Plum guide tech binding

[gregL]

I've taken them out and tried to figure out how to attach them a few times since, to no avail . . .

Plum gap is 4mm.

[honus]

To use the leashes take the end with a bight and girth hitch it through the hole in the lever of your toe piece. Make sure to do this the right direction, so the tail comes out point toward you, not twisted under the toe piece, everything should sit nice and flat. Then take the end with the stopper, wrap it around your boot and feed it through the loop that fits your boot best. I'm not a huge fan of leashes, but these seem like as elegant and simple of a solution as I have seen.

The wrench comes with the bindings is 4mm thick, and is designed to be used as the spacer. Do not set them up at 5.5 unless you like your skis to fly off your feet randomly.

[gregL]

To use the leashes take the end with a bight and girth hitch it through the hole in the lever of your toe piece. Make sure to do this the right direction, so the tail comes out point toward you, not twisted under the toe piece, everything should sit nice and flat. Then take the end with the stopper, wrap it around your boot and feed it through the loop that fits your boot best.

That seemed logical, but the fit was sloppy and I couldn't undo them with gloves on, so I just used the stretchy red Speed/Speed Radical ones, which will clip directly into the old style toe levers or the heel volcanoes.

[Sinecure]

Figuring out how to use the Plum leashes should be obvious. Honus just described it better than I could have.

But actually using them isn't so easy. Do yourself a favor and order a Leash Kit from BnD. It is much better than the stock one and it is longer than the one that Black Diamond sells (which would work too). You can actually take your skis off to remove skins without removing the leash (think of this as a safety factor so you don't lose your skis at the top of a line).

[thin cover]

^^^ I have been using the BD on mine and its a much better leash system, I can take my skins off with out having to remove the leash from my ankle

[marshalolson]

i just recieved an email from plum that their brakes are further delayed. they are stating jan/feb at this point.

my personal plan is that i will not see them this winter, maybe spring.

it also now sound like the brake will require a new base-plate and is sort of a PITA to install.

[Sinecure]

i just recieved an email from plum that their brakes are further delayed. they are stating jan/feb at this point.

my personal plan is that i will not see them this winter, maybe spring.

it also now sound like the brake will require a new base-plate and is sort of a PITA to install.

I had a feeling this was going to be the case. Either way, I'm glad I used Binding Freedom inserts to mount mine. I've already removed them once to send back to Plum for new toe levers. Now I won't have any problems if I want to remove them to mount brakes (although I'm leaning toward just sticking with BnD leashes).

I don't really miss the brakes on a touring ski. Then again, I haven't yet been whacked in the head by a leashed ski on a wipe-out. I don't miss those days from my youth.

[endure]

couple last jong questions re: mounting

1. the 4mm is for when full body weight is on the ski, correct? i.e. the ski should be pushed to the ground to remove camber, rather than measuring it when the boot alone is sitting on the ski?

2. I'm measuring the forward-back rivets on the heel binding to be 2mm apart. how do you fine-tune the forward-back position precisely if each position is spaced this far apart (i.e. get that 4mm gap spot on)? am I missing something?

3. I've heard that it is best to mount the binding in the centre of the forward-backward movement position.. however, I know that my current boot is on the small BSL, so is it safe to mount the binding closer to the front, knowing that if I switch boots I can move it back a greater distance? or is centre really the best for the binding?

[gregL]

1. I did it the same way I've always done Dynafits, unweighted.

2. You mean divots? The little concave things in the interior of the track? I just pushed the heel up with an old 4mm TLT spacer in there, eyeballed it straight, and tightened the screws. They may have moved slightly as I tightened them, but I checked the spacing afterwards and they were very close. If you're really picky about it, I guess you could tighten the screws first, then mark the screw holes with the actual baseplate before drilling, but mine have worked fine (in Dynafit inserts, so I didn't have a choice as to fore-aft position).

3. I think the adjustment track is plenty strong no matter where you place the heel - if you know you will use two different BSL's definitely mount where you can accomodate both (or if you have a short BSL boot like a TLT 5?)

[honus]

couple last jong questions re: mounting

1. the 4mm is for when full body weight is on the ski, correct? i.e. the ski should be pushed to the ground to remove camber, rather than measuring it when the boot alone is sitting on the ski?

2. I'm measuring the forward-back rivets on the heel binding to be 2mm apart. how do you fine-tune the forward-back position precisely if each position is spaced this far apart (i.e. get that 4mm gap spot on)? am I missing something?

