Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 127
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,280
    Quote Originally Posted by JFE24 View Post
    Here you go. Pictures with just the velcro ski carry strap are cambered, pictures with the clamp, decambered.
    Well done, thanks man
    Do I detect a lot of anger flowing around this place? Kind of like a pubescent volatility, some angst, a lot of I'm-sixteen-and-angry-at-my-father syndrome?

    fuck that noise.

    gmen.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,280
    Quote Originally Posted by JFE24 View Post
    DC, my pair of PB&Js doesn't have a recommended line, but I played with the mount position a bit and I love where I've been skiing them. Follow suit at your own peril....

    Straight tape pull, tip to tail, on the PB&J = 186.3 cms
    True center = 93.15 cms
    My boot sole center = 88.9 cms from the tail
    Set back from true center = 4.25 cms

    My (horribly subjective) take on this is that somebody who was going to hit the flippy / spinny stuff hard could move these forward 1 or 2 cms and be fine. For more directional skiers, I don't think these need to get mounted further back.

    I hate getting tip dive when I'm skiing centered in pow, and some of the more forward mounts that definitely make life better for the flippy spinny action can certainly compromise this. At -4.25cm from true center, I wasn't getting tip dive or getting bucked forward. Seems to me that this ski has a pretty large sweet spot with respect to the mount position. Go +1 or -1 of my line, and you'll likely be fine. But I'm sticking at 88.9 from the tail.

    It'll be interesting to see where MOMENT ends up drawing the line.
    Killing it with the review!

    From the pictures, it looks like the Rocker is a little more elongated, volkl-esque (amongst other companies), than say the s3, which to me is pretty sudden and severe (not good or bad, just my observation)

    Looks very promising.
    Do I detect a lot of anger flowing around this place? Kind of like a pubescent volatility, some angst, a lot of I'm-sixteen-and-angry-at-my-father syndrome?

    fuck that noise.

    gmen.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    560
    I want some. Comparable to the bridge?
    My drinking buddies say i have a skiing problem...

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by DHogg View Post
    I want some. Comparable to the bridge?
    DHogg, the way it turned out, I didn't have the chance to ride the Bridge down in Las Leñas. (I was slated to ride them near the end of our trip, then it started dumping and I was mostly skiing 120mm+ boards till the very last day.)

    wtbthree, however, did ski the Bridge and this is his review:

    http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...bridge-179cm-2

    And here's an important paragraph from Will's review:

    "However, while the subtle, full-rocker profile preserves the Bridge’s effective edge length, the ski’s stability at speed is compromised to some degree, especially during high angle turns with increased edge pressure. It was not hard to take the Bridge to its stable limit in carving up groomers. A ski with the exact same dimensions and length, but with traditional camber, would have felt more stable and locked in during an aggressive carve."

    I've got to be careful here since I didn't ski the Bridge. Plus, Will's Bridge was a size 179cm, my PB&Js were 188cm.

    Will talks about finding the Bridge's speed limit. When he and I were maching groomers, he mentioned this several times. All I can say is that, on the exact same runs, I definitely was not finding the PB&Js speed limit.

    It's important to remember, too, that the PB&J is cambered underfoot, whereas the Bridge is flat.

    So yeah, loosely "comparable" in the sense that they are both easy and intuitive to ski, but really, it doesn't seem like a very direct comparison.
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    JH
    Posts
    407
    That's fucking interesting, man...
    Good review. Blister's been killing it. There was also a rave review of these things in TTips late last spring. Just to assuage my conscience, is there any sort of a weight number that we can get on these skis?

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by telelebowski View Post
    That's fucking interesting, man...
    Good review. Blister's been killing it. There was also a rave review of these things in TTips late last spring. Just to assuage my conscience, is there any sort of a weight number that we can get on these skis?
    Thanks, man. Should have the new digital scale in a couple days, should be able to post weight by Friday.

    Whether on your feet or in your hand, they don't feel noticeably light, and they don't feel noticeably heavy for a 188cm ski.

    (No extra charge for that super helpful tidbit.)

    Will post some "sort of a weight number" soon.
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by telelebowski View Post
    That's fucking interesting, man...
    Good review. Blister's been killing it. There was also a rave review of these things in TTips late last spring. Just to assuage my conscience, is there any sort of a weight number that we can get on these skis?
    One of the PB&Js weighed 2200 grams / 4.86 pounds, the other came in at 2230 grams / 4.92 pounds. That's flat (subtracted the weight of the mount plates and screws).
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    JH
    Posts
    407
    Thanks, man! Appreciate it a great deal!

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,280
    JFE... Every description I read mentions this "centered mount" --- quote from several websites: symmetrical flex and center mount for the park" is it meant to be center mounted?.... I assume there is more than one mount line on these skis, how'd you decide on your -4.25 mount?
    Do I detect a lot of anger flowing around this place? Kind of like a pubescent volatility, some angst, a lot of I'm-sixteen-and-angry-at-my-father syndrome?

    fuck that noise.

    gmen.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac View Post
    JFE... Every description I read mentions this "centered mount" --- quote from several websites: symmetrical flex and center mount for the park" is it meant to be center mounted?.... I assume there is more than one mount line on these skis, how'd you decide on your -4.25 mount?
    Funny, MOMENT's been calling a number of their skis, "center mounted": The PB&J (isn't, see below), the Night Train (isn't) the new Ghost Chant (is), by which I mean, where the factory recommended line = dead center mount. So when MOMENT says "centered mount," they seem to mean, "with a less traditional, more center-y-ish mount."

