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01-20-2011, 12:27 PM #1
one more stoke thread.. convince me not to buy them
Looking for a new pure touring ski, have a line on a pair of 182 stokes, but have a few concerns. I've read all the recent rockered touring/stoke threads, but thought I'd start a new one.
First, about me.
ski 60+days a year. Half of these are inbounds at Blackcomb and half touring.
When inbounds, I ski fast and hard with the local chargers (atrain/powder11/rugby dave/postman). Loving my 188 S7s after switching from 184 b-squads.
My touring days usually involve lots of vert (6000ft+), hut trips, long days and longs walks with leelau and others who put in big days. Like most, I tend to tone it down a bit when touring, but still like skiing fast, smaller hucks, pillow lines and steep couloirs and faces. Tours often end up with some survival skiing through tight ugly trees in bad snow, or firm snow on steep slopes.
Skis I love(d):
S7s - really like how flickable they are, especially in trees, have no trouble at high speed on these, aren't the best in heavy crud. I'm not considering them for touring due to the weight and waist width.
182 Atomic Sugar Daddies - my original touring ski. Liked the medium/stiff flex, loved the light weight and long radius. Retired them a few years ago when I switched to dynafit. If this had rocker I'd be buying them all up off ebay.
Skis I havent' loved:
184 b-squad - Inbounds ski for two seasons. Liked being able to point it through any snow condition. After skiing a friends 192? XXLs and my S7s, found them to be too much work. Didn't like the tip dive.
184 movemt sluff - Current touring ski. Great ski at medium speeds and medium turn length. Don't like soft tip. At speed I feel like the tip gets loaded up and wants to suddenly snap me into a tighter turn. On steep, firm snow I feel like the tip gets hooked up and I can't engage the underfoot edge effectively.
My perfect touring ski:
-able to ski january powder and spring volcano missions
-lightweight - I have a baby on the way, would like to be able to keep up on the skin track once my days on skis start to drop
-medium stiff - if a squad is a 9/10, maybe 7/10? Hate feeling like my ski is going to fold in half, but still dont' want something my touring boots can't drive.
-tip rocker/reverse camber
-flat tail - would be nice, but not a deal breaker.
-longer turn radius if traditionally shaped- high 20s+
-waist in the 100-110m range - don't want to go too wide as I like being able to get effective edge grip when skinning across firm sidehills.
I originally had a line on some Kastle mx108s, but that fell through. Seemed like the perfect ski. DPS would obviously be awesome, but it looks like they're sold out for the year, and my wife would kill me when she saw the credit card statement.
Currently, my frontrunner is the 182 Dynafit Stoke, mostly because I know of a used pair I could get my hands on. I'm a little worried about some of the reviews that talk about it not being a high speed ski (wildsnow review), but lots of others seem to love it. Lee likes his, but I tend to push my skis a little harder than him.
Other skis that have really interested me:
Atomic Charter 186 - Sugar daddy with tip rocker and flat tail??? the holy grail?? can't find any reviews or info on flex.
K2 Coomback - haven't liked K2s since I delaminated a couple pairs 15 yrs ago, other than that, seem to get a lot of meh reviews.
Faction Alias 188 - Look killer, but on the heavy side
Voile Charger 181- no idea on flex
G3 Manhattan 185- not much in the way of reviews
186 PM gear Lhasa - costly, but I like the style of ski and weight
thinking out of the box
Any provide any insights? Can the stoke cope with high speeds? Should I just SAC up and buy the stokes?
Last edited by Cheesestoff; 01-20-2011 at 08:38 PM.
01-20-2011, 12:39 PM #2
Stoke is very sweet, but perhaps too floppy for you. Demo if you can.
I haven't skied most of the skis on your list, but: Instead of coomba(ck), I would point you toward K2 Hardside. It's got more balls, and still light.
01-20-2011, 12:51 PM #3Registered User
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
Why don't you try Athan's Lhasas? Couple different size options(191 or 186), lightweight, awesome tip, could cut the tail flat if necessary, provide some of the feel you like in your S7s. I think most of those other options you listed would come too close to your Sluff and the way you charge with the S7s, I don't think you'll ever enjoy a more traditional shape ski again.
01-20-2011, 12:58 PM #4
The Charter is a ski that really interests me. If you want more info, it appears to be the same ski as the Access but with the twin chopped off.
01-20-2011, 06:19 PM #5one of those sickos
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
I'll be skiing a pair of Voile Chargers in 181 as soon as it snows again, and I'll let you know how they are. Based on a side-by-side in-store flex test against Stokes, Coombacks and Charters, they're the stiffest of the four, and far stiffer than Coombacks. Everybody seems to love the Stokes, but they seem a bit softer than the Charters and Chargers, though quite a bit lighter as well. They're also easy to mount and experiment with mounting position on, a not-to-be neglected feature, IMO.
