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04-20-2011, 05:34 AM #1
2011-2012 ON3P Skis Available for Presale
Figured it was time to get a new thread going and talk a little bit about the stuff we’ve been working for our 2011-2012 line. Been a crazy few months with Rowen breaking his femur, actually getting to ski and sleep for the first time in a few years, and working on improvements to existing skis in our line and coming up with some fun, new ones.
Same delivery deadline as last year – October 15th.
Luckily for us, we are way ahead of where we were last year and our factory modifications and new machines are all completed and ready to go (vs late August last year). We are also 4 people full time now, which is a godsend for my sanity.
Skis will ship out as they are completed, so I expect first pairs to start going out in May and that should continue on until the fall.
We are still using 100% bamboo cores, carbon stringers, 1.8 x 2.5mm edges, 1.8mm 4001 race base, UHMW sidewalls and tipspacers. Pillowfights have full width carbon fiber to help make it as light as possible.
We’ve totally changed the way we design and measure our rocker profiles, going from a two radius profile to a much more gradual, smooth elliptical rocker profile. They plane better in pow and charge better through chop. We've changed our entire line over the these elliptical rocker profiles.
186cm & 196cm Pillow Fight
This ski was born when David Steele, Josh Anderson, and Rowen were a bit wasted and toying with ideas on what they would want for the ultimate powder ski. When they first told me about it, I rolled my eyes a bit, but after skiing on it (even though it is much more centered than my preferred powder ski, the CD), they are truly a lot of fun. We tested out a number of different sizes and rocker profiles. We all would personally be on 196cm, but got a ton of interest it seemed in the 186cm, so we decided to add that as well. A lot of that was on here, so hopefully those looking for a shorter Pillowfight are still interested. They are surprisingly easy to throw around due to the relatively centered mount, but with the rocker profile and huge tips they just smear and float over everything. And I think people will truly be surprised by how well they ski on hardpack as long as it isn’t rock solid. We've spent a number of days on them where we really shouldn't have been using them (as I am sure some PDX mags can attest) and they do way better than you would think.
Some video of Kip and Duncan doing some Pillowfights testing. Sorry about the terrible quality.
Kip hucking Upper E
Duncan “learning” cork 720s on 196cm Pillowfights
We are only doing 15 skis per size. Each pair will have its own individual topsheet, so they will be one of a kind. As they are super limited in volume and will come with full width carbon fiber (which significantly helps reduce the weight) they are not cheap and not going to be discounted for the presale. People were clamoring to get their place in line, so we decided to offer them up even before the topsheets weren't finalized. Should make some people really happy on pow days next year.
193cm Cease & Desist
The Cease & Desist got a fairly major overhaul this year. Slightly wider and longer, much larger elliptical rocker profile, and a longer effective edge to make them more manageable on hardpack. I am super super stoked on this ski and think people looking for pow ski they can charge on will be stoked.
Back with the same shape as last year, but with our new elliptical rocker profile. This ski kills it and we are seeing more and more people use it as an everyday ski. For this year, we decided to offer a Caylor Lite option in the 181cm & 191cm (not needed in the 171cm). Basically a slightly thinner core and lighter composite layup. Only going to build a small number of them, but figured it would be a good option for those who find the stock flex too stiff and aggressive.
The 176cm & 186cm maintain the same shape, again just getting the change over to our elliptical rocker profile. To offer a more aggressive option for 2011/2012, we added a 191cm length to give people who want what is essentially a mix between the 191cm Wrenegade and 193cm Cease & Desist. Charges almost as hard as a 191cm Wren, but with more float and maneuverability. Doesn't quite have the float of the C&D, but is better all mountain ski, lighter, and easier on the knee. My new favorite ski.
People always tell us to leave the Wren as is, but we think the changes we made resulted in a Wren that is faster and more aggressive than before. We dropped the full twin, leaving a ½ twin, and added the extra length to a longer, more shark-nosed style tip. Also gets a longer, elliptical rocker profile. Old wrens feel like park skis by comparison. To make the 181cm more of a charger, we redesigned the dimensions so that the turn radius on the 181cm was the same as the 191cm.