    The PB&Js we received from MOMENT for testing were prototypes - prototypes that underwent no changes that I am aware of for production. The skis had no line on them, but had been mounted with Marker Jester demo tracks and bindings. I basically just liked the look of the mount position when I clicked in (my 306mm Lange RX 130) with the heel and toe at 306 on the tracks, and figured I'd adjust to taste as I skied them.

    I liked the taste a lot, and never adjusted. That's why I'll be sort of curious to see where MOMENT draws their factory recommended, but truth is, I now don't care where they set the line, I like life at -4.25.
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Boston, MA
    Posts
    151
    how are these in terms of stiffness? how would they do in bumps? .. I assume these are fairly nimble/playful and quick?

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    420
    Definitely "nimble/playful and quick." As I say in the review, these tails, while they don't flex all that stiff, are certainly there. I'm a bit of a tailgunner in bumps (cause it's fun), and unlike, say, the Rossi S3s where you can just sort of ride along on the soft tails all nice and happy, the PB&J will ask you to stay forward. The tails aren't beasts by any means, but tailgunning steeper zipperlines wasn't the ideal way to ski the PB&J.

    And to be clear, personally, I wouldn't change the tail at all. That flex felt just about perfect everywhere else on the mountain, so I'll just tail gun less.
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Boston, MA
    Posts
    151
    I don't know why, but some dude from BC.com was adamant that I buy the TST as opposed to the PB&J for my EC daily driver.. I couldn't understand why.. between your review on Blister and the specs of the ski, it seems absolutely perfect for an EC rockered ski. .. Freeskier gave it a 5/5 for carving ability.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    420
    I haven't skied the TST, so can't say. Did the BC.com guy say he'd skied both?

    Other thing, I sort of hate "5/5" type ratings. If we can assume that by 5/5, they're talking about other 100mm, tail rockered skis, then okay, yeah, it's a very good carver in that class. But Jesus, compared to a race ski, the PB&J is what, maybe a 1/5? 2/5?

    I suppose that's obvious and so ought to go without saying.
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Boston, MA
    Posts
    151
    that's a good point.. I assume it's across their 4 categories of All Mtn, Powder, Park, Big Mtn... makes sense because the pow skis get 4-5/5 on float and mediocre scores on carving.

    but yeah.. I don't put a lot of stock in those point rating systems. it's totally subjective based on ability, size, and ski preference.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Minden, NV
    Posts
    106
    Jfe24... I had the first generation of the nighttrains, and i believe the reco line on those was -5 from true center. I weigh 205 and the nt dove on me quite a bit. I moved the mount back about 2 cm and did not like the way they skied, so i got rid of them. Im looking for a @100 waist everyday all mtn ski, and these have me intrigued, but im wondering if the will end up skiing like the nt. I live in northern nevada and like supporting the local companies. Maybe it wouldnt be an issue because the pbandj isnt a straight up powder ski like i was using the train for. Anyhow, interested in your thoughts

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkshakes View Post
    Jfe24... I had the first generation of the nighttrains, and i believe the reco line on those was -5 from true center. I weigh 205 and the nt dove on me quite a bit. I moved the mount back about 2 cm and did not like the way they skied, so i got rid of them. Im looking for a @100 waist everyday all mtn ski, and these have me intrigued, but im wondering if the will end up skiing like the nt. I live in northern nevada and like supporting the local companies. Maybe it wouldnt be an issue because the pbandj isnt a straight up powder ski like i was using the train for. Anyhow, interested in your thoughts
    I suppose the first question is, when it starts getting to be 12" or deeper, are you still going to break out the PB&Js, or do you have bigger boards you'll go to anyway? If you're skiing really wet, heavy snow, I'm not willing to guarantee that you aren't going to get tip dive on the PB&Js. Down in Las Leñas, I didn't experience any tip dive with the PB&Js mounted at -4.25 from true center.

    I've written up some thoughts on the Night Train vs. the Bibby Pro (and the Night Train vs. the Jaguar Shark.) You might want to take a look at the NT vs. the Bibby Pro part, especially the stuff about people falling either into the Bibby camp or the Night Train camp:

    http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...ht-train-186cm

    The PB&J skis like a narrower Bibby Pro, NOT like a narrower Night Train. Night Train is almost flat underfoot, the PB&J has camber. Very different skis, very different feel. If you told me you didn't like the Bibby, I don't see how or why you'd dig the PB&J. But telling me you didn't dig the NT leads the door open for the PB&J, for sure. (Sorry, not sure how helpful that is.)
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Minden, NV
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by JFE24 View Post
    I suppose the first question is, when it starts getting to be 12" or deeper, are you still going to break out the PB&Js, or do you have bigger boards you'll go to anyway? If you're skiing really wet, heavy snow, I'm not willing to guarantee that you aren't going to get tip dive on the PB&Js. Down in Las Leñas, I didn't experience any tip dive with the PB&Js mounted at -4.25 from true center.