I'm about your size, and it sounds like I ski like you as well, except that all of my time is in the BC (80-100 days). The Charters definitely caught my interest, but I got a deal on Chargers. They seem very similar, but the Chargers win in the waist width category, important for us here in the Sierra. If I had a line on cheap used Stokes, I'd jump on them.
I'm now skiing in BD Quadrants, and they drive my current 110 waist skis (Surface Live Lifes) much better than the Scarpa Spirit 3s they replaced. I've never skied in real alpine boots (I'm a tele-refugee), but the contrast has taught me why people bitch about AT boots not being stiff enough. I can only imagine that real alpine boots are another big jump up in performance.ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.
01-20-2011, 06:30 PM #6
If you get the 182 Stokes...
01-20-2011, 06:35 PM #7Registered User
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- North Vancouver/Whistler
I think you will over power the Stokes to be honest.
I've got a pair of 185 G3 Manhattans waiting for me to pick up from G3. I won't be able to use them much for a couple of weeks so you can try them out while I'm away at Icefall. Mounted with onyx but i insisted on brakes
I've got Atomic Charter 186 and Atlas 182 waiting for me when i get back from Icefall so you can try those too. Will be mounted with Markers but w/e
Basically I think you're looking for the same thing I'm looking for - early rise tips or rockered tips that aren't insanely heavy with fairly flat tails. Not overly concerned about weight but don't want heavy boatanchors.
I rejected the BD Drift because its a noodle. Ditto BD Justice. I have Zealots coming my way but they're so heavy I'll use them mostly inbounds
01-20-2011, 08:36 PM #8
Thanks Lee, probably take you up on some of those demos. Kinda thought i'd overpower the Stokes.
After more googling, the Atomic Charter isn't really the 2nd coming of the sugar daddy. 22m radius instead of 28m on the sugar. Wood core vs the beta foam core. Still interesting though.
Rob, thanks for reminding me about the Lhasa. That should be on the list. Unfortunately it fits in with the DPS, pretty much double the price of what i can get the stokes for.
Climberevan, interested to hear how you find the Voiles. I definetly prefer lighter, but I don't want to sacrifice too much in skiing performance.
Thanks for everyones input.
01-21-2011, 02:54 AM #9
^ Ya know, Voile Chargers are pretty darn light for this category. If weight is such a concern it seems like the Stokes would be the way to go, as anything else that compares weight wise would be, well, DPS or PM Gear. You should be looking at K2 Sidestash, not Coombacks, and you should be looking at ON3P Viciks.
01-21-2011, 05:59 AM #10
Might be a little soft, but the Liberty Helix w/stealth rocker would be one of my top picks for a lightweight touring ski.Technical Scandinavian Style since 1986 - www.crossskiwear.com
01-22-2011, 11:06 PM #11
what? I thought you were jumping on the ehp wagon last year? You've heard my ravings about them. I can't recommend them enough. Probably going to buy a spare pair just in case they change them. For real, they are an awesome touring ski.
01-23-2011, 05:32 PM #12
what about the s3? yep, its on the heavier side, and the tail isn't ideal for touring, but if you really like the S7's...
01-24-2011, 12:31 PM #13Registered User
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Flipped through my last FriFlyt (norwegian ski mag) where they tested touring skis. As some of you may know they have a very special way of testing ski flex developed by Endre Hals. The SFI (Ski Flex Index) consists of 5 numbers (1-9) representing different areas from tail to tip.
Stoke has an SFI of 57644 which really isn't that floppy. You find a similar and stiffer ski in the G3 Tonic at an SFI of 78754. A very different, classic ski like the Völkl Mantra has an SFI of 66665
BTW, Stoke got the highest marks in that test
Edit: Ooops, read the part in the topic about convincing you not to buy them - sorry
01-24-2011, 12:37 PM #14sendero
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Solly Sentinel maybe?
01-24-2011, 09:01 PM #15
the Justice is around 9.5 lbs in the 185 cm; I demo'd them recently and found them decent for a mid-weight ski and not noticeably soft while skiing. and i say that as someone who generally skis boards that are stiffer than most people ski (im103s, 197 katanas, etc).
I also skied the 192 zealots in spring conditions, and they were sorta meh. the fritschi bindings, once adjusted for my 28.5 boots, put me far back on the ski, which may have contributed to the one-trick-pony feel of the ski.
01-25-2011, 03:55 PM #16
G3 manhattan review up on doglotion.com
looks pretty good
01-31-2011, 06:39 PM #17Registered User
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
02-01-2011, 03:55 PM #18Registered User
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- SF Bay
Scott Powdair, just skied mine for the first time over the weekend. Fit the bill exactly and super light (1.75kg for 173) I have the 183's.
Stiffer than stokes for sure. Can be pricey though.
For such a light ski I cannot say enough about them. Review will be forthcoming.