A new addition for next year, the Jeffrey is our answer to the “everything.” Named after my brother, it is designed to give people a more playful everyday option than the Vicik. Lighter and more jibby than the Caylor, but wider and with a larger turn radius than the Jeronimo, it is a ski we are all really excited for on those 4-6” days when you end up messing around the whole time.
Very similar to our original 115 underfoot Tacoma-made Jeronimos (now 108mm underfoot). We've been wanting to add these for awhile.
Graphics are still being developed.
It is only going to be in a 186cm right now. We’ve been telling people we will build a 176cm if there is interested for it.
Back again with a few changes. New elliptical rocker profile, a slightly softer & rounder flex, and a bit more taper in the tip shape to help it slice through chop a bit better. Slightly lighter than last years due to the thinner core profile. Excited to get these up on Hood this summer.
Oh and how can you go wrong with Wolves….
Another ski back relatively the same. We changed the composite layup slightly, giving it a rounder flex, and added our new elliptical rocker profile. Offering a 186cm Jmo option for people who want a longer park ski, or for those looking for a bit more stability than the current Jeronimo provides.
This is a new ski that we are all pretty excited for. Replacing the Blue Steele as our fully symmetrical park ski, the Filthy Rich has a new approach to how we design sidecut. We wanted something that was comfortable going straight into and out of jumps without being overly catchy, but was also more capable of carving into jumps and features compared to the Blue Steele. So we decided to use an elliptical radius that begins at about 19m underfoot and gets progressively tighter as you get towards the tip or tail (about 17m). Basically the harder you carve the ski, the more it grips.
Combined with the new elliptical rocker profile these skis create a pretty unique feeling park ski.
If anyone has any questions just shoot Rowen or myself an email or give the shop a call.
Last edited by iggyskier; 04-20-2011 at 09:54 AM.
04-20-2011, 06:47 AM #2
I just wanted to let you know... the graphics look killer this year. Profiles? Wicked. Keep up the good work guys!If you can't dig it, you ain't got no shovel
04-20-2011, 07:15 AM #3Registered User
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
rocker profile pics on the homepage? an option to click the images for a bigger picture?
04-20-2011, 08:21 AM #4
The new line looks great. Awesome job, Iggyskier and ON3P. If I just managed to get some wage work for all the time I've spent drooling over your skis, I could afford a set.
04-20-2011, 09:05 AM #5
Skis really do look great, the graphics this year are looking good and I'm sure the build quality will be there as always. Stoked to get on my first pair of On3ps this coming winter.
04-20-2011, 09:11 AM #6Registered User
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Fernie B.C.
looks great... I was almost certain I was gonna go for some 186 Vicik's to join my 09'-10' 191 Caylors and 186 BG's...... but now I'm kinda intrigued by the Jeffrey. I have my big ski's layed out for me with my BG's and Caylors so I am looking to fill the void of chopped/crust buster/groomers.... anyone to chime in? Sounds like the Vicik is much more of a directional charger and he Jeffrey is more playful poppy etc. like the caylor...
Iggy, would the jeffrey's be similar to the 08'-09' Jeronimo's with the green caylor topsheets of last year I got on? If so maybe that's the direction I'd want to go...?
04-20-2011, 09:27 AM #7
Good work and improvements, with some good concepts thrown in for good measure.
Can you edit each ski info section to add dims, turning radius, and how far from the tip of the ski the sidecut starts on bulletnose type models?
Just some additional info for the few of us that don't already know all the ON3P dims by heart...
04-20-2011, 09:37 AM #8
Moved from Above
Few other things....
- We have a small stock of 10/11 skis left (176cm & 186cm Vicik, 191cm Wren, 171cm & 181cm Caylor) on the store in the 2010/2011 sections. Discount is a bit larger than presale for 11/12 skis.
- We are also going to be selling off our 10/11 Demo Skis and any blems that we have kicking around. I will post more about what we have sometime this week, but if you are interested in a much more discounted pair of skis let us know. We have demos of pretty much everything, and some blem 181cm Wrens, 181cm Blue Steeles, & 191cm Cease & Desist along with a few other random pairs.
