Plum Guide vs 2012 Dynafit Radical?

[marshalolson]

You read my mind, was just searching big G for a manual, thanks. Good news on the brakes.

Not seeing any Guide drill pattern info on the PDF... For the toe I'm measuring 30mm x 27mm and for the heel 32mm (front holes) x 52mm x 36mm (rear holes). According to Wildsnow a Dynafit toe is 30mm X 26.5mm and the heel is 36mm x 52.5mm. Thought I heard the Guide was the supposed to be the same? Not good news for those wanting to switch from Dynafit.

Any idea what the space between the boot heel and the heelpiece should be? No spacing gauge ala Dynafit in the box.

not sure what your measurements are in regards to, but have mounted numerous plum's with dynafit jig and they have screwed in perfectly straight etc.

spacing is 4mm, which is the width of the t20 tool that came included.

[icelanticskier]

FWIW, ThinCover has been skiing on Plums lately and likes them a lot. Said they feel like they have a much more solid feeling retention than FTs. That being said, I'm perfectly happy with my FTs though.

well he snapped his beloved beautiful plums on mt washington skiing pow on friday. woulda had to walk the rest of the 3k of vert down, but a friend lent him his ski. nice friend.

says he's going back to his dukes. maybe he'll chime in here......

rog

[neck beard]

No? You don't say?? A new mostly untested product didn't perform as well as hyped???

[gregL]

well he snapped his beloved beautiful plums on mt washington skiing pow on friday.

Snapped where?

[Jonathan S.]

The part of the toe wing that holds pincer.

[roark]

I think these companies should be paying TC for his beta testing.

[Jonathan S.]

The part of the toe wing that holds pincer.

I should have added, more specifically, the metal surrounding the hole through which the pincer is attached.
(Broke in the horizontal plane, so where once was a hole is now just a semi-circle, with the rest of the top of the wing broken off.)
Note that he'd already had essentially a full season worth of skinning & skiing on these. (Still though, not good of course -- well, good that he's been out, but not good that the binding broke...)

[GeezerSteve]

Did he hit something or was it a fatigue crack?

[thin cover]

really did not want to bring this up since these things have performed ridiculously well all season on 50+ tours. But there was no impact at all just deep, albeit heavy pow, and it literally came off my foot, scary experience that I cannot repeat. So yeah dukes unless its mellow pow trees which is what I ski 90% of the time. I am hoping this is a fluke. Bad luck seems abound with me.

but to be fair the dynafits heel released on me on numerous occassions and I never had that issue with the plums, not to mention a much easier height adjustment and way more positive step in, fwiw.

[gregL]

Seems pretty beefy there, certainly no less so than some of the new Dynafit designs with the teardrop-shaped hole or the slot for Power Towers. How big are you, thin cover?

[LeeLau]

I should have added, more specifically, the metal surrounding the hole through which the pincer is attached.
(Broke in the horizontal plane, so where once was a hole is now just a semi-circle, with the rest of the top of the wing broken off.)
Note that he'd already had essentially a full season worth of skinning & skiing on these. (Still though, not good of course -- well, good that he's been out, but not good that the binding broke...)

I've seen that breakage before - skier was 175 lbs on Movement Goliath Sluffs - not being abused.

[thin cover]

Seems pretty beefy there, certainly no less so than some of the new Dynafit designs with the teardrop-shaped hole or the slot for Power Towers. How big are you, thin cover?

6 "4" 230-240lbs, used to ski way more aggressively on steeper terrain but any of my touring partners can attest that my turns were ginger. It was on a 40 degree pitch, and the guides are on some 190 rp112 hybrids.

So LeeLau,
you are saying I am not the first to snap these? maybe I should return to the ft12.

well he snapped his beloved beautiful plums on mt washington skiing pow on friday. woulda had to walk the rest of the 3k of vert down, but a friend lent him his ski. nice friend.

says he's going back to his dukes. maybe he'll chime in here......

rog

well he skied the rest of the line, did not want to rob him of the line, I glissaded down. he just hiked the the hiking trail down. Still an awesome friend and great partner, cant thank him enough.(Iv'e seen black diamonds)


edit to add: when I bought them I did not know they were first gen, when i asked I was informed they had been in europe for 4 years and were just now coming to the US, given my past experience this was of course the first question I asked.

[1000-oaks]

Anyone know how many generations there are, and what the changes were in each?

[Jonathan S.]

I've seen that breakage before - skier was 175 lbs on Movement Goliath Sluffs - not being abused.

How much usage prior to breakage? And when did it occur?

edit to add: when I bought them I did not know they were first gen, when i asked I was informed they had been in europe for 4 years and were just now coming to the US, given my past experience this was of course the first question I asked.

Plum race bindings have been around for awhile -- first season though for the Guide. (And of whom did you ask this question?)

I did some compare/contrast just now of that area with the two most recent Dynafit generations. (That area for Dynafit is the same across different models.) Hard to tell which is thicker, since the Dynafit pincer has a base that obscures much of the wing. (Ditto for the pics of the next gen Radical.)

