Thread: Fast and Furious

Fucking stupid tv watching fat ass coke slurping breeding mouth breathers! That's who this is for.

Go ahead, vote the R-Money in. Citizens United pretty much ensured a win this election but this is the nail in the coffin for spineless Dems. As a collective we are too stupid to see through this. We deserve it.

America. So fucked.

Originally Posted by AustinFromSA

...in the upcoming election.

Ummmm.... there are no elections once martial law is declared. The only one who can save America now is Vin Diesel and his sexy sexy voice.

Originally Posted by 1080Rider

I agree, this is what is strange about the new "exec privilege" claim. Why not hold this at arms length, fire Holder and show that you want to do the right thing. Cleaning up a mess seems more "transparent" than helping to cover one up. And I don't think Obummer had any idea this shiz was going on, I think he's making a hudge mistake by not cutting bait and running...

Of course Obama knew. This kind of thing is right out of the Chicago play book. That's why he can't cut bait and run.

You guys are so naive.

Here's what happened. Holder was told to take the fall. He said F-you and threatened to throw Obama under the bus.

If Holder were fired, he would make a deal for immunity and Obama would end up impeached or worse.
Obama had no other choice.

Holder convinced Obama that once the docs were frozen, the investigation would die and fall out of the headlines. So why go down in flames.

How easily we forget how much crap John Ashcroft was embroiled in...covering up corporate crimes, etc. etc. I'm sure Obama is looking back at what Bush did and thinking that he can get away with doing this if the AG under Bush was even more shady. Give this a month or two...we'll see if its still big news...and like I said, not that it should just go away...

Originally Posted by Jer

Hey - while I'm on the subject - does anybody want a brand new AR-10 A2 buttstock? Just the stock - no buffer assembly. I forgot I had it until I was looking through some boxes last night. Made by DPMS. Make me an offer.

BTW - this is still for sale.



Also have some steel DPMS 20 rd .308 mags (phosphate).

Nixon covered up crimes of others

Obam's covering up his own.

Voting Democrat is kinda like going on a Jaggermeister binge:

"I remember 8-12 years ago when I used to drink that stuff - I don't remember it being that bad. Think I'll give it another try."

...then you wake up the next day naked in a puddle of your own congealed black vomit with a pounding headache and a nasty lasceration on your cock.

Then 8 to 12 years later....

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...xec-priv-claim

..."The only way to beat an executive privilege claim is by court order. To take this issue to court, the full House must vote to hold Holder in contempt of Congress, then—when federal prosecutors predictably inform the House that they will not prosecute their boss—the full House must pass a second resolution authorizing Rep. Darrell Issa to file suit in the U.S. District Court for D.C. on behalf of the entire U.S. House.

Holder will lose the court fight. He’ll appeal, of course, but eventually the appeals will be over, and we’ll all learn the truth of what really happened in Fast and Furious.

And whom to hold accountable."

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Nixon covered up crimes of others

Obam's covering up his own.

and no one was killed in Watergate.

I yell at the tv, do you do that too? The NBC is calling this a political witchhunt about a botched gun running operation, no mention that Holder has been stonewalling the investigation for a year, no mention that Brian Terry was murdered with a weapon that the DOJ let walk, no mention of the gun dealers that were told to let the guns walk by the DOJ asking for some written assurance that the DOJ has their back.

Originally Posted by jimmy

and no one was killed in Watergate.

I yell at the tv, do you do that too? The NBC is calling this a political witchhunt about a botched gun running operation, no mention that Holder has been stonewalling the investigation for a year, no mention that Brian Terry was murdered with a weapon that the DOJ let walk, no mention of the gun dealers that were told to let the guns walk by the DOJ asking for some written assurance that the DOJ has their back.

"Botched Gun Running Operation" pisses me off too. Nothing was "Botched". It did exactly what it was supposed to do.

The claim is that we wanted to follow illegally sold guns into Mexico so we could catch the buyers. BUT, UNLIKE BUSH's version (which was also dumb) the guns DID NOT have tracking devces built in. The Mexican government WAS in the loop. There was no way ATF could accomplish the stated goal.

In reality, Obama wanted untrackable guns to be sold into Mexico so the Mexican government would find them being used in Mexican crime. Then the Obama Admin could scream and cry about American gun shops and erode the 2nd amendment. There is no other explaination for the "program". But then Ooops, an American agent was killed, not some nameless Mexican.

EVEN THEN it took a whistle blower to "out" the program.

Obama litereally committed a crime in order to set up gunshops for a fall. His crime lead to a murder. This goes much deeper than just trying to get to the bottom of Brian Terry's murder.

100% of the Dems in the house have now participated in this cover-up by voting to save Holder.

This is political all right. But the guys playing politics are to guys participating in the cover up, not the Repubs trying to get to the truth!

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

"Botched Gun Running Operation" pisses me off too. Nothing was "Botched". It did exactly what it was supposed to do.

