Thread: Marker Tour F12 Major Failure

Resort skiing also didn't do much harm to the old version...

Originally Posted by Alpinord

Weird, almost looks like the AFD is adjusted all the way down with a flat sole...

EDIT: Now I see the toe isn't fully up in the rollers, never mind.

No, it looks, like it's not adjusted. You can see the gap between the edge at the toe wing that should hold the boot down and the upper toe edge. It's a couple of mm wide.

But indeed, every time I'd to adjust a Tour to an alpine sole, I had to go far lower with the AFD, than this little "alpine" mark on it suggests.

The shot was taken while in adjustment mode (you can see the included 'checker' paper):

Originally Posted by Knut

No, it looks, like it's not adjusted. You can see the gap between the edge at the toe wing that should hold the boot down and the upper toe edge. It's a couple of mm wide.

Absolutely right, I didn't look there.

Wow,

Wish I had checked here before getting a pair of F10 for my 120lb, non-charging girlfriend. 20 days on snow and voila



oh yeah here is a pic of the lady who rides them,



this is what we had to do to get down from the hut, which she spent the whole duration cursing marker's existence.



We have enough money to keep us in ramen and we have to leave rogers pass and squat in revy untill marker can warranty this garbage for us or another EI cheque comes in and we can buy something that doesn't suck. I've had shitty duke toe peices but they had over 100 days and I ride pretty hard. But this? What the fuck marker? Do they realize that crap like this will lose customers for life? I buy a setup every year and I help others do the same. Now, as I wait with a pissed off girlfriend jumping though warranty hoops complicated by lack of address, receipt or phone number. I figured I'd also post my two cents agreeing with everyone.

Don't buy marker!

Same question as before in this thread. What year are these?

Originally Posted by srsosbso

Same question as before in this thread. What year are these?

Based on the photos above and this: http://www.wildsnow.com/6034/marker-f12-f10-review/ They look like the dreaded 2011's. (Which I have and have not failed on me so far incidently).

Okay, thanks. Another 2011 failure then.

But what was the cause? Looks like a knee fall. Perhaps the OP could say a bit more?

These were 2011 stock purchased fall of this year as for the cause, it became apparent 3km into a 7km skin and at the end of the 7, it had gone from a little play to completely wrecked.

There was no fall or impact.

Originally Posted by bsavery

They look like the dreaded 2011's.

Yep, just look for the toe wing rollers. 2012 has a black piece there and no roller.



Huh, don't remember seeing the toes rotate away from the frame like that before, doesn't look like the usual cracking at the pivot. Slightly less than total destruction, but just as worthless to the user. Really glad I didn't buy a pair of these, and this new type of failure makes me wonder if it was accounted for in the 2012 model.

Originally Posted by Roacher

Now, as I wait with a pissed off girlfriend jumping though warranty hoops complicated by lack of address, receipt or phone number. I figured I'd also post my two cents agreeing with everyone.

Get a pair of used Barons and save your trip, they'll drop right into the same holes in her skis.

Originally Posted by 1000-oaks

Huh, don't remember seeing the toes rotate away from the frame like that before, doesn't look like the usual cracking at the pivot.

Rather common failure. Most bindings however just get soft in this connection.
Marker claims, that they're not aware of a single failure like that with the new version.

Picked up a pair of the 2012 F10s, I see Marker added more plastic in a few more places on the toe than mentioned in this thread. Not really sure why they tried to make the toes so light anyway; any weight near the pivot could be considered "ski weight" and isn't lifted much with every step. They might as well have used the Baron toe.

It's not scientific, but I compared the weight of the F10 heel to a Baron heel (since heel weight is what really matters, and one of the reasons Dynafit kicks ass) by placing the bindings upside down on a postage scale with the heel on the scale (with heel piece adjusted to the same length on both bindings).

The Baron heel is almost 10 ounces heavier, pretty substantial difference.

I have been using the F12 and F10 on two different pairs of skis. They are both 2011 models though the F10 seems to be a bit more refined than the F12 which I bought earlier last season. Happy to report no problems at all with around 100 days between the two bindings. Mostly skied in alpine mode, but probably 20% of the time spent touring. I recently spent a week touring in Austria and did see a fair number for Marker tour bindings in action though Fritschi is still dominant with Dynafit certainly a strong second. Getting the binding back into alpine mode was not an issue in the corny conditions. I did have problems clearing off the track in colder snow conditions earlier in the year. I think that toe height adjustment is key and if there is a bit of play, you can start to create some leverage on the toe that could result in a failure. I like the climbing aid. It's easier to manipulate than the Fritschi. Ski crampon works well. Crampon seems to be more aggressive than the Fristchi. That can be good or bad depending on the hardness of the snow. I've toured for over 30 years on a variety of bindings. Never broke any of them in tour or ski mode, so maybe I'm not a good "tester." But they work fine for me.

Just mounted my new F10s and noticed there's no grease where the black follower (under the spring in the heel lever) runs against the (white) cam, is it supposed to be just dry plastic-on-plastic there? Seems like it would be a good place for grease, but that would probably affect the release values.

Only other thing is one of the forward pressure screw tracks is mangled, they probably ran a power driver to run the heel piece on and the threads weren't lined up right away but they kept on driving it on. The rest of the track seems fine though, and at my BSL the adjustment screw is well ahead of the bad section. Looks like the stepped track just pops in, will have to see if Marker can send me another one.

Mounted on Bro 183 Fats, it's an amazingly lightweight setup.

Originally Posted by 1000-oaks

Just mounted my new F10s and noticed there's no grease where the black follower (under the spring in the heel lever) runs against the (white) cam, is it supposed to be just dry plastic-on-plastic there? Seems like it would be a good place for grease, but that would probably affect the release values.

I've never once seen a new binding with too little grease. It's usually all over the place.

Yeah, it's got plenty of grease everywhere else, just none on the HEEL PIVOT, lol. The irony of it.

Originally Posted by Knut

Rather common failure. Most bindings however just get soft in this connection.
Marker claims, that they're not aware of a single failure like that with the new version.

Hilarious. I just emailed marker and the guy responded with: I've never heard of this "knee-fall issue"...

Perhaps we'd all like to email marker and let them know?

Originally Posted by powderturns

Hilarious. I just emailed marker and the guy responded with: I've never heard of this "knee-fall issue"...

Perhaps we'd all like to email marker and let them know?

He must be new....

I don't know if this deserves it's own thread. Probably not. But I picked up a pair of this season's F12's and I am thrilled with them. I have dynafits and I have Barons, and have skied fritchis, silvretta's, whatever over the years.

These are way lighter than the Barons. The new heel lift is at a perfect height and easily deployed. Entry is akin to an alpine binding. Release is a bit either/or, which I find true of virtually all touring bindings I've used (ie. limited or no elasticity.) They are QUIET- quiet like dynafits- which is a big deal to me. The stride feels very natural.

I can't comment (yet) on durability, but so far so good.

If you want a 50/50 resort-slackcountry binding and dont want to shell out for dynafit compatible boots, I think these are a great choice.

I'll add that my 12/13 F12's are great so far. My first time on them, a tour, I did the knee to ski with no issue. I've had them on 3 more tours and a handful of hill days and they seem great. The stride and pivot feels good, plus they are so much lighter than the Barons. They feel super solid. My other touring bindings are Fritchis. I like being closer to the ski, although my 2 pairs are so different it's hard to say what's effecting what.

It would be nice if they didn't have to come off to go in/out of tour mode, but that's not a biggie. Also have to make sure that the binding latches in all 4 places when going into downhill mode, because they will easily latch in just 2.

The one odd thing was that I had a lot of rolling-lateral slop in the toe when they were adjusted to spec. The shop guy tightened the toe piece so much that the tester card/paper won't fit under my toe anymore, but they still release with a firm push of the hand.

My first gens have a good 5* of left/right play in tour mode. They were perfectly fine getting hammered at the hill, but after a handful of tours later on last season they developed play like crazy. Part of the play is also the toe piece rotates around the pivot around 10*, which equates to at least 1/8" of up/down movement. They feel sketchy as hell on the chair just wiggling them around. I don't need them anymore, but I'm not comfortable selling them in that condition. I keep them on my October/ November core shot competition skis... and carry a full roll of duct tape, waiting for the day they assplode.

^^^ First gens were disposable bindings. Too late for a warranty? The redesign is a good product.