Edit of footage of skier caught in avalanche, viewed from above and from in the slide

[wcf3]

The following edit gives a couple perspectives of a skier caught in an avalanche. One from above, the 'observer' view, captured by my helmet cam when the avalanche occurred and one from 'onboard' captured by StuntCok's helmet camera while he was in the slide. StuntCok's raw footage was posted in the thread

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...Emergency-Gear

There he gives a good overview of his experience and a discussion of the avalanche safety gear that came into play.

I also posted a link to a youTube (e.g. low quality) version of the following video fairly late in the thread. I had only just finished my edit when the discussion there was winding down and hadn't had time to follow the discussion while it was taking place. Here I am providing a higher quality (vimeo) version in it's own thread so that those that might have missed it in the first thread get a chance to see it.

In this edit I have tried to include a cronology of events and point out significant events that occurred during his ride. Many of the things that happened and actions he took just prior to the start of the slide and during the slide itself can only be seen clearly through the use of slow motion techniques which I made extensive use of. I tried to insure that precise time stamps are attached to these events by using the clocks from the raw footage which I aligned to a time at the start of his run when both cameras were in the same location. In addition, I've included some photos of the slide path itself that help illustrate the magnitude of the slide.

[UTaho']

Thanks for posting this. Glad Jeff is okay!

[ColoMike]

Thanks for putting that together. Very well done!

[TGR420]

Wow. Glad you were ok to put this video together. Thanks for the feedback.

[assman]

Sobering.

props to the skier caught in the slide for keeping a cool head and utilizing all the avy tools available to him.

Huge props to those companies that developed the avalung and bag.

[climbhigh1119]

Thanks for posting, glad the gear worked out for you. I'm curious - what if any red flags did you see prior to skiing the slope? You mentioned in the other thread that pits were dug by the guides with good results, but didn't give any details beyond that.

[truth]

John is an asshole. Fuck that guy.

[lynchdogger]

Great edit. The other vid at full speed was hard to pick up all the details you pointed out. Second the props to the companies that designed the tech that helped prevent further injury. Amazing stuff. Glad Jeff is OK. Thanks for posting this.

[wcf3]

Thanks for posting, glad the gear worked out for you. I'm curious - what if any red flags did you see prior to skiing the slope? You mentioned in the other thread that pits were dug by the guides with good results, but didn't give any details beyond that.

Prior to our arrival, there had been a long period of persistent high pressure over Alaska and the Yukon. (In some areas the barometric pressures measured were the highest on record). This lead to a lack of percipitation and high winds through the mountains. This left in most areas a thick layer of windslab as the effective base to the new snow we were skiing on. (Imagine Las Lenas after a long dry spell).

The week before 0.5"-2" inches of new snow had fallen. There had been one clear cold night that week that had lead to some surface hoar development on this thin layer. There had been additional new snow (6"-18", depending on elevation and zone) 2-4 days prior and light winds in most areas. The new snow was 'right side up' or uniform for the most part, since the weather had been warmer at the start of the snowfall than at the end and had had a couple of days to consolidate.

As such, the major risks were from a larger area with a hoar frost layer under the new snow, and/or places where the new snow was poorly bonded with the windslab. We hadn't seen any larger patches of hoar frost higher up in that zone on that aspect or at the top of the run we were on. The run we were on also didn't have a history for hoar frost developement. We seen some sluffing down to the bed surface but nothing that propogated seriously.

[1thenaton1]

W, thought that was you in the other vid.
Nice job putting this edit and commentary together, glad everything turned out well.

Any stoke on the way from this trip?

[wcf3]

Any stoke on the way from this trip?

Plan to post something soon.

[Daveycooper]

I was hit by an avalanche in the French Alps about a month ago, I deployed my "Sac ABS" just as the avalanche hit me. I didn't hear any sound, I turned around saw a wall of snow, I had nowhere to run and had a fraction of a second to react. It took about 2 seconds for the bag to fully inflate, during this time I had the washing machine treatment. I lost both skis with the impact. Once the bag was inflated, I was near the surface and for me, the key was that I was stable on top of the slide. In fact I was able to change my orientation to go feet first until the avalanche stopped. In total I guess I slid 300 metres (1000 feet) distance with a 150 metre (500 feet) vertical drop. Obviously, if I had hit a tree or dropped off a cliff the airbag wouldn't have been so useful.

[Slaag Master]

happy ending. slope conditions with snow sliding down at the begining look like everyday stuff here in the wasatch. looks like the propagation to skiers right was more westerly facing and getting more sun heat. thanks for the time to share this.

[StuntCok]

John is an asshole. Fuck that guy.

Yah, I know what you mean....

[postski]

Wow!!!! Wonder if you should have marketed this vid ---- sure shows the value of the gear.

[BrianH]

Congratulations on your survival.

Lessons learned?

1. If using both an ava-lung and airbag, always user the avalung first? There was a bit of a double clutch, first you fumbled for the ripcord, then put the ava-lung in place, then finally deployed the bag. Should this be standard operating procedure?

