Thread: Marker Binding question (Duke, Baron, F12)

I like to go into the backcountry, as much as I can in NC, but I always have to hike and that's not much fun. So I'm getting some AT bindings that will work good in bounds since that's where most of my skiing is done, sadly. Could you guys tell me about the differences between the Duke, Baron and F12? I know the Duke has the higher din, but is that it? Are they all good for in bounds groomer skiing? They will be going on Prophet 100's. I'm 6'3" 215 if that matters. Thanks!

i saw ft 12 EXPLODE under a 175 pound skier on grooms , clipped ice? dont really
know , was 100 yards back , but no less than 6 pieces of plastic on the trail binding still on his foot.

i have been skiing f12's mostly inbounds so far this season and have been pretty pleased with them. downhill performance is very good. they were tested to be laterally stiffer than the duke and are lighter as well- if i am not mistaken on wildsnow.com but i cannot find the link right now. it has the same disadvantages as the duke but lighter and a nicer design at lower din. they are made of the same material as all of marker ("royal family") bindings which i dont love for a few reasons but for a do-all binding they are not bad. i am considerably lighter than you and ski the f12.

The Duke is for larger/more aggressive skiers that are doing short hikes/skins and primarily want performance going downhill.

The Baron is for lighter/less aggressive skiers doing short hikes/skins that primarily want performance going downhill.

The F10/12 is for skiers doing longer tours/skins and need light weight as much or more than they need downhill performance.

I have the dukes mounted on Watea 94's. they are my resort/short tour ski. I love the binding and it offers no compromise from a regular downhill mount. I'm 5'10 205. I also have dynafits for the longer tours though. I believe the barons have some composite parts, whereas there is more metal in the dukes?

So then at my size I should go with the Dukes over the Barons? It comes down to the Dukes vs the F12. Hmmmm....

Go with the Dukes if you are buying now; quite a few unresolved reliability issues currently with the F12's.

Originally Posted by gregL

Go with the Dukes if you are buying now; quite a few unresolved reliability issues currently with the F12's.

Funny, I just was reading about that with the F12's. The Dukes was my 1st choice originally, so that's what I'll go with. Of course they are the most expensive.

I've been skiing (mostly downhill) on the F12 quite a bit this year with zero problems. To me, they should work fine for both downhill and touring. I'm a couple of inches shorter and 25 lbs. lighter than you. I'm also very easy on my gear. I'd steer you towards the Duke due to your height and weight. I had Dukes but sold them because they were too heavy for my needs.

I think if I lived out west I would be more concerned with the weight, but here in NC the tours won't be nearly as long.

Do yourself a favor and invest in some AT boots. Hiking in alpine boots sucks.

Originally Posted by SpinalTap

Do yourself a favor and invest in some AT boots. Hiking in alpine boots sucks.

I am for sure. Just going to wait until this summer when I can get a better deal.

The FT12 is iffy at best. Do some research on TGR (FT12 failure) and you'll see photos of the front connection obliterated. Your a Clydesdale so I wouldn't even think twice about getting anything other than the Duke. Solid clamps that can take a beating. For side country laps, it's the most reliable that there is at this time.

Picked up a pair of 2009-10 F12s from local shop at cost...did some research, called Marker. Cust Service round about admitted they had some quality/reliability issues. End of the day - 3 year warranty (save breaking binding in the BC). That said, I cant decide which planks are going to get the F12s...

I'll piggyback on this thread for my question (this JONG used the search function!)..

How do the Dukes feel vs a traditional alpine binding? Was going to mount my new setup (Armada TSTs) w/ Jester Pros, but if they feel pretty much the same as the Dukes then I'd like to have the ability to skin into the slackcountry/sidecountry. I mostly ski at the 'Bird, Brighton, etc so I'd still be in bounds 80% of the time. Would I be sacrificing downhill performance by getting Dukes?

f12's are a joke, you guys who like them probably don't ski very hard. baron's are okay if you don't weigh much but really I'd sack up and go for the dukes, better performance touring and skiing.

I skied 50 plus days on the F12's and haven't had any issues other than a minor chip in the plastic housing. I weight 180, have them on 185 JJ's and they're super quick and nimble and there really hasn't been any issue. I have the din set at 10.5, so I haven't found them to be a joke. 90% has been inbound in all conditions.

Is there any difference between the F10 and F12 other than heavier springs?

Originally Posted by Ice_Coaster

I'll piggyback on this thread for my question (this JONG used the search function!)..

How do the Dukes feel vs a traditional alpine binding? Was going to mount my new setup (Armada TSTs) w/ Jester Pros, but if they feel pretty much the same as the Dukes then I'd like to have the ability to skin into the slackcountry/sidecountry. I mostly ski at the 'Bird, Brighton, etc so I'd still be in bounds 80% of the time. Would I be sacrificing downhill performance by getting Dukes?

Since nobody else answered your question, I'll give it a go. I'm no expert on this issue, as I only have a handful of days on the Dukes. The major differences, in my opinion, comes down to weight and stack height. Some people argue that stack height is advantageous for a wider ski because it gives you the a longer lever arm. The disadvantage is that you have less of a "connection" with the ski, and that results in a loss of fidelity - also that the added leverage makes the ski more "hooky." I'm sure there are full threads dedicated to this issue (too lazy to search *see edit below*), but I personally felt the new Duke's make the ski felt more dead to me. However, this could have been the skis, as I've never skied the same ski mounted with Duke's and an alpine binder.

Personally, I'd mount them with inserts for FKS and Plum/Dynafit (or the Sollyfit plate) if you don't plan on charging out of bounds.

BTW: I'm not totally against them - I'll probably use them on my pow setup this winter for sled-accessed short skins when I want to be charging hard and don't trust a tech binder to hold me in. Though even that will depend on how confident I feel on the Plum Guides - if I can avoid the Dukes and go with a inserts for FKS/Plum, I will.

EDIT: Here's some relevant threads: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...e+stack+height
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...e+stack+height
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...e+stack+height

Looks like that last one may make me rethink my opinion on the Dukes.

/threadjack.

I ended up going with the Dukes. I also have some Tecnica Bushwackers on order. Now we just need some F'n snow!

The major problem with last years Marker Tour bindings was that snow and/or ice would build up between the front baseplate and the frame under the toe piece resulting in a fulcrum and lever scenario.

Frame = Lever
Snow / Ice = Fulcrum
Skier = Force
Pivot = Load



If enough snow/ice built up between the front baseplate and the toe piece/front of the frame the pivot would fail. The frame also flexed a lot contributing to the problem. The Duke and the Baron have the same problem just that they are so beefy that the pivot rarely fails but they will develop play in the pivot over time. Marker made a lot of changes to the Tour to address this problem. They also made changes that addressed other issues that were no bueno.

These are the changes that I am aware of:

1. Toe height adjustment range increased to fit more boots.
2. Teflon shoes instead of rollers on the toe wings. Less play, less parts, smoother action, and tighter link. Less wear with boots that have tech fittings.
3. Larger diameter stainless steel hollow pivot axle with teflon bushings. Stronger and smoother pivot action. Eliminates flex at the pivot.
4. Material was added and geometry tweaked around the pivot on the pivot towers, the toe piece of the frame, and on the frame around the AFD.
5. Plastic was changed from polypropylene to polyamide. Strong, durable, rigid, resistant to abrasion, hi elongation, and hi impact strength.
6. Teflon tape added to the surface of front baseplate. Rubber boot added to the AFD adjustment screw. Less susceptible to icing and build up of snow.
7. Tour / ski latch has been tweaked to make it easier to open and close with gloves on.
8. Geometry of the frame and rear baseplate has been tweaked to improve transition from tour to ski mode and to help clear snow and ice. The parts fit better and the binding sits flatter on the ski.
9. Geometry of the heel piece has been tweaked to improve step in engagement.
10. Weight per pair increased by about 23 grams.

If you are a good to excellent technical skier who manages his exposure to risk in the BC I think it’s a good option. If you are truly rad, gnarly, jump off of massive shit, suck, crash a lot, and/or ski like a drunk Orangatang you might be better served with a Baron or a Duke.

FYI - I have no affiliation with nor do I work for Marker and I ski on Solly's and Dynafits.

since all this talk about marker bindings i figured i ask my question here. my boots have a 313 bsl which falls in the range for either a L or S duke or baron. i'm leaning towards small so i have less weight to carry, but almost want to go L in case the next set of boots is a little bigger (won't break 320) so i don't have S bindings pushed to their max length to accommodate my feet. so L or S?

Clearly S in my opinion. They'll easily fit 325 or even 328, so don't worry about pushing them to their max length with your bsl.

If you're considering paying the coin for Dukes also consider the MFD Alltime plate with your choice of alpine binding. The MFD's pivots are twice the diameter of the Duke's, go into aluminum rather than plastic and have bushings like an MTB shock that are user-replaceable.

Dukes and Barons ski the same. Barons have more plastic and lower DIN but otherwise are the same design as Duke. Non-touring equivalents: Duke-->Jester; Baron-->Griffon; F10/F12-->Squire. Duke, Baron and F10/F12 have high stack heights and not much ramp angle for most boots. (Ramp angle varies from boot to boot.) All of them ski fine, markedly better than Fritschis, although no better than tech bindings (which ski great but are prone to eventual fatigue failures if they are used too much on hardpack). The primary mechanical weakness of all Marker touring bindings is the DH/touring mode switch mechanism. Be certain to clear the entire mechanism of snow and ice before switching from DH to tour. See Alpinord's thread re the F10/F12 touring pivot redesign. If you plan to do lots of touring, get Dynafits or some other tech bindings.