- Once the Jeffrey & Pillowfight graphics are finished I will post them up.
- We should start pressing skis within a couple of weeks. Not quite sure when the Presale will end. As we expect to see certain models building up stock within the time frame that we usually let these run (6-8 weeks), those models might go off presale earlier than the rest. We are still playing it by ear, though. Last two years we've had tons of factory rebuilding to complete while the presale ran. We are all ready to go right now, so not sure how it will alter the Presale just yet.
That's it for now. I will update the thread with the Jeffrey & Pillowfight graphics when they are ready, along with a better idea of our production schedule and Presale ending date once I have it.
04-20-2011, 09:38 AM #9I see you
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Seattle, WA
EVERY YEAR YOU MAKE ME WANT TO BUY ALL OF YOUR SKIS!
04-20-2011, 09:40 AM #10
Those presale prices are pretty aggressive. Like.
04-20-2011, 09:41 AM #11
excited for another year of ON3P porn. I must say, the new lineup looks like a big step forward. You guys are hitting your stride for sure.
edit to add: I was having rollover trouble before with the website on my mac with safari.
Last edited by ml242; 04-20-2011 at 09:52 AM......I hope you know that this will go down on your permanent record
04-20-2011, 09:45 AM #12Registered User
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Looks awesome btw! kinda wanna have them all =) do you have a packade deal for Jeronimo, jeffrey, 191 BG, pillow fight =)
04-20-2011, 09:57 AM #13
Sorry to ask something else, but do you happen to have some profile pics on hand you can throw up onto a post. I know they are somewhere but I can't remember which thread.
Oh, just saw that you added the sketches above showing profile. Thanks.
04-20-2011, 10:29 AM #14
You are pretty much dead on in your thoughts on the jeffrey vs vicik. The vicik (though it is slightly softer and more even flexing next year) is still a very directional ski, likes to have the tips out front, likes to be driven.
The Jeffrey is going to be a lot more playful and jibby feeling. The mounting point is much more centered vs the vicik, too, so just the way you balance your weight on the ski is drastically different.
If I wanted to bomb chute or crud and had no concern for going switch, I would go Vicik.
If you want to be able to do that (though not quite as well), but also want to have a ski that is more turny and responsive and playful, the Jeffrey will be a much better choice.
Think of them this way...
Vicik = Wren Jr.
Jeffery = Caylor Jr.
Hope that helps.
04-20-2011, 10:36 AM #15.....I hope you know that this will go down on your permanent record
04-20-2011, 10:45 AM #16
^^^ thanks for posting up those rockers profiles as well as the details on the jeffery.We heard you in our twilight caves, one hundred fathom deep below, for notes of joy can pierce the waves, that drown each sound of war and woe.
04-20-2011, 10:46 AM #17
The Jeffrey is just like I said above - The everything. It isn't going to be better than the caylor in pow, better than the wren in crud, better than the vicik railing GS turns on hardpack, or better than the Jeronimo in the park, but it can ski pow, crud, hardpack, and park pretty well.
The Caylor has lower camber than the Jeffery and a lot more rocker, so it is going to be the better pow ski and they can handle their own as an everyday ski too. If you want a bit more playfulness, go Lite. It is still going to be stiffer than hellbents/bentchettler/etc.
04-20-2011, 11:14 AM #18
Your effective edge measurements are length of sidecut, yes? I only ask for clarification because you used to included running length in the specs, and because the 191 BG gets 5cm extra length, but 10cm of extra effective edge (which actually having longer rocker specs).
So there is a slight shape change in the 191 BG versus the 186/176, in addition to the increased stiffness?
04-20-2011, 11:40 AM #19Registered User
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Denver, CO
It looks like you can figure out the running length from the diagrams at the bottom of the pages. For example on the 191BG, 40.56cm tip rocker and 30.29 tail rocker. 191-40.56-30.29 = 120.15 run length. So call it 120. The 186 is 117.