Was it very useful to have both tools? I ask because it seems that if the bag is deployed successfully (a big if, I realize), then the need for the lung is lessened. But if somebody fumbled too long with the lung, they may not be able to deploy the airbag. Yes it gets complicated.

2. You were skiing with guides, who presumably made all the decisions. Did all members of the party have the bags? Does the presence of this gear, and it's supposed increased safety margin, change the perception of risk? (Maybe the guides would have to answer this one).

Thanks for posting this, there is a lot of good analysis to come from this.

[cocacola]

I was in Valdez the same week with H2O. Snowpack was incredibly stable. Never saw anything move the whole week except for your normal AK sluffing on the really steep stuff. Wondering where that terrain was that slid.

[BestofShow]

Incredible video and learning experience. Glad everyone Jeff and everyone else is ok.

[Modello-17]

Glad Jeff is OK...
just proves to show that that guy John....
is an asshole.

Glad your skiing continued.

[Asnowboarder]

"2. You were skiing with guides, who presumably made all the decisions. Did all members of the party have the bags? Does the presence of this gear, and it's supposed increased safety margin, change the perception of risk? (Maybe the guides would have to answer this one)."

As a longtime guide and occasional client I will take a stab at this from my experience on both sides of the table.

1) Even when you are under a guides...guidance I guess, YOU are responsible for your actions. We will do our best to keep you safe and give you the information necessary and available in order to have a safe and enjoyable experience. YOU should ask questions and be proactive about you and your buddies safety. Asking your guide about their decisions and process by which those decisions are made is a positive pattern that will get you into the radest terrain available at the time you are out shredding. This starts when you arrive at the operation you are patronizing. Ask questions and create a dialogue without being annoying and overly confident. Also: be solid with your beacon searches, start to finish, from rough search to pinpoint. It should be muscle memory just like your turn.
2) As far as the gear and a decreased perception of risk-
There are many tools throughout the years that have made the mountains more accessible and 'safer.' Yet people are still killed and injured every year in accidents just like this one. You cannot change your decision making process solely due to increased gear implementation and innovation.
The objective hazard of where you are at the day and time of your adventure is what needs to be evaluated every time via the same process. The subjective factors, in this case extra safety gear, a solid crew and a previously skied slope are all exactly that: subjective. An increase in the solidity of the subjective factors does not change the objective factors. When evaluating entering into a 'risky' situation there needs to be an honest look at both factors, independent of each other. The decision to go or not to go is made after both sets of hazards are independently evaluated and then considered as a whole.
3) Just because a slope has been skied does not mean it is safe, it only means it was stable at the exact time it was skied and in the manner it was skied. This is a temporal scale issue. If you notice the turn style of the victim in this video you will see he expends a lot of his weight into the bottom of the turn rather than to the outside of the turn. When you exert your energy into the outside of the turn rather than the bottom you are not exerting as much shear stress on the snow, decreasing the odds you will over come the shear strength of the bonds in the snow...that and it looks cool
This is a good thing to keep talking about, it is rare that we get to learn so much from an incident that does not involve death or life changing injury.

[Lelandjt]

When the skier feels and sees the snow break loose he throws a hard right edge to try to get out to the right. His tails sink into the crumbling snow and he falls. Shouldn't his reaction have been to point it straight down the hill to accelerate before trying to angle out the side or just pinning it straight down since this slope ends in a wide open bowl?

[wcf3]

I was in Valdez the same week with H2O. Snowpack was incredibly stable. Never saw anything move the whole week except for your normal AK sluffing on the really steep stuff. Wondering where that terrain was that slid.

Just to be sure that you have the week identified correctly, it was March 27th-April 2nd (the first week with a lot of new snow). In the previous week, there had been a couple of inches of new snow in most northern zones and one clear, cool night which had lead to some surface hoar developement. We were flying mostly north of 40 mile and couldn't get far south due to unreliable weather on the pass. I'm guessing you were flying with H20 more southerly zones. Some of these (such as Brown's canyon) had received more snow in the previous week.

Although we hadn't seen any serious instability up to that point, a surface hoar layer on the old snow had been seen in a couple of pits (mostly at lower elevations). Further, the new snow wasn't always that well bonded with the old windslab that had been there for some time. This was evidenced by the fact that many couloirs (probably lacking good lateral cohesion) had slid without any trigger down to the (windslab) bed surface in places. Can't say that I would describe the avi risk at the time as 'considerable' or worse, but I also wouldn't have called it 'increadibly stable' either.

Also, I should note that although I have some avi training and a fair amount of time in the backcountry and heli-skiing, I am by no means an avalanche professional. As such, all my comments regarding the snowpack should be taken with a large grain of salt.

