[SPAM] Binding Freedom Threaded Inserts now available

[neufox47]

Sweet. To the Jong above, you have no idea what you are talking about. Not a diss to QK's, but these are better, will take less time to install and are more durable. I challenge you to provide the basis for the "poor customer service".

[SpinalTap]

Lastly, I've been working hard on a custom toolkit to make the installation process easier and more precise. I will post an installation tutorial in tech-talk as soon as I have all the details ironed out. Improved Installation kits will be available in the next few weeks. For now, I have everything you need to do a "traditional" installation on the site.

Jon, any word on when this new installation kit will be complete/for sale? I'm waiting anxiously to place my next www.bindingfreedom.com order.

[retirwntm]

jondrums,

got these and everything looks great! very fast on shipping as well, thanks. one question:

the instructions suggests mounting the plates on the average of 2 BSLs. can you check my logic? if my alpine boots are 307 and dynafit boots are 297, and i mount on the line for my alpine boots INSTEAD of average mount, the dynafit mount will end up being +1CM on ski mid line once i've moved the dynafit heel up to fit. is that correct? TIA.

[Mountain Junkie]

Is the center-to-center spacing between these inserts still 2cm? I was hoping to do a dual Solly and Dynafit mount on a single ski using inserts, but I remeasured the spacing between holes and I'm stuck at a 1.4cm center to center spacing on the toe holes. I'm guessing this might be too close?

[CaliBrit]

jondrums,

got these and everything looks great! very fast on shipping as well, thanks. one question:

the instructions suggests mounting the plates on the average of 2 BSLs. can you check my logic? if my alpine boots are 307 and dynafit boots are 297, and i mount on the line for my alpine boots INSTEAD of average mount, the dynafit mount will end up being +1CM on ski mid line once i've moved the dynafit heel up to fit. is that correct? TIA.

I would think that if you mount at 307 and put in 297 boots, duke or 'fits you are +0.5cm (half the bsl difference). If you mount at the average you would either be +0.25cm or -0.25cm. 2.5mm is preeeety small..........

[GHSTRCN]

Is the center-to-center spacing between these inserts still 2mm? I was hoping to do a dual Solly and Dynafit mount on a single ski using inserts, but I remeasured the spacing between holes and I'm stuck at a 1.4mm center to center spacing on the toe holes. I'm guessing this might be too close?

You talking in cm, or mm?

I heard 1.5cm is ok in some other threads. Just making sure we're on the same page! haha

[jondrums]

My official line is minimum 20mm between inserts (center-to-center). Personally, I think that 15mm will work fine in a pinch, but I think it depends on the integrity of the ski and/or how hard they'll be skied. In a good quality wood core ski 15mm is probably still bomber (in my opinion). Basically, my point is, that if you go below 20mm, you do so at your own risk, and you'll need to weigh the various factors yourself.

As more people use these, and report on their findings, we'll know a lot better what works. But, I'd rather not have failures and like to be conservative on these kinds of things.

Please note, that anything under 10mm center-to-center, is nearly impossible to even achieve because of the size of the inserts.

[jondrums]

I would think that if you mount at 307 and put in 297 boots, duke or 'fits you are +0.5cm (half the bsl difference). If you mount at the average you would either be +0.25cm or -0.25cm. 2.5mm is preeeety small..........

The man speaks the truth. For reference, 1mm is about the thickness of a credit card. So its doubtful that you could differentiate the +2.5mm from a 0 mount. However, very good skiers have reported detecting a 5mm difference, so there you have it.

[Norseman]

I just did a mount with these for Dynafit and Solly and ended up having to go +1.5cm with the Solly's and -1.5cm for the dynafits. Obviously depends a little on you BSL's, but it was a little tricky avoiding hole interference. Closest they got was 1.5cm center-center.

Definitely nerve-wracking to punch 17 holes per ski in a set of new DPS lotus 138's (that aren't mine).

[retirwntm]

However, very good skiers have reported detecting a 5mm difference, so there you have it.

it's official, i won't notice a difference then thanks for the feedback.

[jondrums]

I just did a mount with these for Dynafit and Solly and ended up having to go +1.5cm with the Solly's and -1.5cm for the dynafits.

If not for this very issue, there would be no such thing as SollyFit plates Inserts work great, but dual mounts take a bit of skill/futzing.

[Mountain Junkie]

I just did a mount with these for Dynafit and Solly and ended up having to go +1.5cm with the Solly's and -1.5cm for the dynafits. Obviously depends a little on you BSL's, but it was a little tricky avoiding hole interference. Closest they got was 1.5cm center-center.

Good to know. I have a pair of Lhasas that already have a Solly mount. Can't decide to go insert route or plate route on these. Would prefer to go insert, since I like being close to the ski, but slapping a plate on and calling it good sounds pretty appealing.

[Norseman]

Yeah, these weren't mine so I didn't have the choice. Plates would've been much simpler, although I agree about being close to the ski.

Pretty awesome products nonetheless. Thanks jondrums

[mwthomsen]

Jon,

How close can the inserts go to a previous plugged/repaired mount? Using a wooden plug for filling the old holes.

[XavierD]

any word on the necessary lengths for fks/p18?

[ticketchecker]

the website shows them as backordered, true or false?

[jondrums]

Hi folks- a few updates, in response to the questions above.

1) I'm working on a new installation tool kit, some information here:
[ame="http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3151795#post3151795"]THREADED INSERTS: new installation method from Binding Freedom - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]

2) I recommend 17mm center-to-center for an old plugged hole, with an absolute minimum of 12mm.

3) I added a preselected screw-kit for FKS bindings (both Geze and modern toe) to the website: http://bindingfreedom.com/Pre-select...types-2001.htm

4) <edit Jan 28th> My 2011 stock is here, and all preorders have shipped

[Just Looking]

free bump for quick service, and products that work well.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

Really, even if 2mm of material between inserts my brain cannot digest how the hell one could pull that out. Why the proximity of these to one another has any bearing on strength I don't get; even mounted in such close proximity, how could these still not be stronger than a reg mount? There is SO much more material in contact with the core relative to a reg mount. Not to mention the installed insert itself has probably greater integrity than the core it replaced...

And I can completely understand why Jon would give distances like he does because it negates any chance of liability. To do otherwise would be idiotic. But is there really some science that went into determining that spacing?

The 1cm for regular mount drill holes just a generally accepted industry "standard" I think more through word of mouth than anything. If a hole is properly epoxied you can drill right next to it.

[Toby]

I think the risk is more of snapping the ski than of pulling out the insert.

[jondrums]

And I can completely understand why Jon would give distances like he does because it negates any chance of liability. To do otherwise would be idiotic. But is there really some science that went into determining that spacing?

That's exactly right. My opinion is certainly similar to yours, but I can't be cavalier about stuff like that.

Splat and I arranged a trade for a whole bunch of blem/warranty skis, so that I can specifically do some pull-out tests. I plan to take some data on the pull-out strength of the inserts, and I fully expect that they will come out much stronger than a regular mount even right next to each other.

Until there is real data behind it, I just can't in good faith recommend any closer than industry standard.

[SB]

Stoked to get my Sollyfit plates.

[SB]

Holy moley, they are here! :-)

[whacked]

I imagine that you're aware of the pull-out strength test thread by Zeno on Ttips. Here Funhog has given us summary box plots,
http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/vi...d7f596f1e73494

Foam core skis have more variance and are slightly stronger; metal top sheet makes a big difference, tapping is not-significantly different from not tapping.

[jondrums]

Yes, of course I followed those threads over the years! This stuff is right up my alley.

I don't have access to tools that good, but I will be able to collect good data with a block&tackle and a pull scale.

The M5 Stainless Fasteners I specify have a yield strength of about 1200lbs, and my belief is that we'll yield the fastener before the insert. We'll see!