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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
    U-Haul sells a class 1 hitch for the Sportwagon, but that is still only rated for 2000 pounds. It's not really a car for towing, though you could probably get away with towing something up to the size of a Sea-Doo Speedster.
    I have it on mine, but use it for the bike rack.
    Click. Point. Chute.

  2. #27
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    I had a 2000 Jetta TDi that I drove all over the mtn's of Colorado and never got stuck in the 5 years I had it except when the tires were worn. Studded snow tires and diesel torque and that thing drove nearly as solid as any subaru I've been in - regular snow tires are almost as good, but studded make it a monster in snow. It had 290,000 miles and lots of broken/tweaked parts on it when I sold it for $3000. Put a skid-plate on it and take it anywhere. I used to take my old TDi up 4x4 roads to access trailheads, nearly burned up the clutch getting it over a 1-2 foot high rock once. Fun car.
    Ride Fast, Live slow.

    We're mountain people. This is what we do, this is how we live. -D.C.

  3. #28
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    i have a 2001 vr6 jetta wagon. the cargo is pretty small unless you put down a seat- i have a box, its pretty good in the snow for a fwd. X2 on the low clearance- i also broke an oil pan- serious bummer. its low and exposed. its a good car though. might be selling mine in the east soon if you are interested.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by icelanticskier View Post
    and to put snows on a 4wd vehicle is overkill unless you suck at driving in winter conditions.
    Sorry, but I have to disagree strongly. Snow tires and 2WD is better than regular radials and 4WD, particularly if you will be covering big miles on snowy/icy roads. Modern snow tires are amazing (not to be confused with deep lug or studded tires). Of course most of it is the driver but we are comparing equipment here. I've driven all kinds of 4WD and 2WD vehicles (with and without snow tires) to ski areas for over 30 years and the difference a good set of snow tires makes is obvious. Not so much putting it into 4WD. Yes, it helps, but not as much as good snows. And the proof is all the SUV's in the ditch with owners who thought 4WD was a replacement for snow tires.

    4WD is good for providing a few more options in where you can park without getting stuck but, again, snow tires make a bigger difference, especially if the driver is a good snow driver.

  5. #30
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    LOL, x2....4 wheel go doesn't mean 4 wheel stop.
    Click. Point. Chute.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AweShuksan View Post
    Sorry, but I have to disagree strongly. Snow tires and 2WD is better than regular radials and 4WD, particularly if you will be covering big miles on snowy/icy roads. Modern snow tires are amazing (not to be confused with deep lug or studded tires). Of course most of it is the driver but we are comparing equipment here. I've driven all kinds of 4WD and 2WD vehicles (with and without snow tires) to ski areas for over 30 years and the difference a good set of snow tires makes is obvious. Not so much putting it into 4WD. Yes, it helps, but not as much as good snows. And the proof is all the SUV's in the ditch with owners who thought 4WD was a replacement for snow tires.

    4WD is good for providing a few more options in where you can park without getting stuck but, again, snow tires make a bigger difference, especially if the driver is a good snow driver.
    Funny, I was reading through this thread and was going to quote that same statement and rant on...

    AWD + 4 snow tires = WIN.

    2WD + 4 snow tires = meh.

    AnyWD + all seasons = FAIL.

    That is all.

  7. #32
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    ^^^

    This!

    Snow tires are for stopping. AWD is for pulling. Anyone who tells you different is a fucking fool.
    Johnny's only sin was dispair

  8. #33
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    My Volvo is the same platform as that Mazda 3 and with the Dunlop Wintersport 3D's I run in the winter it's amazing what that little car will go through. Clearance is an issue but add an aluminum skid plate and most of the worries go away. It weighs 3200 pounds so it just plows through everything, traction control works it's little heart out and the car just keeps plugging away through 10" of broken mashed potatoes.

    There were some hairy rides home this winter and I watched all the best Euro and Asian AWD rigs fighting their way through the conditions at 20-30mph while I motored by in the left lane at 40-45. Bottom line was their all season or sport tires sucked. The ones that did have the right tires, if there were any, were just pussies I guess

  9. #34
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    Jan 2009
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    Gotta say you will not get to my house at Parleys without 4wd of some sort and snows, preferably studs, at least 20 days a yr. Otherwise I generally agree with the above. No front wheel drive with snows will get you up a steep unplowed road. Ski hill, yes.
    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  10. #35
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    Another jetta TDI wagon owner here (mine is 2003). I run dunlop graspics in winter and can get through almost anything - only limiting factor as mentioned before is clearance. This can be addressed a little by adding a 2" lift to the car (I think that is the max) - something easy to do when having the shocks/struts done that is not super expensive.

    Also, I echo what folks have said adding a skidplate to protect the oil pan. Highly recommend Evolution Imports such as:

    "A local is just a dirtbag who can't get his shit together enough to travel."

