my first AT gear....I'd spend literally 2/3 of a day booting up through deep snow and rocks and shit with my alpine boards on my back just to get some nice lines...and be tired as shit from it. But those performance alpine boots/bindings/skis sure made a huge difference on the way down. Then I started using a modified pair of Sherpa snowhoes who's bindings were very modified to fit my alpine DH boots. Better, but still tiring...and using DH boots for shoeing was a new form of torture and very hard on the sherpas as well. Then, when I went to boarding, I was STILL booting/shoeing up, as I was too cheap to invest in a splitboard!

My Scarpa Denalis/Fritschi Freerides to this day STILL don't give me the capability I had on descent with my alpine racing gear....it's just a compromise I was okay with.

Maybe with this new gear...like I said at least FOR SIDE-COUNTRY, there is no longer a need for compromise. Still wouldn't be too big on using alpine race boots for skinning, though....but I guess that right there is the compromise.

EDIT: Anybody know where to try these for demo-ing? Or have they gotten to that stage yet? Some ppl above are demo-ing them. I see.

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I actually find a stiff alpine boot fine for skiing, as long as you're going uphill. On flats they definitely work at the knees, but on a good pitch you don't really lean back into the spine much anyway (unless you're an animal, sprinting up 25º skintracks). They aren't awesome for walking in rocks, but the updated tech fitting Silas is using has a rubberized toe on the race boot, as well as a full skiable tech fitting toe and heel.

I will be using mine for long tours this winter. I will also ski them inbounds every day I'm at the hill. I will hopefully have lots of ammo for a full review by mid January.

Originally Posted by Gone Skiing

I actually find a stiff alpine boot fine for skiing, as long as you're going uphill.

I agree, my RS 130's, when fitted properly are fine for skinning. (Rocks? just makes the adrenaline rush a little better ) I'm not going 30-40 miles a day or anything, but I can do multiple laps of 1-3k vert with no issues at all.

It's definitely all a personal preference, if you don't want to make the sacrifice for alpine performance, this system is sick. If you are willing to make some sacrifices on the alpine performance in order to have a more comfortable tour, Dynafit is amazing.

Originally Posted by Gone Skiing

They aren't awesome for walking in rocks, but the updated tech fitting Silas is using has a rubberized toe on the race boot, as well as a full skiable tech fitting toe and heel.

Wait what? Are we talking the Technica, or another stiff racelike boot with skiable tech fitting option? Do tell. In the market for new boots this year...

Si is using the Head 130s pictures, but with a new tech fitting. They basically dremel out a bit of the toe and heel, screw in a true bar-style tech fitting (plenty burly for real), then screw what is basically a race riser plate below it. One iteration of that riser I saw had traction of some sort, and possible some rubberization, but i'm not 100% on that. Its sick though, fully skiable dynafit mod for your (insert race boot here).

http://skierboyz.blogspot.it/2011/11...nd-system.html

Just to be a tech nerd.

Been checking these at bindings out for a while and wonder how i can get a pair? Been on the web site and been researching a fair bit and feel its a killer idea would like to try a pair.

I searched and didn't see anything, so sorry if this has already been answered. What is the total extra stack height when your skiing on these?

I'm surprised there's not more discussion on this, I've seen a couple comments in other threads but that's it. The production version looks way more streamlined than the past prototypes:

http://casttouring.com/?page_id=28

http://www.wildsnow.com/9353/cast-ski-binding/



the only things I'm worried about are the plate producing slop after a lot of inbounds skiing, and those heel lifters getting pushed down and/or rattling around when you're skiing. also the rubber band for the brakes is a bit mickey mouse but I'm sure it works fine.

any word on when these will be available? their facebook page has a couple dates for kickstarter that never came to fruition.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Climber Joe

I searched and didn't see anything, so sorry if this has already been answered. What is the total extra stack height when your skiing on these?

stack height is 6.5mm and they weigh 275g per ski according to their site