3. I've heard that it is best to mount the binding in the centre of the forward-backward movement position.. however, I know that my current boot is on the small BSL, so is it safe to mount the binding closer to the front, knowing that if I switch boots I can move it back a greater distance? or is centre really the best for the binding?

1- I've always set up dynafits with the ski just sitting on a bench, cambered. The pins are meant to move slightly in and out of your boots to allow the ski to flex, and with Plum's longer pins I doubt there will be a problem with this causing any release issues. The movement in a cambered vs. uncambered ski, especially modern skis without much if any camber, is going to be quite small. I do want to bring mine down to the shop and test their release just out of curiosity, I'll let you know if what I find is interesting.

2- I think you're asking about the grooves in the sliding track system to adjust length, not sure what rivets you're talking about??? Either way, I'm not sure, but from setting mine up I think the grooves are actually opposing each other on each side, so there's one side that can be set at 2,4,6,8mm...and one that's 1,3,5,7mm, etc. I just barely tightened the screws enough that I could make a micro adjustment without sliding the whole heel piece too much, made sure my pins lined up, and tightened down the heel piece. When I was done I noticed that the screws that hold the heel down to the track weren't perfectly symmetrical, and when I made them symmetrical my heel pin alignment was way off, a-symmetrical and they are perfect. That's what lead me to believe they offset the grooves in the track.

3- It doesn't really matter. If you use a dynafit jig like I did then the heel piece should end up pretty close to the center of the track. I don't really think it makes a noticeable difference if the heel is fore or aft, and you could even argue that it would be strongest there because it's closer to the screws at the end of the track, and there's more metal there to make it stiffer.

^^^Jesus, I sound like jshefftz.

[endure]

wicked, thanks guys..

the rivets do not appear to be offset.. i'm looking straight down on them and they are lined up.. that is what grabs the screw head and holds it in place. so I still believe every screw positions are each 2 mm apart.. but I guess all the approximations with the system make it work fine?

and greg, yes, the tlt5 boot is what I'm thinking of.. my spirit 4's are 313 but I'm thinking of getting tlt5's which are 317 for my foot; not a big difference, but I have up to a 326 with b-squads, so I'd rather give myself more position on the long side of the bsl rather than the shorter

thanks again!

[endure]

you'll have to bear with me as this 'tech gap' is new to me... but for my TLT Speeds, the 4mm seems to be spot on, but for the bump that many people shave down. so that leads me to the question.. is it supposed to be 4mm from the bump, or from the main housing of the TLT Speed? The reason that I ask, is that the bump doesn't exist with the Plum, so there will be plenty more pin length in the boot than the TLT Speed. My original thought was that the length of pin in the boot should be relatively constant for all tech bindings...

[1000-oaks]

Pretty sure the countersunk scallops in the heel track on my pair are symmetrical. Designed to keep the screws from slipping and the post from twisting, since the foot of the post doesn't have much of an edge on the sides to keep it square.

[gregL]

is it supposed to be 4mm from the bump, or from the main housing of the TLT Speed?

4mm from the main housing, put the spacer above the bump if you haven't ground it down. There's a fair amount of variation in the pin lengths, esp. if you have older TLT Classic/Speeds (Jonathan S has this recorded somewhere), but I don't see how longer wouldn't be better so long as they don't hit the hard plastic of the boot sole).

[gregL]

Measured from the plastic base to the end of the pins, according to Jonathan:

Plum Guide = 11.98
Dynafit Comfort = 12.35
Dynafit Vertical = none w/ me, but should be same as Comfort
Dynafit Speed (09-10) = 10.87
Dynafit Tech (~2005) = ditto
Dynafit Tech body w/ Comfort/Vertical pins = 12.45

Maybe past a certain point they would hang up in lateral release if too long, but that's the range. He didn't give me a length on G3.

Edit to add: FWIW, Dynafit gives you about 6.85mm of pin inside the boot sockets when adjusted to current spec, Plum Guide is ~8.0mm

[endure]

so that means this mount is incorrect? It was the (who I thought?) competent guys at Escape Route that mounted them (09-10 speeds). Hard to see, but it is flush with the 'bump'. I'm intrigued, as I've heel tele-released quite a few times during heavy snow or quick jump turns.. I thought it was just my aggressive forward leaning ski style I adapted from instructing

[gregL]

Incorrect. Put the torx key above the bump and re-adjust. Hope you have enough room, it appears to be pretty far forward already.

