Thread: Norway bombing and shooting....discuss

Originally Posted by BCMountainHound

Even stable natural system produces statistical outlyers, deviants, and extreme mutations. They cannot be predicted or effectively controlled without damaging the core elements of the system (crazy though it may seem, those extremes even provide a valuable purpose). The best we can do is study the response of the more extreme groups/individuals within the normal range, and do our best to moderate the pressures that might otherwise push those 'normals' to attempt to emulate the original.

The universe is only perfect in its design, not its implementation. Even water, in all its forms, does not 'flow' so much as 'bump'. Fun, eh?

EXACTLY!!! One of the more thoughtful and thought-provoking responses in the thread.

I would find it difficult to classify this creature as a human, but deranged and horrific as his acts may have been, the worst thing society can do is modify its behaviors in response to this so utterly completely that society loses the very values of living in a free society.

I am thoroughly disgusted by this creature's actions, but society can no more be fully prepared to prevent this anomoly than you or I would be prepared to prevent the next car from skipping across the opposite lane and careening into us at 65 mph.

Actions such as these that are so far outside the subset of normal human behavior are nearly impossible to predict and almost as hard to prevent.

Sure, you can impose stricter and stricter laws and regulations; have facial recognition cams on every street corner; the gov tapping into every single piece of text that you write on ANY device or speak into ANY phone; and a host of other forms of governmental surveilance but the question is: How does one surveil the inner boundries of the mind?...and an even more important question: Should we? The answer to the former is that it may become MUCH more possible to do just that in the future. The answer to the latter is and must be a RESOUNDING NO.

This creature's mind must have been a swamp of crazily strange ideas echoing inside his head like the shoutings of a mental institution...an utter cacaphony, but our minds will be the only real private property we have, the only territory we can travel without trespass from others....that sancity must remain untrampled if we are to remain even somewhat free as a society.

It is human nature to respond to this horror of an event with more laws and whatnot pertaining to security, but if we have learned ANYTHING from 9/11, it is that security cannot be legislated in whole, it must come from the individuals that make up society and NOT be thrust upon society like some smothering canvas.

And we learned something else, too...learned it from the Patriot Act that seeks to smother us now, and that is that cannot, MUST NOT, trade the freedoms that many in the past have died for an essence of security that upon inspection is only artificial.

Norway and Sweden have turned many corners in their past...from raiding Vikings to nearly being Nazi sympathizers (well, one of the two countries, anyway) to finally being twin lands that embrace personal freedoms that few western countries can match.

I can only hope that in response to this horrific act by one very sick and disgusting creature, they don't make the same mistake that our country has made and institutionalize the security and the surveillance state.

It is nearly too late for our counrty...so many are brainwashed by those who seek to trade freedom for security and those that propose even MORE acts as horrendous as the Patriot Act...

But it is NOT too late for the rest of the world.

PEACE.

Guns are simple devices, essentially all you are doing is accelerating a small piece of metal. Paki's can build them with the most rudimentary tools in some of the shittest places in the world.

There are countries with lots of guns and low violent crime, there are countries with lots of guns and lots of crime, logically the opposite of those two is also true. Clearly logic tells you guns do not have a causation type relationship to violent crime.

Guns are simply a tool and because we are mostly stupid creatures we believe that banning the tool somehow alleviates the underlying issue even though there is mountains of evidence to suggest otherwise.

This is one fucking nut job, in our history our societies produce they type of people time and time again. We do not falter, they do not determine who we are or how we live our lives. They are simply an aberration of a larger system we barely understand. Guns are not the problem they simply aren't, concentrate more on the underlying factors and you would do far more good than any stupid gun law would.

Originally Posted by Alaskan Rover

It is nearly too late for our counrty...so many are brainwashed by those who seek to trade freedom for security and those that propose even MORE acts as horrendous as the Patriot Act...

But it is NOT too late for the rest of the world.

PEACE.

What exactly don't you like about the Patriot Act? Have you read it? I haven't read it, but I keep hearing about how evil it is, I have yet to hear of any abuse of it in the media.

ArmadaBC, great post. About the best post I have seen written about guns.

Saw this today on Huffington Post re Glenn Beck's discussion on the Norway massacre:

Beck said the camp "sounds a little like the Hitler Youth. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Disturbing."

He then went on to say that he had warned that there would be horrible consequences due to the rise of what he called the "evil" strain of Islam in Europe. Islam, he said, is "squeezing the neck" of the continent, and multiculturalism is "killing" it.

But Beck was at pains to denounce Breivik completely.

"There is no difference between him and the 9/11 bombers," he said. "No difference. He is just as bad as Osama bin Laden. Period."

So, in other words, Breivik is a nut job, but he essentially agrees with him.

Originally Posted by The AD

So, in other words, Breivik is a nut job, but he essentially agrees with him.

Pretty much how the whole thing is being spun.

