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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Treviso, Italia
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    200

    I am probably not supposed to use Dynafits on the groomers

    I have bought these Dynafits in November and used them exactly 12 times. Due to the severe lack of snow here in the Dolomites this winter, I used my Dynafit-equipped brand new Wailers 112 mostly on the groomers. I am an intermediate skier, which means I ski pretty slow and can huck max 50 cm (maybe one meter on a good day). I used the Wailers on the groomers because they are super fun. I had previously problems of these bindings prereleasing (and me tumbling down badly). I took them back to the shop, have them checked, everything seemed ok. Today I was skiing, first run of the day on an immaculate piste and here we go, I crashed hard again. Put back the ski, take some slow turns, crash again, the ski kept being pre-released. Tried again, this time it seemed there was no problem. Skied a full run and then another and then I crashed again. Eventually I realized the binding was broken. Materials can have defects of course, but if that happened while skiing a steep colouir, well, that might be a (serious) problem. I have another pair of Wailers with Dynafits and I haven't had any issue at all (used the skis probably 50/60 days).

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    No it is not good with dynafit bindings on wider skis on groomers.. especially if you weigh more than 75 kg.90 % of the lateral forces are transmitted through the toepiece on dynafits because the heelpins sits so centered in the boots. Pulled out toepieces during groomer skiing is not uncommon. Your failure is not as common I think, the mounting usually gives before the binding breaks.

    Dynafit should give you a new toepiece though.

    If I were you I would do like this and mount Dukes when doing inbounds skiing:

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ese-Experiment

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Treviso, Italia
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    Nordic, yes, probably I am going to use the binding freedom threaded inserts or the dynadukes and swap bindings, still I am little puzzled that 12 days of super mellow skiing on groomers (I am a super jong, I ski super mellow) killed the bindings.

  4. #4
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    Mar 2008
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    I agree, they shouldn't break like this if you were only doing mellow skiing. Have you contacted Dynafit/the shop you bought these yet? they should send you a new toepiece free of cost.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Treviso, Italia
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    this happened today (i had to go back home..grrrrr), I sent a mail to the shop with this same pic I posted here. I'll send the pic to Dynafit as well (whose boot factory is I would say 30 kms from my home). I am not worried about them not replacing the piece, I am quite worried that this might happen with the other ski and with the other Dynafits I have (mounted on Wailer 105/188). The bindings should cater to the more aggressive skier of the Dynafit spectrum but...I am sure it's just a problem of defective materials but still that broken toepiece leaves me a little worried.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    here and there
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    18,558
    Maybe Dfit had a batch of bad stampings, reason for the new design?

    Kind of a conundrum since so many, myself included, ski Dfits on and off piste and have encountered no problems.
    watch out for snakes

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Aspen, Colorado
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    2,645
    I had FT12s on BD Voodoos for three seasons. They were my light setup for going fast and for uphill fitness on the resort. I weigh 225-230 and had no problems. I just put the binders on Lhasas and hope there will be no problems. I personally think Dynafit should have had a wider piece of metal where the mounting holes are. There is barely any metal to either side of the mounting holes. It is kind of like the perforated line on a piece of notebook paper. You know where it is going to tear.

  8. #8
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    Feb 2009
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    Comparing your picture to my Comforts. Assuming the screw heads are the same size in both bindings, it appears that there is about 50% less metal around the screw hole in your toe piece than in the Comforts. Someone should measure.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    South Lake Tahoe
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    3,612
    I think another European skier had the same identical problem with his Dyna Ft12s, but he was much more aggressive and skiing with his toes locked. In his case, it was blamed on him skiing with his toes locked, as well as the narrower plastic mounting plate (compared to the ST's or Comforts) of the FT12s. see wildsnow below:

    http://www.wildsnow.com/4371/dynafit-breakage-ft-to/

    Le Dog, did you ski with your toes locked after all your prerelease issues?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Treviso, Italia
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    200
    harpo, absolutely not. I did not lock the toe. just tried to ski as light as i could (that did not help)

  11. #11
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    Nov 2009
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    Treviso, Italia
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    harpo, to be absolutely precise, I might have skied one or two days (don't remember exactly) at the beginning of the season with the toes locked. I locked the toes in those two occasions because i already had pre-releasing issues at the time. I then went to the shop and the guys suggested me to click the front piece first, lift the ski and let it swing up and down a few times to clean the fittings from possible snow. so I did and had no more issues till today.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    sfbay
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    2,179
    I have a new theory as to why this might be happening!

    Recall that for some stupid reason, Dynafit manufactures the plastic baseplates under the bindings with undersized holes in the plastic? Well, I've noticed that if you don't drill that out to a clearance hole for the screws, it is easy to not have enough tightening force on the screws.

    If the screws aren't in tight enough, that plate will be flexing with every turn and really exacerbate the fatigue/cracking.

    <edited to add> especially for techs who use a preset driver for torquing the screws. I've found they have to installed tighter than most binding screws.

  13. #13
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    Agree that the useless threads molded into the plastic base plate are likely the cause of loosely mounted and prone to pull out toe issues. Here I see a combo of a weaker (relative to Comfort) toe wing at the screw hole and a more unsupported design. Hence the Power Plate band-aid.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    'bangin' your girlfriend
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    801
    I meet a ton of full time guides that are on Dynafits (mostly Speeds, Comforts, ST's) and they have a ridiculous number of days on them, often ski them aggressively. One fellow I met a few weeks ago has been using an ST/BD Justice as his daily driver (including resorts) since the beginning of last season with no problems.

