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04-15-2011, 02:12 PM #76management problem
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I'll try and field this one, since StuntCok (in Tokyo) may not be up yet. The way the crown came off, there was really no where to go on the left, it all came off behind and above him. Getting to the crown line on the right was also essentially impossible for him as well, unless he had been going mach looney, and probably not even then, since that would have put him that much further down slope when it went and the crown line would have been even further away. When I came down after him on the bed surface, I couldn't see any way that he could have skied out of it.
I believe he did try to claw into the bed surface initially, but didn't have any luck. One reason for this (and one of the reasons it slid in the first place) was at the top of the run the bed surface was extremely hard and smooth. Apparently, the local topography had conspired with the wind during the dry period that preceded our visit to produce a 'wind polished' surface like you sometimes find at the top of couloirs, but don't often see over large areas (with the possible exception of places like Las Lenas where wind direction moves around quite a bit)."I just want to thank everyone who made this day necessary." -Yogi Berra
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04-15-2011, 04:42 PM #77
Wow. That is one hell of an edit Will. THe slo-mo under the snow always freaks me out a bit, even though I obviously didn't notice the details in the slide. It is better with music as well, maybe I should have been wearing my ipod...
Yah, no where to go to the left
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04-15-2011, 06:04 PM #78
Excellent edit and review of the situation. We can all learn a lot from this. Now go find the most unstable slope you can and through John in
I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...iscariot
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04-15-2011, 06:20 PM #79
Besides safety gear commentary, this one (like many clips of Alaskan avalanche incidents) really hammers home why you want to avoid terrain traps.
Life is not lift served.
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04-15-2011, 06:36 PM #80
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04-15-2011, 08:37 PM #81
Nice to see the safety equipment do it's job, i have the same setup float 30 and avalung, and i wear a helmet. I wish all of my skiing buddies would adopt the avi safety gear as i have.
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04-15-2011, 08:47 PM #82
Good thread, thanks for posting, glad you're OK.
A buddy of mine went through a pretty big class 3 this year, and he was extremely lucky to escape with only a mild concussion since he only had a hat and glasses on (amazingly, he isn't even euro). I asked him if he was going to start wearing a helmet and for some dumb reason he thinks he would have broken his neck if he had a helmet on, so he still skis without. As for me, my days of skiing bc without a helmet are over- I'd agree with you, it's right up there with a beacon.
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04-15-2011, 09:41 PM #83Banned
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just finally got a chance to see the video. pretty wild being under a world of white huh? so many folks, including avy pros ask me what it was like and what was going through my mind just before i got taken out by slab coming down on me, and what was going on while i was taking the ride. twas a bit hectic fer sure, but what are ya gonna do, but just do the best ya can and fight when you can. i think staying calm throughout the ordeal is paramount for all involved, especially for the victim and going with the flow till you feel like you can control your fate is so important.
so good of you for sharing this publicly. i too shared my experience and the documentaion is being used in avy courses here in new england.
not trying to cunt up anything here, but your experience hits home. a few pics from my ride. in an area where i'v espent hundreds of days skiing in all conditions. similar aspects were skied this day with good stability, but apparently not a short distance skiers left.
fortunately i literally swam out of this thing with out even breaking a fingernail or any soreness whatsoever the next day. found all of my gear as well and resumed skiing in other locations.
again, thanx for sharing
rog
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04-16-2011, 09:09 AM #84
AirBag, Shredder, and Cliff
Just to add I am glad you are ok and thanks for sharing this.
Questions for anyone:
- Do you feel you slide a longer distance with the airbag deployed?
- Did it feel like you pick up speed after deploying airbag?
- If you had thick trees or cliff below would you think twice about deploying airbag which may mean you slide for a longer distance into the shredder or worse over a cliff?
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04-16-2011, 09:24 AM #85
Why would you slide longer with an airbag? Other then a slight difference between the top of the flow and the deep snow having slightly more friction from the surface bed I don't see why you would go further. Personally I would rather be on top regardless. you are better off hitting trees on top with less snow, and therefore force, to push you hard through the grater. Same for rocks, better to flow over them then to get pushed into them. Not to mention the bumper effect of the airbag. Worse case, if you go over a cliff with an airbag, you might bounce once or twice on the landing...kind of like a portable Jolly Jump.