The claim is that we wanted to follow illegally sold guns into Mexico so we could catch the buyers. BUT, UNLIKE BUSH's version (which was also dumb) the guns DID NOT have tracking devces built in. The Mexican government WAS in the loop. There was no way ATF could accomplish the stated goal.

In reality, Obama wanted untrackable guns to be sold into Mexico so the Mexican government would find them being used in Mexican crime. Then the Obama Admin could scream and cry about American gun shops and erode the 2nd amendment. There is no other explaination for the "program". But then Ooops, an American agent was killed, not some nameless Mexican.

EVEN THEN it took a whistle blower to "out" the program.

Obama litereally committed a crime in order to set up gunshops for a fall. His crime lead to a murder. This goes much deeper than just trying to get to the bottom of Brian Terry's murder.

100% of the Dems in the house have now participated in this cover-up by voting to save Holder.

This is political all right. But the guys playing politics are to guys participating in the cover up, not the Repubs trying to get to the truth!

They didn't let guns walk, Dave Voth's team multiple times brought straw purchasers to federal prosecutors who then took no action. Voth's team was so unhappy with federal prosecutor's they went to the state level (unheard of) and still nothing happened. In 10 when they still couldn't get prosecutor's to actually you know prosecute the big 20 straw purchasers they tried to set up wire taps because straw purchasing requires that you can absolutely prove without a doubt that the gun is being purchased for use in a crime at the time its being purchased. They were unable again to get the wiretaps approved, bingo bango Terry is shot and within 24 hours the 20 straw purchasers Voth's team had been trying to get arrested for years are indicted by a grand jury.

This is not a case of the ATF going all fuck lets move guns to the Sinaloa cartel because we really love Juan Chapo Guzman rather its a mother fucking case study in how gov't stops working and how these type of events get twisted by those for political gain.

As an aside isn't funny that we talk endlessly about the guns we move to them but never how the Sinaloa came into existence or why they are so profitable or why the ATF has no database for long guns or why straw purchasing has such light penalties or why the Mexicans moved against Sinaloa in the first place which is the whole fucking reason why they buy 2000 guns in AZ a month.......I'm sure its a Barry conspiracy though.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

BUT, UNLIKE BUSH's version (which was also dumb) the guns DID NOT have tracking devces built in. The Mexican government WAS in the loop. There was no way ATF could accomplish the stated goal.

Tracking devices? Do you have anything on that?

Here's a pretty good primer on what this shit is all about: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...ag=mncol;lst;2

A couple of tidbits:

What is "Wide Receiver"?

"Wide Receiver" is the name ATF assigned to a group of gun trafficking cases investigated out of the Tucson, Arizona office beginning in 2006. Like Fast and Furious, it was supervised by ATF Special Agent in Charge Bill Newell. Sources indicate it involved about 275 "walked" guns. According to sources who worked directly on the case, the vast majority of guns were not tracked and Mexico's government was not fully informed of the case.

What are Operations "Castaway," "Too Hot to Handle," and the Hernandez case?

Operations Castaway and Too Hot to Handle are among a dozen or so other cases ATF operated that allegedly employed gunwalking in recent years including Florida, New Mexico, Texas and Arizona. In the Hernandez case, started under the Bush Administration in 2007, documents show ATF agents watched several suspects and weapons cross the border in coordination with Mexican officials who then failed to stop the suspects, so they were lost.

What is the White House position on who-knew-what-when?

President Obama has consistently said he knew nothing of any gunwalking while it was occurring. When asked about the gunwalking allegations by a reporter from Univision on March 22, 2011, President Obama stated that "a serious mistake may have been made." He also stated that there would be an investigation and whoever was found to be responsible would be held accountable. Documents and testimony since that time indicate then-National Security staffer at the White House named Kevin O'Reilly repeatedly communicated by email and telephone with ATF Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious, Bill Newell, about the case while it was underway. O'Reilly indicated in one email that he wanted to share information about the case with other National Security staffers, but stated that it would go no further than that. White House officials have said there is no evidence that Newell and O'Reilly ever discussed the controversial tactic of gunwalking and, on those grounds, have blocked the attempts of Congressional Republicans to interview O'Reilly, who has since been sent on assignment to Iraq for the State Department. In documents turned over by the White House to date, there is no evidence the President or others at the White House had knowledge of gunwalking.

One thing I still don't get is why Carlos The Cartell Boss would bother having somebody buy 2 dozen semi-auto AK's in Arizona and smuggle them across the border when he could get crates of full-auto AK's from an arms dealer at a fraction of the cost. Of course the later (and far more logical) example doesn't involve the BATFE busting US gun shops. WHY DOES CARLOS HATE US GUN SHOPS?!?!?! AND THE 2ND AMENDMENT?!?!?!?!