[teton snow and air junky]

very glad that the outcome was so good ('cept for the chetler) and Jeff didn't get broken or drowned in a 40 plus second ride. thanks a ton for the edit, the slow-mo was a great touch, along with the time-lapse from point of fracture. i really appreciate you putting this together, it is a great learning tool on several counts.

i'm impressed enough with the gear to start saving pennies - i think it showed it's merit well; although not a fail proof system, it does exemplify that it, by most instances assumedly, will help better your odds against full burial, as well as trauma from getting tumbled.

i've crowned plenty of snow in my time, but never been carried - knock on wood. again, it's super cool of you to put this together. its a perfect video textbook, and brings it right straight into mind the risks we are assuming, and now, it shows us the utility of the new technology. so kudos, i really appreciate it.

above, "asnowboarder" quoted: "3) Just because a slope has been skied does not mean it is safe, it only means it was stable at the exact time it was skied and in the manner it was skied. This is a temporal scale issue. If you notice the turn style of the victim in this video you will see he expends a lot of his weight into the bottom of the turn rather than to the outside of the turn. When you exert your energy into the outside of the turn rather than the bottom you are not exerting as much shear stress on the snow, decreasing the odds you will over come the shear strength of the bonds in the snow..."

i'm gonna throw $.02 more at that, and say that i tend to agree. we all have different styles. i particularly appreciate a "smooth" skier aesthetically, but, in an instance such as this, where there is a risk of triggering a break, i always keep it in mind and mention to my partners "to think light thoughts, and ski light on the snow." sounds gay, right? but let's think about it..

to me, it stands to reason that the more you jump, or push mostly at one concise point in your turn, (as opposed to being more evenly weighted throughout the turn), you may be applying greater momentary stress and inertia to the bond. as always, there is a threshold of energy that it takes to break the weak bond.

my thoughts are that to increase one's odds of a safe decent, you should consider your skiing style and the way you are interacting with the snow; and perhaps if needed, adjust your style, ski lightly and fluidly, and not test the bond anymore than necessary. i've got a friend or two, and they are great friends, but their style is almost to "punish" the snow. lots of up and down motion in a short distance, and I can't help but to think this type of style increases their odds of breaking something off. kinda like when you ski cut.. do you just glide and cut, or do you pounce that shit making an effort to fully test the bond?

interesting to me.. any other thoughts out there on different skiing techniques and the potential mitigation of risk? for example, i'm guessing that fatter skis, and larger yet smooth turns would mitigate your chances in any given scenario. the fat skis are displacing your weight better, not riding as deep, and generally keeping you from "pounding" the bond quite as hard. also, turn techniques compared: short "jump turny" type turns likely create a greater impact and stress, and test the bond more so than a longer, generally larger radius, and "smoother" floaty turn, where there is not so much of a "jump and land" or "up and down" force being applied to the snowpack.

again, lots to learn from the video. great edit. truly appreciated. and a good jump off point for some good dialogue. thanks for sharing

[wcf3]

When the skier feels and sees the snow break loose he throws a hard right edge to try to get out to the right. His tails sink into the crumbling snow and he falls. Shouldn't his reaction have been to point it straight down the hill to accelerate before trying to angle out the side or just pinning it straight down since this slope ends in a wide open bowl?

Some of this has been discussed in the other thread:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...Emergency-Gear

Although it is not completely obvious from the film, the slope is a bit convex, particularly to the right, at the point where the fractures started to appear. This becomes more pronounced further down the slope. The final crown line angled away on the right at roughly 50 degrees from the highest point in the crown. To reach this, Jeff would have needed (at some point) to angle much sharper than 45 degrees to the right. This would have also been 'against the grain' due to the convexity of the slope on that side.

For this strategy to work, he would have had to accelerate to get ahead of the slide, then turn sharply right and do almost a traverse of a considerable distance to get to the crown. Consider the following photo with such an 'escape route' drawn in. (Note what lies below).




Although it might appear in this photo as though there might be an escape route to the left, there was already a large (half a football field, say) portion of the slope behind him on that side that was already moving and the fractures were rapidly propagating across the entire slope, so it is unlikely he could have gotten out that way either.

Pinning it straight down? Maybe, if he had been ahead of the slide when it started, had a good head of steam already and got a call that he should run for it. The speed he had when he started (low) combined with the fact that the fractures propogated widely early on and the slide, once moving, reached a very high speed in short order, makes me think that this probably wouldn't have worked. (Quite apart from the risks involved in straightlining 1500ft-2000ft of vert on a 40 degree+ slope that one has only caught a brief glimpse of out of the window of a helicopter).

[Bunion 2020]

Great footage and editing job, thanks.

Comments?

1. Shit happens. When you are skiing in the terrain you were in it seems like this is the type of close call that can happen. Its heli-skiing, it ain't Croquet or Lawn Bowling.

2. No tip for the guide.

3. Further proof that items like air bags and avalungs can make a difference.

4. Keeping your head and "fighting like hell" make a difference.

5. Being willing to discuss this and pass on your first hand experiences could save a life down the road.

Again, thanks