I am curious about the debate whether it is best to have it inflate behind you verses around the neck and in front of the chest. Logical would dictate the neck/chest style would offer the most protection. Personally I would like it to inflate a giant bubble around me that would roll me all the way to the heli LZ.
I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...iscariot
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04-16-2011, 09:49 AM #86
From what I have read about the AirBag dummy tests, the dummy's did in fact travel further downhill. If skiing the Slides at Whiteface or some of the BC areas around Mount Marcy in the Adirondacks with lots of trees and known avalanche deaths, the question I have is the AirBag a good option?
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04-16-2011, 10:04 AM #87
Good to see you ski away. Solid response from all involved.
I don't work and I don't save, desperate women pay my way.
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04-16-2011, 10:05 AM #88management problem
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Don't know if there are any statistics on 'distance travelled' with vs. without airbags. The only ones that would be in any way reliable would have to come from experiments (triggering slides on top of dummies with and without) since each real world incident is so unique. I think some of the airbag pack manufacturers have done these types of experiments but I can't remember where I saw that.
Personally, I'll always pull the trigger if I can, no matter what's below. As seen in the incedent above, the deployed bag reduces the risks of trauma from tumbling in the slide and the bag itself provides some impact protection in addition to the greatly reduced risk of burial.
Weighing all that against a possible (be no means certain) reduction in the distance carried (even if true) doesn't seem like a good trade."I just want to thank everyone who made this day necessary." -Yogi Berra
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04-16-2011, 11:23 AM #89Registered User
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Thanks for sharing Jeff. Glad you're ok.
Without being there at the time, and I know that it's a split second decision, but it did appear that you turned quite sharply back to the right and into the slide and lost all momentum. Was there any chance you could have continued out left (at around a 10 oclock angle) or straightlined the face? Again, I'm not criticising you as you seemed very calm and collected, I'm just trying to learn.
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04-16-2011, 11:31 AM #90
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04-16-2011, 11:54 AM #91
glad your ok. well done edit. un edited version was linked to in the ADN today. saw in the other thread the time frame of when the accident happened. finally enough snow to ski something steeper. hope the operator bought you a beer.
off your knees Louie
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04-16-2011, 12:11 PM #92Registered User
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04-16-2011, 12:17 PM #93
incredible. Glad you were able to share and happy things worked out.
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04-16-2011, 12:51 PM #94
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04-16-2011, 02:01 PM #95
Just caught up with this - StuntCok, so glad you came out ok from that slide. That was a helluva ride - thanks for sharing the helmet cam perspective, and with the follow-up edit and analysis.
"A local is just a dirtbag who can't get his shit together enough to travel."
- Owl Chapman
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04-16-2011, 09:29 PM #96
Good God anythings got to be better than being buried alive, i'll take my chances on the surface with an air bag.
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04-17-2011, 12:54 AM #97Crediamo in te, bici
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Perhaps you are reading something I haven't, but that is not what the WARI group that are posting here are saying about their testing:
This is the only publicly available testing report that I am aware, at least of the type that could be called systematic.
Glad the OP came out of this unscathed, and my sincere thanks for posting this. As I return to the BC I am looking to learn as much as I can, and this is the most helpful kind of info.
Without wanting to armchair quarterback this one iota, good call by the guides on terrain selection, IMHO. As others have pointed out, a much different outcome had the terrain been more 'complex'. An interesting, and effective (again, solely my only mildly informed opinion) balancing of the pressures of guiding in a commercial situation with the realities of risk.
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04-17-2011, 01:31 AM #98Mike Pow
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Good to hear you're safe and sound Jeff
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04-19-2011, 11:02 AM #99
OMG Jeff, happy you are OK!
Don't wear a helmet touring but this thread has me thinking of a few things. Thanks for sharing.
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04-19-2011, 11:15 AM #100
Glad things worked out for the best and you were OK!
By the way, I got a kick out of you pulling up to the Heli asking "Does that count as a run?"
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