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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telematrix View Post
    Hi, obviously not much of a contributor here but I have used gimp central as a lurker and feel I have something to add to this discussion. On October 4th I had surgery at the Steadman clinic in Vail with LaPrade. Besides a shredded meniscus and a couple of cysts my real problem is articulated cartilage damage on the lateral side. In the previous year I have been offered a meniscus transplant, a femoral osteotomy and partial knee replacement from three separate Boston ortho's, one of whom had a direct view into Gillette Stadium($$$$). LaPrade offered me a basic clean up; remove cysts, debridement of the cartilage, meniscus trim and a floating bone chip under the knee cap removed. He was the only guy who would to do a cleanup. Everybody else thought I was to far gone and wanted to get drastic. I asked for and received PRP and Stem Cells from my hip. LaPrade believes in PRP and thinks it more effective long term then cortisone. He has a PRP company on site at the Vail Surgical Center.

    The good news is LaPrade and his team offers Stem Cells treatment. My bone marrow was harvested from my hip, the stem cells spun out and injected into the surgical site at the time of the procedure. The bad news is LaPrade does not think it is that effective, at least for my issues. He said that the stem cell concentration from bone marrow is only 1% as opposed to the much richer stem cell concentrations from other sources like they are approved for in Europe. I insisted and got it anyway. He was cool and I liked him and his team.

    So how is my knee? To early to tell. Doing rehab- swimming with fins, stretching, balance work, single leg strength work now, biking and I have even done some hiking. I had previously had zero knee surgery's. I have a lot of rebuilding to to, in last three years my leg and ass has shrunk significantly. The destruction the cyclops cyst was causing in the lateral front of my knee is HUGELY improved with its removal. My articulated cartilage damage behind my knee still hurts quite a bit. He was not aggressive with the meniscus trim on purpose and I still think it is irritating my bone on bone. The hope is we have enough improvement in the pain that I can align my knee with better musculature in my legs and ass ( and the loading it is going to require to build) like I had previously, which was significant. I am going back in February and getting another round of PRP and Stem Cell. It is going to be hard to pull out what part the stem cells played in my improvement if any but I am super glad I had it done.
    I thought bone marrow stem cells were cultured to increase the amount injected.....?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    I thought bone marrow stem cells were cultured to increase the amount injected.....?
    The fda does not approve any stem cell culture, regenexx used to do it and the fda sued them.

    In Europe, there is one outfit itrt in Spain that can do this, with very good results.

  3. #103
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    If you're talking extraction and injection same day like most organizations do in the US then no, cells are not cultured. Some European countries allow for culture but at least as of three years ago FDA guidelines were much more prohibitive in that regard.

    Edit: What he said.

  4. #104
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  5. #105
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Yeah just as a clarification: He had about 10 million embryo cells injected into him, in any knee procedure, you would not use these type of cells, most of the time the cells are taken are from the hip bone and if you are past a certain age, adipose ( fat cell tissue) tissue is then used. Embryo cells would never be used for two reasons : ethics and the fact the cells are like a Ferrari without brakes. In his situation, that does not really matter. One stem cell injection from the hip bone has about 10,000 cells and not all of those are stem cells, however, stem cells from the hip - Bone Marrow Aspirate, is enough to significantly help our helps. You would not need embryo cells. At the Steadman Clinic, they provide Stem Injections in addition to your original surgery, its a bit of circus because you start the surgery on your stomach to extract the stem cells out and then end on your back, facing up. The Steadman Research Stem Cell Clinic is one of the most advanced in the country and they just found out some new cutting edge information that was passed down to me: its not the stem cells themselves that cause the growth factors, but the pieces and cells that break off of the stem cells themselves. This is literally information they found out 4 weeks ago.

    One thing to note, stem cells are the future for many reasons. Its not a cure all thing, its more about the constant progression of healing over time and each injection heals you. Once the FDA catches up, you will be able to get injections like once a year and it will be covered by insurance. Then as you near your older age and think about those knees getting replaced, you will more than likely get cultured cells injected for a period of several straight years or once a year for the rest of your life. This is all possible. Ive spent the past 6 months on the couch injured researching it, I am not an MD, but a lot of MDs are not educated on it. Say what you want, be skeptical if you choose, but I will leave you with one simply statement my athletic trainer told me at Steadman Hawkins:

    There are 570 stem clinics in the United States alone, with over billions of dollars invested, they aren't working with this much money if they did not think it was going to change way we do medicine