He's not one of us - despite him actually being very, very similar.

religious fundamentalists are evil - the name of the religion makes no difference.

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201107260038

from this guy:

Originally Posted by ArmadaBC

There are countries with lots of guns and low violent crime, there are countries with lots of guns and lots of crime, logically the opposite of those two is also true. Clearly logic tells you guns do not have a causation type relationship to violent crime.

Indeed, if one were to take into account what kind of guns there are.... then some trends could be made.

After all, some guns are more handy for crimes (mainly robbery etc.) than others. I mean, would you rather try to hide a .257 hunting riffle or a small hand gun?

The guns per capita -list is a pretty interesting read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_per_capita

US at the top, then Serbia (pretty high crime rate, but then again it's still a pretty torn country with a lot off excess weapons from the war). Yemen and other Middle East countries seem to be rather high as well, can't really comment on why nor what kind of guns.

CH is pretty easy to explain, as after the mandatory military service, they are given the guns (and ammunition in sealed boxes). Hunting is pretty popular in fennoscandia, so majority of the guns in Fin, Swe or Nor are hunting riffles or shotguns (atleast in Fin, hand guns can't be used for hunting).

Originally Posted by hemas

The guns per capita -list is a pretty interesting read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_per_capita

I don't see that list being accurate, especially in a country like South Africa where a cop told me you could get an AK for $20.

Originally Posted by AKPogue

I don't see that list being accurate, especially in a country like South Africa where a cop told me you could get an AK for $20.

That is very true... countries like Somalia are not on the list, simple because there is no information on how many guns are circulating there (a lot). And it's a compiled list from numerous sources (as is stated on the article, so the error margins can be quite big... which is also noted in the article).

So in that sense, the list and rank only give a idea on what the matter might be. At least for Fennoscandia, the figures are pretty spot on, as all the guns need to be registered (naturally there are some old loots from WW 2, that might not be listed... but the figures are pretty minimal in compared to the "official" guns). Isn't the same somewhat true for the US as well? But I'm sure the actual gun count is bigger in the US as well ("illegal" guns coming from the south).

Still, like I pointed out... the list should give a rough idea on the guns per capita ratios around the world... and should be somewhat accurate for most western countries, at least accurate enough for some trends to be drawn.

But as I also pointed out. This list doesn't mention what kind of distribution is between, big/bulky hunting rifles & shotgun, hand guns, military weapons (eg. CH), "home defence" weapons (I would assume a pistol grip pump shotgun would be pretty good for this... at least the Remington we used during service seemed to be pretty efficient on closed corters, like a bunker or inside buildings).

The context of Beck's comments on Norway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1pg_33fTzM

No big deal.

You might want to listen to the rest of it. You might learn something.

Anyone can call themselves a Christian. Anyone who tried to blame this guys actions of his "religion" is crazier than he is.

Your accusations are also evil. Not as evil as the Norway kook but trying to advance your anti-Christian views by exploiting this tradgedy is fucking pathetic.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Anyone who tried to blame this guys actions of his "religion" is crazier than he is.

You mean sort of like you did in hop's first thread when you thought it was muslims who did this?

Originally Posted by The AD

You mean sort of like you did in hop's first thread when you thought it was muslims who did this?

Radical islam outwardly uses terrorism in the name of their religion. They make the claims themselves. This Norweegian fuck didn't claim he was motivated by his religion. People with a bone to pick with Christians are taking the fact that he claimed to be Christian and superimposing that as his motivation.

OK, point taken.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Radical islam outwardly uses terrorism in the name of their religion. They make the claims themselves. This Norweegian fuck didn't claim he was motivated by his religion. People with a bone to pick with Christians are taking the fact that he claimed to be Christian and superimposing that as his motivation.

Now you're making an appeal for nuance... you deserve credit for writing Radical Islam instead of putting the blame on all Muslims, like you have done, for acts of terrorism perpetrated by Islamic extremists. Behring Breivik's terrorism has no more do with peaceful Christians in America than peaceful American Muslims have to do with 9/11.


Some people, no doubt, do have a bone to pick with Christians but it's mostly in the political sphere — when in entirely political terms culture warriors use Christianity as an ideology to legislate and control other people's lives. Breivik does not appear to be a Christian himself but he has claimed to be a Christian advocate. For him Christianity is defined entirely in political terms, enthusiastically describing anyone who opposes his world view as evil.

What I don't get is why silencers are easily bought over-the-counter in Finland when clearly their only purpose is to assassinate people. And why is one of my scariest weapons made by those damn Fin bastards?

I've got two words for anybody who thinks a Glock with a 30 round mag is more dangerous than a rifle: Chuck Whitman. And if he would have chosen a less conspicuous hide or switched his position he probably would have murdered even more random people.

Originally Posted by Jer

What I don't get is why silencers are easily bought over-the-counter in Finland when clearly their only purpose is to assassinate people.

