Snow for the Euros.

[Rossymcg]

Roger that.
I'm just wondering how the fuck they ended up there.
As you say it all screamed "I'm going to get you if you ski me"
@bobinch was his son caught in the slide and survived?


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[subtle plague]

Roger that.
I'm just wondering how the fuck they ended up there.
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I'd be very interested in that Story.

Maybe we'll hear from the 20 year old Swiss in Hospital, but I doubt it. And it's not that much of a news Story like the 2018 haute Route disaster. So we won't get a Srf documentary.

The Tirolean avalanche Service does an accident description debrief. Slf doesn't. It's the only thing I miss on their site.

[Rossymcg]

in the interest of eduction it would be good if the SLF did.
Hoe did 20 y/o survive, did he/she get dug out without a beeper on?

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[subtle plague]

in the interest of eduction it would be good if the SLF did.
Hoe did 20 y/o survive, did he/she get dug out without a beeper on?

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2nd hand newspaper info: He was only partially buried. No info on beepers .... .

[Rossymcg]

2nd hand newspaper info: He was only partially buried. No info on beepers .... .

WOW, I wouldn't have thought any survivors over that rock band. Does the newspaper give any indication of his injuries?
which Deutsch skiing Forum you using?

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[bobinch]

If you ski THAT terrain as a conscious decision in a 4+, you're most definitely lacking in experience or have a death wish. No matter if some sherpas dragged you up some clogged high alpine Highway.

If you just ski into that without thinking about it or don't have Equipment ( hours buried) like some of the other victims, you don't have any experience and shouldnt be out there anyway.

As I said I don’t know the details of how they ended up there but I know he was an experienced Alpinist

[bobinch]

Roger that.
I'm just wondering how the fuck they ended up there.
As you say it all screamed "I'm going to get you if you ski me"
@bobinch was his son caught in the slide and survived?


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All I know is that they were both caught, the father died and the son survived. My wife is friends with the deceased man’s ex-wife / mother of the boy so she may find out more in time

[Rossymcg]

did you ever ski with him?


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[Djongo Unchained]

If I could post a fucking picture anymore...

I could point out the skiers entry point.

Pull up the video and stop it at the first coupla frames. I can see an entry way top lookers left where they came in. Looks like a fin that comes across from left to right and tracks begin above and then into/behind it. They come out onto the big bench, stand then move as it cracks but too late.

I'd posit that in the US, that big rollover between top station and main path would have craters all over it. Or just one. That thing can't need much to go.

Sliding in beneath that hanging snowfield is a remedial mistake that at least a dozen others skied first.

[nortonwhis]

^^Totally agree. But... In North America, if you see a bunch of untracked powder under the lift or close to it, you jump in. It's been bombed, it's been controlled, you really don't think twice, even in steep alpine terrain if it's "in bounds" and "opened" by ski patrol. I can totally see a 15 year old kid doing that if he's not familiar with skiing in Europe, if he and his parents haven't done due diligence and educated themselves on the differences between skiing in North American and skiing in the Alps. It would behoove IKON to put some words of warning/education on their website regarding this critical difference in how ski areas are managed. I just looked at their site and there's nothing. That said, it was really up to the kid's parents to understand this and educate their kid about high-danger conditions, and at the very least make sure they all had proper safety gear. I would guess kids in Europe are aware of these things from an early age, but it is very different in NA when it comes to resort skiing.

This is where my mind takes me as well. Lack of education on the differences of ski culture, and they paid the ultimate price. Shitty outcome for all involved.

From my NA perspective, I still am kind of unsure why its not controlled, I mean its a huge slope with huge potential, guessing the path doesn't hit any pistes, but if it is as Subtle described with 1.5m of fresh with hurricane force winds why not throw an extra bomb or two. Is it because guests then expect it to be bombed all the time?

edit: Just read a little more on Reddit and people are saying its in a "closed area" hence not controlled as it doesn't have potential to travel into pistes. Looked at the piste map. JFC that is so much terrain in that area, hopefully one day I can make it over there!

[Duffman]

https://snowbrains.com/skier-missing...-army-captain/

Looks like 4 dead total, one wasn't reported missing until later.
Djongo is right , you can see the entry up top lookers left near the left border of the initial slide , not as far left as where the sympathetic release starts from.
What I found more interesting , since this area is being considered an "off limits" wildlife refuge, isn't the tracks up to to where the people were swept away, but that there are a ton of tracks below that bench more lookers left that also get engulphed by the slide. Poor decision (which it certainly was) or not, it seems like this area gets a decent amount of traffic.

[Djongo Unchained]

^^^^Click on Duffman's link to the snowbrains article, scroll down towards the bottom to the related article about the 15 year old US citizen and click on it. The picture will show the fin I referred to and the actual access line. Pic is gnarly...

I'd show yas but no mofo pics gotdamit.

[Buster Highmen]

img tag still work

[telefreewasatch]

Wanted to post afore now.
Wasn't able on account of not being able to log in for the past year cept thru the upload link, that being down wasn't able to post at all.
Not too often we see real folks dying in real avalanches.
Fuck.
Sobering footage.
Vibes to all affected...

[Rossymcg]

that article throws even more questions. A couple of snowboarders from Canada, a brit with a Swiss passport and his lad(who appears to have survived) and a 15 yo American kid. Did they all meet on the lift and say something like "there's an area roped over there(wild life protected) fuck it let's go for it" its a strange combo of people ending up together.
Folks saying why wasn't that area bombed. It would be against the law to bomb a wild life protection zone.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...-illinois.html

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[subtle plague]

This is where my mind takes me as well. Lack of education on the differences of ski culture, and they paid the ultimate price. Shitty outcome for all involved.

