Thread: ski mount point and backseating?

if i'm leaning back more than i think i should on my Viciks, does that mean the skis should be mounted further back?


i'm in new race boots this year, which aren't as upright as i'd like, but not noticing any issues with other skis?

FYI me = tall and fat!

Sometimes I think this is the case. My motherships were plus 1 , then i went to a full boot sole size smaller, so now they ski at +1.5 ish.... sometimes I think if i had more ski in front of me, I could power into the ski more and not worry so much about balance.... but I would like to hear a more expert take on this.

It can be a tip dive issue if rocker is not significant enough for your um weight. Seems like a touring ski, so light and not so fat. I find the bigger fatter skis have less and less issues obviously. But you really have to stay over tips. Mounting forward may help, but usually only on groomers. Mounting a little back can help in powder. I would ski with palms up, poles parallel to ground and hands in front. Forces proper bend, flex and ski position. But really I think you need a bigger fatter ski.

Are the bindings the same as on the other skis that 'don't seem to be a problem'? Ramp angle on the binding can exacerbate too much forward lean in the boot. With the lower leg pushed forward by the boot (and indirectly the binding) you're left with dropping the hip back to get centred.

Originally Posted by L7

Are the bindings the same as on the other skis that 'don't seem to be a problem'? Ramp angle on the binding can exacerbate too much forward lean in the boot. With the lower leg pushed forward by the boot (and indirectly the binding) you're left with dropping the hip back to get centred.

My thoughts too.

I've got a pair of 186 Viciks with Dukes, and IMHO the factory mount point is good (but I'm skinny). I'd exhaust the other possibilities before re-mounting.

Originally Posted by whyturn

It can be a tip dive issue if rocker is not significant enough for your um weight. Seems like a touring ski, so light and not so fat. I find the bigger fatter skis have less and less issues obviously. But you really have to stay over tips. Mounting forward may help, but usually only on groomers. Mounting a little back can help in powder. I would ski with palms up, poles parallel to ground and hands in front. Forces proper bend, flex and ski position. But really I think you need a bigger fatter ski.

Could expand on "palms up" I am on wailer 112's w/ plenty rocker mounted at +1 and still get backseated in steep trees... keeping hands almost touching too. Working hard on keeping my shit forward and driving the tips from the shin... 6'2" 210lbs...

it's not a tip dive issue, or i don't think it is, i'm actually pretty happy with thier pow performance.


bindings are all the same fks. only thing deferent this year (besides boots) is a good thing, and that's that i've spent allmost every day on my bigger rockered Ceist and Desists.


blasting hard pack groomers, or hard pack steeps and bumps, it seems like i've got to get way in the backseat to get them to do what i want.

have you detuned the tails? If they're sharp, they'll be hard to slide out when you want them out of the way.

the tails and tips are detuned some. maybe i need to do some more?

Originally Posted by capulin overdrive

if i'm leaning back more than i think i should...

...it seems like i've got to get way in the backseat to get them to do what i want.

You're using uncertain words like "think" and "seems". In many cases, backseating is just a mental thing and is completely unjustified. The first thing you should do is go skiing for a day and force yourself not to ski in the backseat ever, and then evaluate the ski with that balanced stance. Force yourself to keep doing it until you either (1) get accustomed to it and end up liking the ski at the current mount position, or (2) go over the bars multiple times and/or confirm with certainty that you dislike the ski's performance with your balanced stance at that mount position. (Obviously, make sure you don't do this experiment on double stagers, no fall zones, etc.)

If you go through that exercise, then you can use phrases like "I know" and "I am certain".

And yes, if it turns out you do go over the bars or feel like there is not enough tip in front of you, then either remount back or get a different ski (or get longer length of same model).

.

Sounds like you aren't finding the sweet spot. My experience with rocker/camber/rocker skis is that they respond best when I ski them as though the tip ends at the camber. Over-driving them seems to make them crazy.

I have not skied the vicik however.

Originally Posted by Crampedon

I am on wailer 112's w/ plenty rocker mounted at +1 and still get backseated in steep trees... keeping hands almost touching too. Working hard on keeping my shit forward and driving the tips from the shin... 6'2" 210lbs...

That's a negatory there Mr. Crampedon. Unless you have fairly soft boots the act of "driving" your shins forward can actually put you further in the back seat. Instead try pulling your feet back under your hips and/or thinking about closing the ankle joint and opening the knee joint a bit. Give it a shot - hope it works out for you.