    I've written up some thoughts on the Night Train vs. the Bibby Pro (and the Night Train vs. the Jaguar Shark.) You might want to take a look at the NT vs. the Bibby Pro part, especially the stuff about people falling either into the Bibby camp or the Night Train camp:

    http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...ht-train-186cm

    The PB&J skis like a narrower Bibby Pro, NOT like a narrower Night Train. Night Train is almost flat underfoot, the PB&J has camber. Very different skis, very different feel. If you told me you didn't like the Bibby, I don't see how or why you'd dig the PB&J. But telling me you didn't dig the NT leads the door open for the PB&J, for sure. (Sorry, not sure how helpful that is.)
    Your response was plenty helpful. Ive never been on a bibby, so i cant compare. i definitely would break out the powder boards for anything fresh, so any sort of tip dive probably a moot point, like you said. Thanks for the info.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkshakes View Post
    I definitely would break out the powder boards for anything fresh, so any sort of tip dive probably a moot point, like you said. Thanks for the info.
    If by powder boards you mean Powder Boards, then I think PB&J + PB = pretty certain win.
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Golden, BC
    Posts
    1,071
    I'm having a tough time deciding between these and S3's.

    I'm a lanky bastard, 6'4", 165#. I'm not a charger so much, I more try to get as much enjoyment out of every foot of vertical I can. Quite enjoy smaller cliffs (15' max so far). I have pow skis (Icelantic Keeper), groomer skis (60-some underfoot). I'm looking for a ski for the <6" days.

    JFE, you were saying that the S3 tip was too flimsy. Do you think that will hold true for a light guy like me? Will I be wishing that I bought a burlier ski than the S3 as the season starts up?

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by angrysasquatch View Post
    I'm having a tough time deciding between these and S3's.

    I'm a lanky bastard, 6'4", 165#. I'm not a charger so much, I more try to get as much enjoyment out of every foot of vertical I can. Quite enjoy smaller cliffs (15' max so far). I have pow skis (Icelantic Keeper), groomer skis (60-some underfoot). I'm looking for a ski for the <6" days.

    JFE, you were saying that the S3 tip was too flimsy. Do you think that will hold true for a light guy like me? Will I be wishing that I bought a burlier ski than the S3 as the season starts up?
    Most honest answer? I don't know.
    More important question? Do you ski steep, bumped up or chopped up faces? Or lines with big, fast, often chopped up run outs. (West Rustler, Alta; West Basin Ridge runouts, Taos.) In this stuff, I can't imagine that you'd prefer the S3 to the PB&J.

    If I was going to ski zipperlines all day, I'd prefer to be on the s3. It's a soft, quick, short ski, with a tail that will allow you to tailgun. The PB&J is very good in bumps, but it is longer, with stiffer shovels, and a tail that will be less happy to let you get away with tailgunning.

    If I was going to ski 6" of fresh, I'd be very happy on either.
    The faster I was ripping groomers, the more I would favor the PB&J.
    The deeper stuff gets, the more I would lean toward the PB&J.
    The steeper stuff gets, the more I would run for the PB&J.
    The choppier stuff gets, the more I would insist on the PB&J.

    Both are fun, very easy and intuitive skis. Both do mellow very well, the s3 maybe does mellow a bit better. The more you want to dial up the speed and the slope angle, the harder you should look at the PB&J.

    p.s. For whatever it's worth (not much, perhaps): Just remembered that wtbthree skied some runs on the s3 at A-Basin. He's about 6'2," 165. We did a couple laps down East Wall, (open, bumped up face) and he was pretty over the s3. I believe the quote was, "Dude. It's an intermediate ski." If pressed, wtbthree would certainly admit that, for the right person and in the right places, the s3 is far more than an intermediate ski. (Back in the day, Cody Barnhill used to do sick things on the s3). Point is just that, on that terrain, I know of one guy about your size who definitely wished the s3 was burlier. (Do what you like with that anecdote.)
    Last edited by JFE24; 09-12-2011 at 11:28 PM.
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Baltimore/Seattle
    Posts
    2,429
    Dude, JFE, you are the awesomeness. Thanks again for providing solid feedback on a number of skis.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Turin, Italy, Europe, World
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Dude, JFE, you are the awesomeness. Thanks again for providing solid feedback on a number of skis.
    Piling up for the Thanks: very complete and "solid" infos on subjective matters.

    And, btw, I think I'll give PB&J a chance, freeheel of course.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    420
    Thanks, guys. Glad to hear it's been helpful.
    www.blistergearreview.com


    "Jib the Death Grinder and your name will live forever." - splat

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Golden, BC
    Posts
    1,071
    Wow, that was a lot more info than I was expecting. Thanks man.
    I'm leaning rather heavily toward PB&J now. I don't suppose you also got the chance to ski the 182 length as well? Because that would be sweet.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •