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02-25-2011, 12:34 PM #1
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Has everyone lost their fucking minds?
Or are they really this fucking retarded?
EVERYONE; left, right, sheep fucking transcendentalists, etc. in this country rails constantly against job outsourcing. EVERYONE is frustrated that countries like China, India, and almost every European nation is destroying the USA's youth in almost every subject area. I was talking to a Boeing engineer the other day who told me that he lives in different cities in India for FOUR MONTHS A YEAR just trying to recruit Indian engineers to come to Seattle to work for Boeing because they cannot find enough people to fill their ranks in the US. I've heard similar stories from many other industries.
And the fucking solution we as a nation have managed to come up with is to slash education budgets massively? From kindergarten straight through to PhD programs, everything is getting cut. And now we're going after teacher salaries and benefits?! What in the fuck is wrong with everyone? Are they incapable of recognizing cause and effect patterns? Do they not understand that a lack of education is what is creating these scenarios they bemoan all day long? How in the fuck does this help ANYTHING?
Has the moronic 24 hour news cycle which paints EVERY SINGLE ISSUE in this country as black and white really managed to blind people this badly? I don't get it. I really don't.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...edcuts25m.htmlFewer Washington state students would be admitted to the state's universities, and more high-paying out-of-state students would be accepted. Hundreds of faculty and staff jobs would be cut, and the time it takes to get a four-year degree would grow by several semesters or more, in effect raising the cost of going to college.
That's the grim scenario painted by the presidents of Washington's three largest universities as they outlined the impact of the latest, most severe cutbacks proposed in higher education in letters to the Legislature this week.
Legislators have asked university and college presidents to sketch out the impact if the state has to cut higher education by $180 million more than the $600 million the governor has already proposed for the next two years. The bigger cuts could be necessary if there's another large drop in projected tax collections in next month's revenue forecast, as some legislators fear.
Both state Reps. Larry Seaquist and Reuven Carlyle, of the House higher education committee, described the analysis as an exercise to help legislators understand what would be lost if the budget was cut this severely. But "the numbers are profoundly serious," Carlyle said. "Within higher ed, we have a particularly difficult scenario."
In one of the most strongly worded letters, Western Washington University President Bruce Shepard called the proposals "unconscionable" and "untenable."
"These budget proposals ... will undo decades of strategic investment by the people of this state, and take just as long to restore and repair the damage done to quality and access," he wrote.
"Times are tough, but please know — without state funding and strategic solutions — everything is at risk," wrote Phyllis Wise, interim president of the University of Washington.
And from Washington State University President Elson Floyd: "Reductions of the proposed level threaten to unravel the fundamental quality of and access to higher education, which has driven the state's economy for decades."
Two ways
As requested, the universities looked at the cutbacks in two ways: They listed what they would eliminate if Gov. Chris Gregoire's proposed two-year, $600 million cutback in higher education went into effect, and what would happen if schools had to cut an additional 15 percent and 30 percent on top of that.
Gregoire has said that her $600 million cutback represents a 4 percent cut in state funding, after backfilling with tuition increases. But Mike Reilly, executive director of the state's Council of Presidents, says her cut is more likely to mean a decrease of 5.8 percent to 7.5 percent in state support because it's unrealistic to raise tuition across-the-board on degrees that already charge a high tuition, such as some graduate programs.
Separately, in the Legislature's request, the schools were asked how much tuition would need to rise if the schools were to fully make up those cutbacks with tuition increases.
For the UW, WSU and WWU, the answer is a 20 to 30 percent hike in tuition, according to the schools' projections.
But there is little likelihood tuition would increase by that amount, said UW Vice Provost Paul Jenny, of the school's planning and budgeting office.
The presidents' letters
The state is expected to raise tuition to cover some of the lost money — Gregoire has proposed tuition increases of 9 to 11 percent — but making up 100 percent of the cutbacks with tuition is not a realistic alternative, he said.
Still, the presidents' letters give a sense of the types of cuts being contemplated:
• The UW, which has already frozen in-state admission to 4,000 freshmen a year, could begin rolling back the size of the in-state class by as many as 500 students a year under the worst-case scenario, Jenny said. At the UW, out-of-state residents pay nearly three times as much as in-state students in tuition and fees.