From my NA perspective, I still am kind of unsure why its not controlled, I mean its a huge slope with huge potential, guessing the path doesn't hit any pistes, but if it is as Subtle described with 1.5m of fresh with hurricane force winds why not throw an extra bomb or two. Is it because guests then expect it to be bombed all the time?

edit: Just read a little more on Reddit and people are saying its in a "closed area" hence not controlled as it doesn't have potential to travel into pistes. Looked at the piste map. JFC that is so much terrain in that area, hopefully one day I can make it over there!

As I posted further up: it's a designated or recommended wild life area. Technically not finable by the state. The ski area may ( might...should be near impossible because of the kegal status. They could theoretically take your pass..but as i saidfurther up no one enforces yellow zones) sanction you because they say it is protected.

They can't bomb everything that's reachable from the pistes. If you zoom out here, you see why. You'd throw hundreds of bombs to secure everything that's reachable.

Red dot is the accident. Red zone wildlife protection yellow recommended. Zoom in on Zermatt.

https://map.geo.admin.ch/mobile.html...gNodes=532,653

[banzai]

CAIC reports are an invaluable source of knowledge imo. It would be good to have such reporting for accidents in the Alps.

You cant bomb everything in the Alps. You cant take away guns in the US. Use brain, enter at your own risk and have fun. We all die eventually.

[Charlie Don't Surf]

The year is 1998. French Ski Bro-brah Denis Rey, now retired from the world cup, is fined $250
for ducking a rope in Crested Butte while participating in the 2nd X-games Ski-Cross. He goes on to win the event besting Kent Kreitler and Chris Davenport.



Some choice quotes below, marking the differences in ski culture between the U.S. and Europe at the time, and within the context of the current conversation, illustrate how the sport and discourse has evolved over the past 25 years. Translation by me:

“For all these freeriders, the USA is a real problem. With the amount of beautiful snow that falls, there's no way to go off-piste, and constant policing sometimes turns into paranoia. Denis responds by skiing (powder) next to a lift, almost goes to jail and is fined 250 dollars.”

“It's true that when you come from France, there's no skiing to be done in the United States. You're not allowed to ski fast on the slopes, you're not allowed to go off piste, so there you go, you're not allowed to be off the pistes, you're not allowed to be on them.”

“No, it's really very, very annoying, because it's true that back home we're not used to this, we don't have this education, and when we see a field of powder under a chairlift or right next to it, well, if you're not the first to have skied it in europe, well, it's too late for you, whereas here, for a week we've been here, there's still not tracks below the chairlifts or behind the ropes. Besides the open runs, there's no tracks, and it's extremely annoying, and it's teasing us.”

Food for thought, because more and more skiers will be going trans-Atlantic. So watch out for that bar flying down and learn what a loaded slope looks like.

[bobinch]

that article throws even more questions. A couple of snowboarders from Canada, a brit with a Swiss passport and his lad(who appears to have survived) and a 15 yo American kid. Did they all meet on the lift and say something like "there's an area roped over there(wild life protected) fuck it let's go for it" its a strange combo of people ending up together.
Folks saying why wasn't that area bombed. It would be against the law to bomb a wild life protection zone.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...-illinois.html

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He was Swiss from Basel, not British. I have not skied with him but he had a very impressive record of Alpine achievements. It seems the son is fine (physically).

[Rossymcg]

He was Swiss from Basel, not British. I have not skied with him but he had a very impressive record of Alpine achievements. It seems the son is fine (physically).

News paper said he's a dual national. I'd have thought being from CH and recreating in the mountains they'd have been nowhere near that face. I'm wondering if the son was one of the 3 seen engulfed by the avi. News article also said 2 had beepers on. I'd guess the Canadian pair and the American boy didn't have on(inbound off piste mentality) and the CH pair had the beepers on.
I've not skied Zermatt is there much <30* terrain to ski when it's iffy?

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[bobinch]

News paper said he's a dual national. I'd have thought being from CH and recreating in the mountains they'd have been nowhere near that face. I'm wondering if the son was one of the 3 seen engulfed by the avi. News article also said 2 had beepers on. I'd guess the Canadian pair and the American boy didn't have on(inbound off piste mentality) and the CH pair had the beepers on.
I've not skied Zermatt is there much <30* terrain to ski when it's iffy?

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Maybe he had dual nationality from a parent but he definitely considered himself Swiss, was born here and lived most of his life here

[AKAnderson]

Finally. Great minds think alike

But do you know on what Basis they might be sued in the US? I tried to find info, but German sources are pretty vague. It's indicated in my German law articles i could find in between the lawyer ads on how to sue people that advertising Zermatt on ikon or a vague Business affiliation is enough.

Which would definitely be given here.

Edit: IT could get even more interesting if this happens in a fully us owned resort like andermatt.

Wow; I leave the message board for a few days and all hell breaks loose. On your question, re IKON and lawsuits, I suspect that if said plaintiff purchased the pass in the US from a US service provider, there could be enough substance in there to bring some sort of action naming Altera as a counter party. How and where it transpires from there would get wonky very quickly but I would guess that there is enough substance to that someone would consider a claim.

[Rossymcg]

even though they were skiing in an area that's marked as do not enter?

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[kathleenturneroverdrive]

why not throw an extra bomb or two. Is it because guests then expect it to be bombed all the time?

Does patrol where you live (or anywhere in America or Canada) occasionally toss bombs into the backcountry?

[Djongo Unchained]

We bomb inbounds closed areas all the time so that they don't release onto skiers below.

And that's not 100% safe as they occasionally let loose after a thump.

But plainly not the same rationales as in Euro. It's a different deal there and I'll take it as it is. I don't wanna change their scene anymore than I want them changing mine.