    - Owl Chapman

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AweShuksan View Post
    Sorry, but I have to disagree strongly. Snow tires and 2WD is better than regular radials and 4WD, particularly if you will be covering big miles on snowy/icy roads. Modern snow tires are amazing (not to be confused with deep lug or studded tires). Of course most of it is the driver but we are comparing equipment here. I've driven all kinds of 4WD and 2WD vehicles (with and without snow tires) to ski areas for over 30 years and the difference a good set of snow tires makes is obvious. Not so much putting it into 4WD. Yes, it helps, but not as much as good snows. And the proof is all the SUV's in the ditch with owners who thought 4WD was a replacement for snow tires.

    4WD is good for providing a few more options in where you can park without getting stuck but, again, snow tires make a bigger difference, especially if the driver is a good snow driver.
    agreed that 2wd with snows kicks ass as that's how i rolled with my accord wagon for 8 winters. however, without those snows the car was useless compared to my jeeps or my crv with regular all seasons. i would never waste my money on snows for the crv. tried it, it works. if you feel you need snows, good on ya, spend away.

    rog

  12. #37
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    I'm w/ Rog on this one. I still think you can get away without snows with a good 4wd. I will concede that snow tires do aid in stopping distance, but my concern is the ability to get through the deep snow, snow banks, etc. The longer stopping distance can be compensated for with conservative driving (which is probably something that many 4wd owners don't understand, hence they end up in the ditch). 4wd with all seasons > front wd with dedicated snows, but that's just MHO for my conservative driving style, and I've owned both. Even a beater Jeep Cherokee simply kills it in the snow...

  13. #38
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    We have some serious M/S's on the Yukon...they sufficed in one of the worst winters in recent Tahoe history...no needs for snows here..with this car bust still on my Jetta is a must.
    Click. Point. Chute.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by icelanticskier View Post
    if you feel you need snows, good on ya, spend away.
    I don't need snows to drive in the snow anymore than I need sharp edges to ski ice. It just makes it better.

    And in the bigger picture it doesn't cost much to run snows because the summer tires last a lot longer when they aren't running all winter. It's just an upfront cost that becomes irrelevant over time. It can actually save money if their extra capability allows you to avoid the bozo (without snows) that is trying to slide into you. Bodywork is not cheap compared to a set of winter rims. And, I don't have to run crappy rubber compounds designed to be mediocre at everything in the summer heat. My motto is to use the right tool for the job. But if I was broke I would drive whatever I had and probably be fine. I'd even run winter tires in the summer heat if that's all I had, I would just keep their limited capability in mind. not ideal but it would get me where I was going.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by icelanticskier View Post
    agreed that 2wd with snows kicks ass as that's how i rolled with my accord wagon for 8 winters. however, without those snows the car was useless compared to my jeeps or my crv with regular all seasons. i would never waste my money on snows for the crv. tried it, it works. if you feel you need snows, good on ya, spend away.

    rog
    WTF? You do know that it's sixes in the long haul (give they are dedicated and your're not pulling them off twice a year)? Best of both worlds. All Seasons = No Seasons. Seriously. Unless you just like a shitty compromise. No one cares less than me.
    Johnny's only sin was dispair

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Deep View Post
    WTF? You do know that it's sixes in the long haul (give they are dedicated and your're not pulling them off twice a year)? Best of both worlds. All Seasons = No Seasons. Seriously. Unless you just like a shitty compromise. No one cares less than me.
    well johnny, that's some deep shit. thanx for caring

    got anything else for me that i may not know? cuz i could care less, really.

    rog

  17. #42
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    Jan 2011
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    103
    Never had problems with my all seasons, but then they are also an on-road/off-road tire.

  18. #43
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    All-terrain truck tires (e.g., BFG A/T, Bridgestone Revo, etc.) are much better in snow than all-season passenger car tires.

    I would expect a Jetta diesel wagon to be as good in snow as any other FWD car -- no better, no worse. Ground clearance may be an issue. Chain checkpoints may be an issue.

    I will not buy any more vehicles that are 2WD if I expect to ever need to drive them in snow. Fun vehicles, sure (been considering a Cayman again). But for a daily driver/ ski mobile/ camping/ biking rig -- no way. 4WD, and I use a separate set of snow tires in winter too.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flexon Phil View Post
    LOL, x2....4 wheel go doesn't mean 4 wheel stop.