Okay Wild4, I'll do that today.

Boot fitter just jacked up my heels a bit more and ground out my ankle pocket, seems better, but told me I have terrible Dorsal flex, can't close that gap so well. That is why to I have been thinking about pushing the tips with my shin... seems to help.

Originally Posted by Wild4umlauts

That's a negatory there Mr. Crampedon. Unless you have fairly soft boots the act of "driving" your shins forward can actually put you further in the back seat. Instead try pulling your feet back under your hips and/or thinking about closing the ankle joint and opening the knee joint a bit. Give it a shot - hope it works out for you.

That's good advice. I'd add, try to think about your toes too (if you can). When you get in the backseat, it's common to clench your toes like you're trying to hang on with your feet. When you're balanced, it should be easy to lift your toes inside your boots.

Nice...I knew I could relink www.tetongravity.com to epicski. Assimilation complete.

Work on increasing your dorsal flex. Even over the off season doing regular exercises to increase this and see if this can improve.

I got demos bindings on my 2 alpine setups so I can easily move boot center in < a minute , I have tried moving them but I come back to boot center

My rockered JJ's 1 inch back from center would still dive if I fucked up and they didnt feel as turny pivoty in any situation ... I put em back at center

MY verdicts which are a more trad ski set back 1" did feel a little less likely to dive but slower to respond ,1 inch forward on groomer didnt feel as good as center ... I leave them at center

IMO work on your skiing style instead of looking for equipment alteration to fix a problem

I too have limited dorsiflexion. I have transitioned from a lange boot to a kryp pro which I keep fully upright, and have a 1/4" heel lift as prescribed by boot fitter, for whatever reason, this seems to make the most of my limited dorsiflexion. Seems to have helped quite a bit, but it also may just be in my head. I will say that when I go from my rossi pro race 140s to my dukes, the dukes make me feel a little backseaty....my .02... but this thread is solid.

thanks guys.

after re-reading this stuff a few times, i think i'm gonna try and detune the tails a little farther. for sure on the steep bumpy stuff, i'm back there trying to get the tails around.

hell, maybe detuning the tips more would let me stand up more and drive the tips on groomers?

right now the tips and tails are only detuned on the rockered part and slight upturned tail, the parts that would be above the snow on boiler plate.

It's a 105 waisted ski, pretty narrow for pow imo. It also only comes in 186 length max and is a twin, of course it's gonna dive in any mount location.

they aren't diving!

i'm 6'5" and 300 pounds and took them in the trees 2nd after a foot dump and 2 or 3 feet for the prior week, and got along fine other than jump turning instead a surfy turn of a full rocket.

my issues are on not so great snow on steeper stuff. peel, banana, twister, joker, international, etc.

Didn't read the whole thread, so I may be repeating someone, but that is a pretty small ski for you. Have you tried something longer/fatter? (that's what she said?).

Also, you mentioned the forward lean of your boots, which could definitely be contributing. I was getting in the backseat sometimes (I have Salomon Impact 10's) and after toying with the canting quite a bit, I find that all the way back (the most upright position) greatly improves my ability to aggressively engage the tips.

I was playing poker while I wrote this so sorry if it's incoherent.

Originally Posted by bptempleton

I find that all the way back (the most upright position) greatly improves my ability to aggressively engage the tips.

I have had exactly the opposite experience, so this appears to be largely individiual. It is worth toying with though, maks a huge difference IMO.

What exactly are they not doing on groomers/steeps/bumps that you want them to do? Since tip dive isn't the issue, are they washing out? No tail pop? Not finishing turns? Not releasing from a turn? A little more specificity on what you WANT them to do may help.

That said, agressive forward lean in a boot + long lower leg shaft + large calf = balance problems. My dartboard guess is that you have a balance issue that begins in your boots, whether exacerbated by technique or not. See the WTF is wrong with my boots thread for balance exercises and other tips to gauge and adjust your stance in the boot. Some boots are not easily adjusted with respect to forward lean, but there are some things that can be done. Heating the rear spine of the boot and bending it back, lift under the toe, etc. Also, important to make sure you have proper underfoot support and to make sure your heels have the right amount of lift under them (From a lot to none at all, depending on the outcome of those exercises).

Mounting a little bit back will keep those tips from diving so much, but I'd say a bigger ski is really what you need to solve your problem.