• WWU is planning to cut in-state admission even if the school's tuition is increased by 11 percent a year in 2011 and 2012. Shepard proposed decreasing in-state enrollment by as many as 670 undergraduates in 2011, and by as many as 2,627 over the course of the biennium if the budget is cut more aggressively. (WSU is not planning to cut in-state student enrollment.)
• The UW projects it would cut 1,000 university jobs under the governor's budget proposal, and as many as 1,500 jobs under the most aggressive budget-cutting scenario. WSU projects it would cut 550 to 750 jobs, and WWU projects cutting 59 to 92 jobs.
• All three universities predicted that the time it takes to graduate would lengthen, as classes are cut back and students scramble to try to fill slots in their schedules. WWU projected the largest increase in the amount of time it would take to graduate — from today's average of 4.6 years to an average of 5.7 years if the governor's proposed cuts are made, and up to 6.9 years if the most aggressive cuts are made.
• The schools would eliminate some of the less-popular degree programs and reduce enrollments in other programs. The UW, for example, is considering eliminating the College of Education's foreign-language certification program for teachers, and the School of Public Health's Institute for Public Health Genetics. WWU would reduce enrollments in its Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) program to prepare science and math teachers. "The required program eliminations would be devastating," Shepard wrote.
• The cuts could have a broader impact on the state's economy. Wise said that for every dollar of state taxpayer support, the UW returns $22 in impact to the Washington economy and generates $1.50 in state and local tax revenue. "Given the magnitude of proposed budget reductions to the UW, the state would experience an immediate loss of economic impact in the billions and direct reductions in state and local tax revenue," she wrote.
• The UW is also considering some cuts to services it provides to the community, such as reducing or eliminating the work it does to maintain the trees in the Washington Park Arboretum, which are owned by the UW; significantly reducing support for the Pacific Northwest Seismic Network; and eliminating funding for the state climatologist.I thought their offices would be strewn with bunny-fucking and condom dispensers, a veritable enchanted forest of cock shafts and twat mist. - JoeStrummer
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02-25-2011, 12:40 PM #2
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To answer your question.
Yes. Left/Right/Other have all lost our collective minds and are now fighting with each other while our country goes down the shitter.
Originally Posted by iceman
Half the Public believes in Creationism. Fuck the Public on scientific matters.
Originally Posted by ilikecandy
As for you constantly posting bullshit and failing to back it up, you have nobody to apologize to but your integrity
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02-25-2011, 12:48 PM #3
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I blame Faux News...seriously.
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02-25-2011, 12:49 PM #4
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I honestly believe this is the answer. I have no clue how the hell people can be politicizing education budgets, teacher salaries, etc. Especially when the same fucking people talk up and down about how awful outsourcing and the lack education kids are getting. It is absolutely ludicrous. Originally Posted by Bunion
I'm not even sure I'm mad anymore, I'm just standing on the sidelines with my mouth agape watching this shit play out in complete disbelief.I thought their offices would be strewn with bunny-fucking and condom dispensers, a veritable enchanted forest of cock shafts and twat mist. - JoeStrummer
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02-25-2011, 12:55 PM #5
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They are simply not capable of achieving this single handedly. Originally Posted by Grape_Ape
I thought their offices would be strewn with bunny-fucking and condom dispensers, a veritable enchanted forest of cock shafts and twat mist. - JoeStrummer
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02-25-2011, 12:58 PM #6
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Teachers deserve fair pay. Their job is ultra important. But increasing pay does not equal better teachers and the same problems that companies like GM face with regard to pensions is happen in the public sector. It dragged GM down and it's dragging our state and federal budgets down too. Convert pensions into 401K's, give the teachers a small bump in take home and we're all good.
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02-25-2011, 01:00 PM #7
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Originally Posted by belgian
people have been ripping teachers for earning too much for longer than i've been alive. i have family members who were teachers and i went through 2 teachers' strikes in the late 70s early 80s. it was every bit as nasty then as it is now, with the exception of mass media/internet/organized rightwinger talking points being screamed out of every idiot's mouth.
everybody is a "we" in the u.s. until they realize they aren't and never were. they're just along to help fund other peoples' intentions until they can't any longer and then they're jettisoned like all the rest before them. natives and slaves figured it out earlier than the average american idiot for obvious reasons. modern day americans have such a limited attention span, a limited global awareness and infinite distractions that feed the know-it-all ego and hate that they're just sheep waiting for slaughter. the slaughter they cheered and paid for when it was some poverty stricken, war engulfed brown skinned person in another land."We sit together, the mountain and I, until only the mountain remains." -Li Po
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02-25-2011, 01:01 PM #8
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YEAH.......Pensions are the reason for this big mess. If you think that the reason GM went down the tubes is because of Pensions, you need to turn off your Rush/Hannity/Beck ears. Originally Posted by huckbucket
Have any original thoughts, or just talking points?Music: http://soundcloud.com/powtron
"You should have been here yesterday...", said everyone I know.