I'll give ya a hint.... 4 AM + birdies eating yer berries + annoyed neighbours from wakin' them up from all that shooting...

So nope, silencers are not only used to assassinate people... at least here.

So now the crazy nutjob is imploring the authorities for a dismissal upon the grounds of....get this.....'SELF DEFENSE'.

He's basically saying that he was defending himself and his country from the onslaught of Muslims. He readily admits to all the killings, says he was happy to do it. He even gleefully joked about it in court yesterday and admitted he'd do it again in a heartbeat.

And under Norwegian law, the MOST time this guy can officially get is 21 years?????

WTF??

It has been stated, however, that he can be kept incarcerated or institutionalized AFTER his sentence is complete if he is deemed a threat to society (how in hell could he NOT be?)...much the same as in U.S. But those sentencing guidelines for such a heinious crime are just plain weird.

--

I'm still wondering why he decided to kill little native kids instead of taking out a mosque. At least self - defense would have made more sense in a twisted way.

Originally Posted by Moeghoul

I'm still wondering why he decided to kill little native kids instead of taking out a mosque. At least self - defense would have made more sense in a twisted way.

There's more to this story than what's being reported. The back story to this is that the Templar/anti-multiculturist slant is but a front for why this thing ever took place.

The story i read several months ago was that the (non-funded/broke) IMF and banking cabal was out of funds (a well-known admitted FACT) for their whole fiat banking/Ponzi scheme. Well-off Norway was flush with beaucoup cash from their oil revenue profits and lack of (IMF-) indebtedness. Hence, they became an attractive and natural target for extortion of that oil-money. The ruling party in Norway refused to turn over the money sought by the IMF. That is when useful idiot Breveik comes in as another Oswald or McVeigh, killing the sons and daughters of the very politicians who refused the extortion. Sort of like: "don't wanna help out the IMF's/Euro's cause? How would you like to have one less child then?"

Same thing happens/happened all over the World. The International Mafioso. With Hussein. Gaddafi. Japan (threats/earthquakes), Central America, South America, Indonesia, etc, etc...

Breivik is the mere mind-controlled media-doctored patsy sent to effect the whole extortion..

Originally Posted by machschnell

There's more to this story than what's being reported. The back story to this is the Templar/anti-multiculturist slant is but a front for why this thing ever took place.

The story i read several months ago was that the (non-funded/broke) IMF and banking cabal was out of funds (a well-known admitted FACT) for their whole fiat banking/Ponzi scheme. Well-off Norway was flush with beaucoup cash from their oil revenue profits and lack of (IMF-) indebtedness. Hence, they became an attractive and natural target for extortion of that oil-money. The ruling party in Norway refused to turn over the money sought by the IMF. That is when useful idiot Breveik comes in as another Oswald or McVeigh, killing the sons and daughters of the very politicians who refused the extortion. Sort of like: "don't wanna help out the IMF's/Euro's cause? How would you like to have one less child then?"

Breivik is the mere mind-controlled media-doctored patsy sent to effect the whole extortion..

You're nuttier than a squirrel turd. So is Breivik.

Well, I hope the aliens come back soon to straighten us all out.

WTF is going on in Scandinavia? This video from Sweden is so fucked up it cannot be rationally explained.

Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth Cake Controversy: Swedish Minister Of Culture Slammed For 'Racist' Cake

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...4.html#s877956

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Breivik stand to do far more time if he's deemed insane? Like 21 years max in "prison" vs an indefinit period in a loony bin? If I were the prosecution I'd be pushing for insanity.

Originally Posted by Moeghoul

WTF is going on in Scandinavia? This video from Sweden is so fucked up it cannot be rationally explained.

Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth Cake Controversy: Swedish Minister Of Culture Slammed For 'Racist' Cake

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...4.html#s877956

Actually....that cake is not necessarily as OVERTLY racist as it may seem....as there is a Swedish back-story that goes with that black figure. I can't remember it exactly...but it has something to do with a combination of a black Santa Claus and a sort of black "Guy Faukes"....stemming from a few hundred years ago...they don't use 'black' in a negative connotation. No...wait...that's the Dutch....nevermind.

So, yeah....that is pretty fucked up...especially coming from the Minister of Culture!!

I've worked with a bunch of Norwegians and quite a few Swedes...and yes, there DOES seem to be a lot of endemic racism amongst the Scandinavians....at least amongst commercial fishing Scandinavians I've dealt with. They don't hide their racism towards blacks in the least. Perhaps amongst the more cultured Scandinavians, such seeming racism is not as prevalent...but I've dealt with quite a few of them as well, owners of large companies and such....and such antagonism towards blacks doesn't really seem any less prevalent.

The Scandinavian countries, as much as they tout freedom and acceptance and kindness to one another....make no mistake that such free idealism is in large part directed at people that are of similar white origin. They are a famously homogenic society...and apparently many there wish to keep it that way.

--