[endure]

well shit. looks like they f-ed up that mount.. it's as far forwards as it can.

[gregL]

Ask them to swap you out for a set of Plums (or ST's for that matter), they fit the same holes and have a much larger adjustment range . . .

[endure]

I would, except that I'm a 15 hour drive from them now. fack! here I was blaming the bindings when it was the mounters fault. anyways... back to Plum. :/

[gregL]

To quote Lou Dawson:

"With earlier TLT bindings don't jam the spacer down over the plastic bump on the binding, but rather let it set on top of it."

http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/dyn...nt_2001_2.html

[Jonathan S.]

Measured from the plastic base to the end of the pins, according to Jonathan:

Plum Guide = 11.98
Dynafit Comfort = 12.35
Dynafit Vertical = none w/ me, but should be same as Comfort
Dynafit Speed (09-10) = 10.87
Dynafit Tech (~2005) = ditto
Dynafit Tech body w/ Comfort/Vertical pins = 12.45

Maybe past a certain point they would hang up in lateral release if too long, but that's the range. He didn't give me a length on G3.

G3 Onyx/Ruby is pretty much 12 even or a little over. (I'll have La Sportiva / ATK RT next week for more measurement fun -- I just hope that all four Tech bindings can get along with each other in my ski room!)
I wouldn't get hung up on these precise measurements, since I'm just reading the caliper display from when I got the "best" reading but for all the models except the Speed, the variation among models is actually less than the variation I can get with slightly different measurement techniques (e.g., exactly which part of the plastic housing to use). So bottomline is that Speed is definitely and significantly shorter, while all the others are pretty much the same.

Edit to add: FWIW, Dynafit gives you about 6.85mm of pin inside the boot sockets when adjusted to current spec, Plum Guide is ~8.0mm

This is a deliberate and carefully thought-out design on Plum's part. When I questioned them about it last season, they responded with all sorts of interesting diagrams and information.

[Jonathan S.]

Incorrect. Put the torx key above the bump and re-adjust. Hope you have enough room, it appears to be pretty far forward already.

Ask them to swap you out for a set of Plums (or ST's for that matter), they fit the same holes and have a much larger adjustment range . . .

If that wrench you have in there is really 4mm, and you can't go forward any more (remember that the worm drive goes in the opposition direction of the Comfort/Vertical and probably also Radical), then that is a shocking error from a shop that otherwise seems to have an excellent reputation.
Another option is to see if they will swap you heel units for the new Speed Radical, which has a much longer fore/aft adjustment range that can accommodate their apparent mistake. (The Speed Radical toe units though would require redrilling.) A swap with the Vertical ST would of course also work, although add about six ounces per pair. And of course a Plum Guide swap would be sweet, but also rather pricey for them, although then again, it's their mistake to fix.

[Jonathan S.]

^^^Jesus, I sound like jshefftz.

And I was just about to write all of what you put down there!

To elaborate a bit more:

1. This is probably obvious, but the point of the gap is to allow for decambering of the ski at the heart of a turn, whereas the additional pin penetration allows for some occasionally excessive recambering, plus the extent of pin penetration is an important factor in release characteristics. (Supposedly some rando racers tweak the otherwise fixed release values of their bindings by intentionally deviating from the specified gap, but like many aspects of rando racing, this is of the “don’t try this at home” variety.)

2. Bottomline is that the track adjustment allows for fine tuning just as precise as a worm drive. Just be careful with the left<>right symmetry.

3. I’ve always thought that the only point for a mount centered in the fore-aft adjustment range was to allow for future bsl changes in either direction. (During the 2009-10 season I mounted a couple setups deliberately biased for friends who anticipated switching to the drastically shorter TLT5 bsl for the 2010-11 season.)

[Jonathan S.]

To use the leashes take the end with a bight and girth hitch it through the hole in the lever of your toe piece. Make sure to do this the right direction, so the tail comes out point toward you, not twisted under the toe piece, everything should sit nice and flat. Then take the end with the stopper, wrap it around your boot and feed it through the loop that fits your boot best. I'm not a huge fan of leashes, but these seem like as elegant and simple of a solution as I have seen.

Oh yes, my big opportunity to repeat the classic TGR line of:
THIS POST IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PICTURES!
(And I'm not talking about your naked girlfriend, mistress, etc.)

Also, yesterday I posted a few not-very-insightful follow-up thoughts here (towards the end) after having returned to Guide usage from a few-month hiatus:
http://www.wildsnow.com/3987/plum-gu...ding/#comments