04-20-2011, 11:53 AM #20
As for why we don't include as much info as we used to, including running length and mount point (Billy goats mounted -7cm behind the -7cm line)...First, we found that our descriptions were causing confusion amongst some of our customers. It just became information overload for some people, so when we discussed doing our product pages this year, we decided to focus on the characteristics that we felt were most important.
Which brings me to the second point, which is that I didn't think running length was the best representation of how a ski feels on snow. A 191cm Caylor has a far shorter running length than a 186cm Billy Goat (97cm vs 117cm) but feels more solid on hard snow because of difference in turn radius and effective edge. So that was the information we decided to include.
04-20-2011, 11:54 AM #21
^^^ agreed... I was more asking for a confirmation that the shape of the ski is a little different (i.e. the widest points are a little farther away on this model).
04-20-2011, 11:56 AM #22
Last edited by iggyskier; 04-21-2011 at 10:28 AM.
04-20-2011, 12:52 PM #23
04-20-2011, 02:47 PM #24Registered User
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
Is the Caylor Lite going to be measurably lighter than the normal Caylor, or is it just a softer flex? Also, any chance you can press this year's Caylor with last year's top sheet?
04-20-2011, 04:13 PM #25
2012 Wrenegade review
Might as well add my reviews here so a bunch of ON3P stuff can all be in the same place
Me: 5'9", 175lbs, 27, skiing for 20 years, 40+ days a year, blah blah blah. I like to ski fast and straight, fly through the trees and hit airs. Nothing big though, probably in the 15-25 footer range. Anyways...onto the skis....
2012 Wrenegade (191)
I have been lucky to be involved with the design of this ski since the beginning and for a while definitely fell into the camp of "Don't change a fucking thing!" After two years on my first pair and through skiing other skis (original C&D had a big influence) I was definitely supportive of changing the tip shape, adding a little more rocker and lessening the rise on the tail. I originally thought it would be a true half-twin, something in between the 2011 Wrenegade and the 2011 Vicik. I was a little surprised when it came out of the box with a tail just like the Vicik. I personally don't consider that a half-twin, mini-twin at best or a slightly turned up tail is what I'd call it. After mounting them (w/Quiver Killers at P18s) I was a little hesitant to see how far back (comparatively) they were to my original Wrens, and I had those at -10 instead of -9. I was worried they might destroy me.
The first day on them unbelievable. Scott can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think my pair is any stiffer than what we be production pairs (my originals were stiffer) but the combination of the mini-twin and more tip length was amazing. They ski stiffer, carve better, and give you more confidence to charge harder. Although the running length is identical to the old ones at 162cm, the elliptical profile on the rocker allows that section of the ski to engage as if it weren't rockered at all. There is no catch or hook to speak of. I don't know what the sidecut length of the 2012 is but it is definitely longer and more noticeable. They can lay down train tracks on groomers, small moguls, crud, small children, you name it they will charge. At speed they perform no differently that Viciks on groomers, despite the extra width and better in the crud because of it. I haven't found a speed limit on them yet. The old Wrenegade was good, but the small changes to the tip shape, rocker profile and mini-twin are hugely significant. The tail will hold and lock turns extremely well and the little extra rocker in the tip will still let you scrub speed if you need to. I actually thought the Vicik would lock you in too well sometimes, but that might be my opinion.
Kip mentioned that going back onto the old Wrenegade makes it feel like a park ski by comparison. I would have to agree. My old Wrens are all but retired (having developed some significant tail rocker) but I've spent enough time on them to know how big a difference there is between the two. Before I got on them I was a bit worried that they would be too straight with a bit too much tip and I told Scott this. He told me that Kip had nailed the final design and to just go ski them. He was right.
Obviously not everything is amazing on these skis. Ice sucks, but ice sucks on everything, and they are a handful in the trees. No more difficult to turn than the old ones, but no easier either. One slightly worrying thing is they do seem to like to go faster everywhere, trees included (I hit one last weekend going way way too fast) The changes to the 2012 may not look like much on the surface but they have made the ski significantly better. It will be my everyday go-to ski after putting a significant number on my Billy Goats this year in that capacity. The Billy Goats may not see much more time on the snow actually because.......
Last edited by wren; 04-20-2011 at 04:48 PM.