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02-25-2011, 01:05 PM #9
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Originally Posted by PowTron
My bad ... pensions and health care costs. $1600 per vehicle in retiree health care and pension costs. That's probably $1000/car that can't be spent on product development.
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02-25-2011, 01:07 PM #10
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I don't even really give a shit about the teacher pay/pension deal, except to note that while some teachers out in the burbs do have a pretty sweet deal, most get paid shit to do a job where they get zero respect from their students, from the parents and from their administrations. Most only get any amount of respect from the public for doing an important and difficult job, but now they've even lost their public respect because some teachers have a nice benefit package because socialism or something like that.
Mostly though, I'm in disbelief about the budget cuts for schools, esp. Higher ed. Budget cuts will only worsen the problems this country is currently facing, and no one seems to think about that. They just fucking sit there and regurgitate the bullshit that the rich ass TV/radio personalities, politicians and corporate slave owning CEOs say without thinking.Last edited by belgian; 02-25-2011 at 01:18 PM.
I thought their offices would be strewn with bunny-fucking and condom dispensers, a veritable enchanted forest of cock shafts and twat mist. - JoeStrummer
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02-25-2011, 01:15 PM #11
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It's just what the Kochheads of the world want. You really think they want to limit the applicant pool to USA only? Keep a lid on them private sector jobs salaries.
Silent....but shredly.
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02-25-2011, 01:17 PM #12
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It's obviously a complicated situation. My guess is that legislators are looking at our past efforts to improve educational performance and are now retrenching (and retracting cash) based on the fact that what we're doing isn't working. Rather than try something new (and throw money at something else), they're using it as an opportunity to reduce their already inflated budgets. It's like sticking your finger in a leaking dam. No amount of money is gonna fix the problems inherent in our social fabric that is undermining the ability of educators to do their job. I blame 5th avenue and the deviously effective marketing programs out there that are convincing our kids that no one needs to sacrifice, no one needs to work hard, and everyone of matter is beautiful. It's fuckin' ghay. Originally Posted by belgian
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02-25-2011, 01:23 PM #13
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Sounds like a fairly simple "you reap what you sow" situation regarding the attitudes toward education and science in the USA.
Who sowed this?
Originally Posted by Socialist
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02-25-2011, 01:25 PM #14gunit130 Guest
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02-25-2011, 01:29 PM #15
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So decreasing university enrollment, laying off educators and increasing class sizes, eliminating educational programs, increasing tuition, decreasing funding for equipment, etc etc etc. will improve education because education is so fucked that it cannot be fixed so the best solution is to glass-parking-lot the whole system and make it accessible only to the rich while outsourcing not only continues but increases? Originally Posted by huckbucket
I thought their offices would be strewn with bunny-fucking and condom dispensers, a veritable enchanted forest of cock shafts and twat mist. - JoeStrummer
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02-25-2011, 01:30 PM #16
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... and here's proof that it has less to do with infrastructure and more to do with culture. I taught a graduate level immunology class last night at my local university. 90% of the students were either Indian or Chinese. Once here, foreigners have access to all of the same resources as Americans, yet Americans choose not pursue careers in math and science. I don't know why, but I would guess that it has to do with perceived future earnings and cache. Why be a Ph.D. when you can be an MD and get paid more? Why be an actuary when you can be an accountant and maybe a CFO someday?
The tools are there or you wouldn't see the influx of foreign students.
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02-25-2011, 01:32 PM #17gunit130 Guest
Seriously. I don't think there is much we can do at this point.
The war has been won. Stupid people are breeding faster than smart people and there is no way the smart people are going to be able to catch up. The only way will be some type of disease that only affects dumbasses.