    Is this an FT problem? I don't see many of them, so I haven't met many owners.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Aspen, Colorado
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    I think the threads in the plastic are there to minimize wobble when the screws are tightened down. The top of the screw under the head is unthreaded and fits snuggly in the threaded plastic. The problem is that if you are a half thread rotation off, non-attentive binding mounters will not notice that the metal part of the binding is tight to the plastic, which needs to be tight to the ski. That thread rotation will hold the binding off the ski. The easy solution is to drill out the plastic, which I also do. The binding installer needs to be on top of it if they do not drill out the plastic. I think Dynafit was aware of screw slop in the plastic when they designed in the threaded holes in the toes but not in the heels.

    If you thread all the screws though the threaded plastic, you can place the binding and all the screws on your drilled and tapped ski. You will notice that you can spin the screws freely once they are all the way into the plastic. Then you carefully turn each screw a little until the whole assembly is tight to the ski. It is more time consuming, but it results in a stronger mount in my opinion than drilling out the plastic

    If you do not tap your non metal skis, at least run a screw into each hole and back it out before dropping the whole binding complete with screws onto the ski. Make sure all the screws are all the way into the binding or you can get a thread pitch gap between you ski and binding which you can only get rid of by stripping one or the other out
    Last edited by Jethro; 02-27-2011 at 05:24 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by johngenx View Post
    Is this an FT problem? I don't see many of them, so I haven't met many owners.
    If you look at the 3 models, Comfort, ST and FT, the Comfort and ST share the same toe plate design. The FT has a different design where the toe wings have a much larger portion of the wings being unsupported. If I owned FT's (I don't) and skied hard (I don't) I would buy the Power Tower or fabricate a shim to add under the wings.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Treviso, Italia
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    Is this an FT problem? I don't see many of them, so I haven't met many owners.[/QUOTE]

    the shop where I bought these bindings answered to the mail I sent yesterday and told me that in ten years of selling Dynafits this is the first time they see a broken toepiece. They mostly sell regular Dynafits, not the FT, so I presume it's an issue of the latter. I wanted to change bindings on my Lhasa (from Diamir to the new FT) because I really like the feeling that the Dynafits offer but I might probably want to linger a bit just to make sure that fat skis and FT can really be good friends (they should, my other Wailers have Dynafits FT as well and they are just perfect).

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    retired
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    my guess is bad cast, not an inharient design flaw. those bindings have been put through the paces way way harder than you are describing by thousands and thousands of people with no to minimal failure. 1-2% warranty rate on a product is a GOAL for manufactoring. nothing is 0% warranty proof.

    but if you are concerned, both the new dynafit radical 12 and the plum guide bindings are beefed up in the place. in the plum's case, far far beefed up, yet still 250g lighter.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Treviso, Italia
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    I think too that's a material issue also because my other pair is working flawlessly. i might consider the Plum (if you say they are stronger)

  20. #20
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    well, i cannot say that i have tested both to the point of failure in a wide selection of bindings from numerous batches.

    but i can say that a cnc'd block of solid aluminum is far less likely to have a materials issue than a stamped component.

    i can also say the plum toe skis noticably stiffer and more positive.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Let 'er buck.
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    867
    hmmm, interesting thoughts with the plastic plate inhibiting good screw seating. OP, I couldn't help but think reading this- your skiing may be mellow, but your crashing doesn't sound mellow. Maybe possible you wiped out once with toes locked, and that stressed the metal? This definitely makes me more wary of skiing my Dynafits at the resort though, although I have had no problems yet.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    T-town, CO. USA
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    I have seen this same failure (once) before. It is due to a poorly designed (trimmed down) baseplate on the carbon model I think. Other Dynafit models seem to be fine.
    They redesigned it for next year I hear, so I'm sure they know it's an issue.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
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    13,243
    I always figured it was stamped from some sort of steel alloy plate stock, not cast. I'll join the others who theorize that a loose screw contributed to this. A loose screw introduces the opportunity of rocking, resultant work hardening, embrittlement, cracking and failure. The FT plate overhang adds to the problem.

    ETA: I've replaced my FT plates with Comfort plates.
    Last edited by Big Steve; 02-28-2011 at 11:53 AM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Treviso, Italia
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    200
    Quote Originally Posted by hiplainsdrifter View Post
    hmmm, interesting thoughts with the plastic plate inhibiting good screw seating. OP, I couldn't help but think reading this- your skiing may be mellow, but your crashing doesn't sound mellow. Maybe possible you wiped out once with toes locked, and that stressed the metal? This definitely makes me more wary of skiing my Dynafits at the resort though, although I have had no problems yet.
    I did crash a few times when the bindings pre-released (and was always lucky not to kill myself) but I don't remember of crashing with toes locked. whatever the case, these bindings have been used for 12 days so I think that they must be defective (or mounted poorly as other suggested, but the shop where i bought them is quite Dynafit oriented and has been dealing with Dynafit for 10 years)

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    774
    Seems to be the exact same problem Lou is talking about here:
    http://www.wildsnow.com/4371/dynafit-breakage-ft-to/
    "Wherever beer is brewed, all is well. Whenever Beer is drunk, life is good" -- Czech proverb.

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