    All my cars feature 4 wheel stop.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by chatton18 View Post
    You might want to look at some of the smaller awd suv/crossover type cars too. They're getting better mileage these days and are not that crazy compared to a vw. Remember with diesel prices being about 20% higher than regular gas the 40MPG is really equal to about 32. At this point a subaru/suzuki sx4/small suv w/awd is in the same category in terms of MPG, will do well in snow, cost about the same and lack the possible $6k repair at 120k
    Yeah, I know, that is the dilemma. Part of the reason I am leaning towards a diesel is that the cost of ownership is so low though. These cars do not lose their value. People are asking and getting $15,000 for a 7 year old car with 80,000mi. This car cost $25,000 brand new. 11 years old with 200,000 miles? If it is in good shape - $8,000. If you don't beat it to shit, the car depreciates $2,000 a year the first two years then $1,500 after that. Can't find another car that depreciates this slow. However, one accident (cornering is the only accident I can think of that could ever be avoided with AWD) would throw these numbers firmly into the advantage of the AWD 28mpg Suzuki S4, Outback, Mazda etc.

    40 is very conservative. Not sure if the MPG tests are skewed somehow against diesels, but lots of people can document that they get 50+ and even 60 without major modifications (except modifying how hard they press the accelerator).

    Also, you should check your math. Your fraction is done such that you consider regular to be 20% lower, which would require diesel to cost about 25% more. For example $3.20 for regular and $4.00 for diesel would be gas costing 20% less than diesel, but in this same instance diesel is 25% more than gas. It seems that many gas drivers make this error when calculating the benefits.

    I don't think Diesel has ever been 20% higher, at least around here on the EC. More like 10% and the same price as premium.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    I don't think Diesel has ever been 20% higher, at least around here on the EC. More like 10% and the same price as premium.
    And every so often, although doesn't seem like its happened for a while, diesel costs less. I remember when diesel was going a good $0.20-$0.30 LESS than regular gas.

    According to the VW enthusiast sites, there will be a new TDI passat sedan next model year, and a wagon version the following year. 4motion is supposed to be an option on the Passat. I wouldn't hold my breath on that though. A dealer told me the reason there isn't more clean diesels is that the government limits how many are imported each year, so the big 3 can compete with a superior design, that they apparently lack.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Yeah, I know, that is the dilemma. Part of the reason I am leaning towards a diesel is that the cost of ownership is so low though. These cars do not lose their value. People are asking and getting $15,000 for a 7 year old car with 80,000mi. This car cost $25,000 brand new. 11 years old with 200,000 miles? If it is in good shape - $8,000. If you don't beat it to shit, the car depreciates $2,000 a year the first two years then $1,500 after that. Can't find another car that depreciates this slow. However, one accident (cornering is the only accident I can think of that could ever be avoided with AWD) would throw these numbers firmly into the advantage of the AWD 28mpg Suzuki S4, Outback, Mazda etc.

    40 is very conservative. Not sure if the MPG tests are skewed somehow against diesels, but lots of people can document that they get 50+ and even 60 without major modifications (except modifying how hard they press the accelerator).

    Also, you should check your math. Your fraction is done such that you consider regular to be 20% lower, which would require diesel to cost about 25% more. For example $3.20 for regular and $4.00 for diesel would be gas costing 20% less than diesel, but in this same instance diesel is 25% more than gas. It seems that many gas drivers make this error when calculating the benefits.

    I don't think Diesel has ever been 20% higher, at least around here on the EC. More like 10% and the same price as premium.
    Diesel here is 4.25 and regular is 4.05..hardly 20%. But again, fuel cost and mileage was part of my decision. Resale and torque were also a big part. Now, if Subaru would get their heads out of their asses and bring their diesels over from Europe, I might go back to them.
    Click. Point. Chute.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flexon Phil View Post
    Diesel here is 4.25 and regular is 4.05..hardly 20%. But again, fuel cost and mileage was part of my decision. Resale and torque were also a big part. Now, if Subaru would get their heads out of their asses and bring their diesels over from Europe, I might go back to them.
    I've kinda given up hope for now. If you're on Facebook there is a very active Bring Subaru Diesel to the US Page with 2500 members. Sort of a beggars paradise with lots of good info coming across on all makes and models of diesels.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglymoney View Post
    I've kinda given up hope for now. If you're on Facebook there is a very active Bring Subaru Diesel to the US Page with 2500 members. Sort of a beggars paradise with lots of good info coming across on all makes and models of diesels.
    I gave up hope too. I was part of a focus group a couple of years ago when the talks first started. One of the reasons I leased my 09 Forester for 2 years is that there was a good chance the we were going to get it at that point. Obviously, it didn't happen. With Toyota controlling some of the purse strings, focus for the US will be hybrid technology.
    Click. Point. Chute.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by icelanticskier View Post
    well johnny, that's some deep shit. thanx for caring

    got anything else for me that i may not know? cuz i could care less, really.

    rog
    When I don't give a shit, I don't reply. Seems easy enough.
    Johnny's only sin was dispair

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