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02-25-2011, 01:33 PM #18
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Shit dude ... I don't have the answers ... and stripping the system certainly ain't gonna help, but student to teacher ratios of 1:1 won't fix the problems that we have in many of our schools. You can't just throw money at it. Originally Posted by belgian
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02-25-2011, 01:41 PM #19
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Obesity? Quick! We need to get the Biggest Loser off the air ASAP. Originally Posted by gunit130
huckbucket - I agree with you, and I clearly don't have the solutions either. I'm just 100% certain that what is going on right now is not going to improve things one bit.I thought their offices would be strewn with bunny-fucking and condom dispensers, a veritable enchanted forest of cock shafts and twat mist. - JoeStrummer
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02-25-2011, 02:19 PM #20
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RIGHT! I'm sure INDIA out spends the HELL out of us on education!!! Originally Posted by belgian
You fuckin' dummy. Money has NOTHING to do with it. Our system is broken because our unionized schools and government entitelment mentality broke it.I've been to two state fairs and a goat fuck and never seen anything like this!!
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02-25-2011, 02:25 PM #21
?
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George Carlin summed it up pretty good with "They don't give a fuck about you!"
This is just the ongoing attack on the middle class. And yes, everyone has lost their fucking minds.
Yeah! Yeah! Slash discretionary spending! But god forbid anyone look at the moderate solution to SS, no, lets privatize the fucker. Really? WTF? Slash teacher pay, because taking away the incentive for the highly educated smart people to train our students is really a great move.
You know what other education systems do that succeed? They recruit the best and brightest to be teachers.
I think the real issue is that the majority of moderate people have allowed the conversation to be hijacked by not really participating in the system. We just stand on the sidelines mouths agape.
Belgian- I don't know about you, but the last 2-3 years has really made me think hard about traveling the world looking for a country that doesn't have polarized politics like the US and overall is more moderate (less political swing).
There is tons of opportunity here, but sometimes it seems like maybe the quality of life would be better even with higher taxes/lower pay."These are crazy times Mr Hatter, crazy times. Crazy like Buddha! Muwahaha!"
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02-25-2011, 02:40 PM #22
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I'm right there with you, politics have taken over the US both in public discourse and everyday life and it is very frustrating. I'm not sure what I'd do once I got there but I am constantly thinking about moving back to Europe. Originally Posted by char
I thought their offices would be strewn with bunny-fucking and condom dispensers, a veritable enchanted forest of cock shafts and twat mist. - JoeStrummer
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02-25-2011, 02:47 PM #23
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Some guy goes to a 2nd world country that spends a fraction per student that the US does because he can't find qualified people in the US. And your answer is to spend even more on educating our over pampered kids. It seems to me that cutting spending might be the only way to correct the problem. Get back to the basics and stop the coddling. Originally Posted by belgian
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02-25-2011, 02:51 PM #24
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This is not entirely inaccurate in my opinion, and is confirmed by friends that work in the K-12 system. Higher Ed is another story. But like everything DBT spouts, it is black and white, and the world just isn't really that way. Originally Posted by Downbound Train
One of the real issues here is that "American" (read white and black) kids don't see hard work and studying as the sexy thing to do or what they want to do with their lives. They would rather be rock stars, pro athletes, rappers, or chefs or something else they say on TV. Years of affluence without seeing the spark and hard work that made it happen will do that.
Interest in hard sciences died on the 7th space shuttle launch. Internet came along and the juices got flowing again, but it was all about get rich quick ideas.
Engineering is hard. Watched many of my classmates opt out for other majors, business being probably the biggest draw. Dad just wanted them to make something of themselves. They didn’t really want to know how things worked or how to design things.
But yes slicing education budgets across the board is insane. Revisiting compensation and retention policies makes sense. The new brand of small government conservative is well supported by a large number of the disenchanted working class that has always resented education because it brings back bad memories.
DBT what was your GPA in high school??? Did you play sports?
I think my signature is appropriate here. First part was a jest from a friend I respect tremendously. Second part is DBT…Education must be the answer, we've tried ignorance and it doesn't work! Wait, nevermind, when you see a liberal using science to advance an idea...grab your wallet and your freedom and run.
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02-25-2011, 03:02 PM #25gunit130 Guest
sadly, a lot of the smart people i'm talking about are the obese ones.
diseases that might be able to slow-down the dumb people from breeding could be STD's, or something like that
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