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lineskinj View Post
    Yeah just as a clarification: He had about 10 million embryo cells injected into him, in any knee procedure, you would not use these type of cells, most of the time the cells are taken are from the hip bone and if you are past a certain age, adipose ( fat cell tissue) tissue is then used. Embryo cells would never be used for two reasons : ethics and the fact the cells are like a Ferrari without brakes. In his situation, that does not really matter. One stem cell injection from the hip bone has about 10,000 cells and not all of those are stem cells, however, stem cells from the hip - Bone Marrow Aspirate, is enough to significantly help our helps. You would not need embryo cells. At the Steadman Clinic, they provide Stem Injections in addition to your original surgery, its a bit of circus because you start the surgery on your stomach to extract the stem cells out and then end on your back, facing up. The Steadman Research Stem Cell Clinic is one of the most advanced in the country and they just found out some new cutting edge information that was passed down to me: its not the stem cells themselves that cause the growth factors, but the pieces and cells that break off of the stem cells themselves. This is literally information they found out 4 weeks ago.

    One thing to note, stem cells are the future for many reasons. Its not a cure all thing, its more about the constant progression of healing over time and each injection heals you. Once the FDA catches up, you will be able to get injections like once a year and it will be covered by insurance. Then as you near your older age and think about those knees getting replaced, you will more than likely get cultured cells injected for a period of several straight years or once a year for the rest of your life. This is all possible. Ive spent the past 6 months on the couch injured researching it, I am not an MD, but a lot of MDs are not educated on it. Say what you want, be skeptical if you choose, but I will leave you with one simply statement my athletic trainer told me at Steadman Hawkins:

    There are 570 stem clinics in the United States alone, with over billions of dollars invested, they aren't working with this much money if they did not think it was going to change way we do medicine
    The science for stem cells is encouraging but any researcher worth their salt will admit there are still loads of questions. I'm glad to hear significant money is being invested and only hope exacting science comes to fruition faster than other areas which have also attracted big money.

  7. #107
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    Still, this is pretty cool stuff. Little late for me, but, by the time you young'ins get old, it's going to be good.

    Fuck Trump

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    The science for stem cells is encouraging but any researcher worth their salt will admit there are still loads of questions. I'm glad to hear significant money is being invested and only hope exacting science comes to fruition faster than other areas which have also attracted big money.
    You make some great 'general' points and yes a lot of the money is anonymously donated (NFL,NBA,NHL players). Also you have to look at how far we are come in Orthopedic Science specifically - from wide open incisions to the arthroscope to stem cells. The next step is obviously no outside incision at all. The researchers at Steadman's Stem Cell facility are not questioning, it is more of a "matter of time." They aren't saying "how" more like "when or "how much" in the field.

  9. #109
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    Dec 2005
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    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Lineskinj View Post
    The Steadman Research Stem Cell Clinic is one of the most advanced in the country and they just found out some new cutting edge information that was passed down to me: its not the stem cells themselves that cause the growth factors, but the pieces and cells that break off of the stem cells themselves. This is literally information they found out 4 weeks ago. [/I][/B]

    Interesting. Please share more info on this.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by otodd View Post
    Interesting. Please share more info on this.
    Dr. Laprade (one of the few educated and qualified Knee Surgeons who also is up to date with stem cell engineering) just told me this when I went to see him. I do not have any further information on it at this time, but I can after following and researching the past 6 months, stem cell engineering is getting better and better. In 5 years we will have a lot of more data.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Little late for me, but, by the time you young'ins get old, it's going to be good.
    Lord, I hope so.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Obviously the article doesn't have all the medical details, like the nature of the spinal cord injury--complete transection vs partial--but the time course is consistent with spontaneous improvement of a bruised cord. Could be the stem cells, could be spontaneous healing. Of course now people who have been paralyzed for years will be demanding treatment. The article seems to imply that the USC protocol requires the procedure to be done very soon after injury. If the stem cells do work it will be one of those innovations that saves a huge amount of money over time, no matter how expensive the treatment is.

  13. #113
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    I'm a believer but there are obvious hurdles. The key would seem to be direction of stem cells; how do you get them to do the job you want done. The idea of maintenance injections is appealing.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    I'm a believer but there are obvious hurdles. The key would seem to be direction of stem cells; how do you get them to do the job you want done. The idea of maintenance injections is appealing.
    Stem Cells are like guided missiles, they do they're job in the area they are injected, what they are trying to figure out currently is what exactly is the reason for those guided missiles and why they work the way they do.

  15. #115
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    "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size."

  16. #116
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    I have an appointment with Dr. Laprade , in Vail on Monday.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Still, this is pretty cool stuff. Little late for me, but, by the time you young'ins get old, it's going to be good.
    You should try telling that to the 80 year olds getting them. They'll get a good laugh.

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