And to toot my own horn, I definitely feel justified in my restraint earlier:
http://www.wildsnow.com/3987/plum-guide-review-binding/
"Does that mean the Guide has enhanced durability? I can immediately identify some Dynafit failure modes that would seem to be addressed on the Guide, but only time will tell whether it has its own vulnerabilities, so at this point any speculation on durability is, yes, just speculation."

[Jonathan S.]

I did some compare/contrast just now of that area with the two most recent Dynafit generations. (That area for Dynafit is the same across different models.) Hard to tell which is thicker, since the Dynafit pincer has a base that obscures much of the wing. (Ditto for the pics of the next gen Radical.)

Whoops, I didn't look carefully enough! The styling is very similar, but the construction is very different starting in Fall 2009.

[GeezerSteve]

So how about getting some Dynafit Speed toe fixtures and keep the Plum heel fixtures? Dynafit Speed toes are available, sold in pairs for splitboarders.

Seems pretty beefy there, certainly no less so than some of the new Dynafit designs with the teardrop-shaped hole or the slot for Power Towers.

[original post edited] Just did a magnet test and confirmed that Speed/Comfort/ST/FT wings are some sort of steel -- looks like some sort of cast steel alloy. The Radical wings look to be made of similar stuff, and the lack of weight savings over the ST suggests that the Radical wings are cast steel alloy.

Are the Plum Guide wings Al alloy? If so, eyeball comparing "beefiness" of steel alloy vs. Al alloy is, of course, a meaningless exercise because steel alloy is much stronger and far less fatigue resistant for a given cross section.

[iscariot]

So aside from the immediate dangers of having a binding break while skiing, is this issue covered by warranty from Plum?

[thin cover]

^^^^^ marshal said he is sending a new toe today. This happened Friday so great turn around.

Big steve- I thought about that. But I prefer not to take any more chances in the tech world. Like I said they performed awesomely all winter. But I think I want a more damp binding for spring conditions anyway. I am fine with dividing the two, will give me a chance to use my dukes again I think I have to surrender at this point

[marshalolson]

for the record i am personally not warrantying the bindings, and am in no position to do so. i am sending a toe from my personal stash so you can keep skiing, we (TC, plum, myself) can sort out any replacement warranty stuff as plum is able to process it.

[auvgeek]

i am sending a toe from my personal stash so you can keep skiing, we (TC, plum, myself) can sort out any replacement warranty stuff as plum is able to process it.

This is why I love TGR. I lurk here for the most part, cuz I'm so busy, but it's super to cool to see people taking care of each other. Cheers, Marshal.

Obviously, I'm curious to hear about the cause of this problem with the Guides, particularly if it has occurred before...

[AweShuksan]

I'm sure that if the Plums stick around long enough they will work out and fix any design weaknesses. I'm just glad there are others out there willing to put them through the paces and expose any weaknesses. In the meantime, I'm glad I have a set of Vert. ST's which have performed flawlessly all season (mostly inbounds) and another set ready for the next boards I find. We are fortunate to live in a time of plenty.

[thin cover]

for the record i am personally not warrantying the bindings, and am in no position to do so. i am sending a toe from my personal stash so you can keep skiing, we (TC, plum, myself) can sort out any replacement warranty stuff as plum is able to process it.

I cannot say enough about how cool marshal has been on every transaction I have had with him and there have been many. I had assumed that you spoke with plum. Thanks for this generosity. Plum emailed us both back this morning and indicated that they would replace the binding and are extremely concerned with this and want to investigate right away. So I am sending the toe piece to them.

here are some more detailed photos. No one got hurt, still skiing, all is good.




vtfree- no more tech binders, do not worry. I actually want to ski the entire line next time as opposed to the last two time where I careened down on my ass for most of it.

[Lani]

It's a crazy weak refrigerator magnet, but the Dynafit toes feel magnetic and the Plum toes do not. I am sad to see this. I've been railing on these bindings and now there will be a question mark in my head.

Glad you're all right.

[Jonathan S.]

It's a crazy weak refrigerator magnet, but the Dynafit toes feel magnetic and the Plum toes do not.

Right, the Dynafit wings are steel and the Plum wings are CNC'ed alu. (Pincers on both are of course steel.)
I don't think that by itself has any great meaning though -- I mean, something made out of steel can be weak, and something made out of alu can be strong. So many other factors involved...
Thus far we have one documented Plum "wing" failure plus another claim (with the only details being skier weight and skis). Certainly a limited number of failures, although also a limited number of bindings in North America. Would be interested in here of any reports from Europe.

[1000-oaks]

It's a crazy weak refrigerator magnet, but the Dynafit toes feel magnetic and the Plum toes do not.

That doesn't mean anything at all. Even though the Plums are milled from aluminum billets (and are considerably stronger than cast aluminum would be), there are plenty of stainless steels that aren't magnetic.