Originally Posted by Jer

One thing I still don't get is why Carlos The Cartell Boss would bother having somebody buy 2 dozen semi-auto AK's in Arizona and smuggle them across the border when he could get crates of full-auto AK's from an arms dealer at a fraction of the cost. Of course the later (and far more logical) example doesn't involve the BATFE busting US gun shops. WHY DOES CARLOS HATE US GUN SHOPS?!?!?! AND THE 2ND AMENDMENT?!?!?!?!

I believe it has to do with the gun laws in Mexico. If you get caught with a military grade weapon, like a full-auto AK you are royally fawked up the booooutt...whereas one can have a semi-auto AK and be fine. It has nothing to do with the US Constitution 2nd Ammendment as that is not valid outside of the US.

Hmmmmm.....

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
June 27, 2012: 5:00 AM ET


A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

By Katherine Eban



FORTUNE -- In the annals of impossible assignments, Dave Voth's ranked high. In 2009 the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives promoted Voth to lead Phoenix Group VII, one of seven new ATF groups along the Southwest border tasked with stopping guns from being trafficked into Mexico's vicious drug war.

Some call it the "parade of ants"; others the "river of iron." The Mexican government has estimated that 2,000 weapons are smuggled daily from the U.S. into Mexico. The ATF is hobbled in its effort to stop this flow. No federal statute outlaws firearms trafficking, so agents must build cases using a patchwork of often toothless laws. For six years, due to Beltway politics, the bureau has gone without permanent leadership, neutered in its fight for funding and authority. The National Rifle Association has so successfully opposed a comprehensive electronic database of gun sales that the ATF's congressional appropriation explicitly prohibits establishing one.


Read the rest at the link below..........

Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. Several, including Voth, are speaking out for the first time.

How Fast and Furious reached the headlines is a strange and unsettling saga, one that reveals a lot about politics and media today. It's a story that starts with a grudge, specifically Dodson's anger at Voth. After the terrible murder of agent Terry, Dodson made complaints that were then amplified, first by right-wing bloggers, then by CBS. Rep. Issa and other politicians then seized those elements to score points against the Obama administration, which, for its part, has capitulated in an apparent effort to avoid a rhetorical battle over gun control in the run-up to the presidential election. (A Justice Department spokesperson denies this and asserts that the department is not drawing conclusions until the inspector general's report is submitted.)

FWIW

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...furious-truth/

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^

Oh - in that case - case closed.

The BATFE is a great agency, Holder is pure as the driven snow and we just need much much tougher gun laws. Like make them all illegal.










ha - DUUuuuuururrrrrrrrrrrrrr.........uh.

Originally Posted by Jer

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^

Oh - in that case - case closed.

The BATFE is a great agency, Holder is pure as the driven snow and we just need much much tougher gun laws. Like make them all illegal.










ha - DUUuuuuururrrrrrrrrrrrrr.........uh.

Didn't/couldn't read it? Or couldn't understand it?

The House of Representatives,

in a historic move, has voted Attorney General Eric Holder in criminal contempt of Congress

for failure to produce subpoenaed documents in the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious.

The vote tallies were 255 yeas, 67 nays, and on present, and 110 Congressmen did not vote.

The vote fell largely along party lines, with 17 Democrats voting yea

The Congressional Black Caucus, as promised, walked out of the vote.

/\font style is like a psychopath

I'm starting to wonder if the executive privilege thing is more than just politics. Possibly for reasons of national security?!

I just made myself a tin foil hat, can you tell?

Originally Posted by Bunion

Hmmmmm.....

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
June 27, 2012: 5:00 AM ET


A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

By Katherine Eban

Looks like CBS and Fortune are at odds over this story.

Yet, ATF allowed some of the same suspects -- accused of being middlemen for Mexican drug cartels -- to continue to buy and transfer assault weapons. Sometimes, agents say, they videotaped the buys, but didn't interdict the guns.

Documents indicate intentions were good. The idea, according to those documents, was to "allow the transfer of firearms" to pinpoint big cartel crooks rather than the small-time traffickers supplying them.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...20070475.shtml

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Looks like CBS and Fortune are at odds over this story.

Not surprising it is a complex story and needs to be looked into.

It ain't the damming indictment of Barak Obama that gets DBT hard at night.

Originally Posted by Bunion

... needs to be looked into.

Tell me about it...

Originally Posted by Bunion

It ain't the damming indictment of Barak Obama that gets DBT hard at night.

I guess we'll see.

"Yeah....unnnnhhh....I got a question: is this...like... a God dam? Y'know.....huh huh... a God dam?"




Funny that when all this first came to light well over a year ago it was "nothing to see here - move along" and now it's "a complex situation that need looking into".

Soon we will know if Eric Holder weighs more than a duck.

Originally Posted by 13

I'm starting to wonder if the executive privilege thing is more than just politics. Possibly for reasons of national security?!

I just made myself a tin foil hat, can you tell?

What do you think the Mexican government is going to do when its official that the US government facilitated the sale of lagre number of weapons for use in Mexico.

Remember ATF Senior people instructed Gun dealers to (Break The Law) and sell to known bad actors.