Thread: Salomon AT Binding

sound like a potential winner here. Too bad I will not buy them until things are square with TC.

Wow this is quite the shit storm started over ski binding rumors.

Regardless of the shitty thing Salomon did with the Quest boot, I'm anxious to see what this new AT binding looks like.

2nd on the good climbing bar. The duke's bar sucks, no way around it, even if you get the tall one you have to squat down and use your hands to get it out of the middle position. The Marker Tour bar is a much better design.

It would be great if it had at least 2 settings with one being 14ish degrees and one at 7, easily ski pole operable.

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

Chub- I sincerely wish I could speak about that (wish I could have talked a lot with everybody really). But now the talking is solely in the hands of the lawyers of both parties.

As an attorney who has litigated products defect cases before, I completely understand. I don't hold any of Salomon's actions against you, or blame you in any way.

Originally Posted by LeeLau

Is this what this has come down to? Anyone remotely associated with Saloman is going to be stalked. harassed and chased off this forum until they disclose and discuss their position on Thin Cover's injuries and resolution of appropriate compensation to him?

Not by me.

But to read a promotion of Salomon's new AT binding as having gone through a lengthy R&D process over 3+ years, makes me skeptical when I look at the simple testing performed by Lou Dawson on the Quest AT sole blocks -- and the performance of the Salomon tech fittings when subjected to those simple tests. That's all.

Unless I'm mistaken, this AT binding will be the second AT product that Salomon has brought to market in the U.S. The first product had significant flaws.

While it totally sucks that a 1st class maggot has potentailly life changing injuries imo caused by a hastily released inadequately tested product and I'll continue to boycott all their products untill a resulotion is made.
I got to believe soli learned a lesson and any future AT products are going to be tested retested and any corner cutting to achieve pricepoints weight etc are going to be scrutinized and hopefully rejected. If anything I think they will err on the side of burl.
I also have a lot of respect for the op and maggots like md9 who didn't post bullshit in the solomon quest insert thread.

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

Alright, since this is quite the multi-faceted conversation, I'll try to hit all points separately.

Just want to say I appreciate that you come on here and post. I would indeed feel better about a product knowing that you hammered the fuck out of it in testing and tried to break it... I just wish that everything they released had to go through you first...

I think there's obviously still plenty of skepticism in the minds of people in regards to Solly's R&D process and with good reason. Some very simple and serious details have slipped through the cracks on the Quest project and that was their baby last year so it's tough to have that in the back of your mind for sure. I don't want it to stop the forward progress of binding and boot technology, rather to teach us a valuable lesson so it's good to see they're not rushing this binding.

Thanks for taking the time to let us know you're standing betwen us and enginerds/metallurgists/mold makers to make sure nothing gets lost in translation. It helps. Not that I'll be buying anything Solly until I see how their legal teams treat D, but I like knowing that my friends who are still solly fans have you looking out for them. Mistakes happen and the last one surely had unfortunate consequences but I'm sincerely hoping that Solly has taken this wakeup thai kick and headed in the right direction with it, as all our thrunting feels like it hasn't done shit somethimes which is frustrating and scary at the same time. It's a lot of quality resource to waste on inferior products and that's not the Solly we knew and loved, so thanks for the info and keep hammering the tits in on everything you touch.

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

I literally have no idea on that, but I'll put it in front of those guys and one, see if that is the case, and two, if it's not, I'll put that request forward. I gotta say it is awesome working hand in hand on this project with the guy that invented the Salomon Driver binding.

Thanks cody.

I use an AT boot with vibrams all of the time (prefer not to swap soles on my titans). I'd be interested to see what Solly offers. I use Dukes for inbounds/sidecountry and dynafits for longer tours.

Would really like to see Salomon come out with:
1) lower stack height than the Duke
2) something lighter than the Duke
3) again compatibility with vibram soles. Maybe look at Fritschi (shirk was saying that fritschi is the only touring binding "certified" for vibram soles - and that somehow Dukes weren't). Overall, I've been "ok" to date with Dukes and my vibram soled titans (or factors) except when I had the toe height set incorrectly.

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

But to read a promotion of Salomon's new AT binding as having gone through a lengthy R&D process over 3+ years, makes me skeptical when I look at the simple testing performed by Lou Dawson on the Quest AT sole blocks -- and the performance of the Salomon tech fittings when subjected to those simple tests. That's all.

Unless I'm mistaken, this AT binding will be the second AT product that Salomon has brought to market in the U.S. The first product had significant flaws.

Skepticism is fine. As a product tester in the notoriously flaky bike and ski industry I will view all first generation production models as inherently flaky. Haranguing someone associated with the company when all they've done is share general and vague information is another thing entirely.

Not bashing Cody - I don't expect any specifics about this new AT binding and am surprised that he's even willing to entertain discussion about it given that, as he correctly points out, that binding will probably change a lot before production.

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I kinda wonder what rigid standard Salomon would test to cuz its not like DIN ...there are no AT standards

You need to hit the googles and do some research. There are DIN standards for touring bindings.

DIN ISO 13992 touring bindings
DIN ISO 9462 alpine bindings

Boots.
DIN ISO 9523 touring ski boots
DIN ISO 5355 alpine ski boots

The "tech" specific systems have no current DIN ISO norms for bindings or boot inserts. But it's looking like a small binding manufacture is working to get theirs certified to the 13992 standard.

Alka, my only beef with your posts is this statement by you:

"Like I said before, can't comment on details because they're still in their infancy of the usual long on-snow developmental process."

The nicest thing I can say about your mention of Salomon's "usual long on-snow developmental process" is that you are guilty of gross insensitivity. The nastiest thing I can say is that you might be guilty of deliberately planting propaganda.

I say these things because I don't want any skiers to get hurt or killed because of misleading info about the quality of Salomon's recent design and testing. If the people who designed and tested Salomon's Quest AT boot have been fired, I salute Salomon for making at least one small move in a decent direction. If no one has been fired, then some of Salomon's new products will come from the same people who put out the Quest. Would you stake your life, or your wife's life, or your child's life, on a product put out by these people?

I'll bet Salomon's lawyers won't allow employees to say whether anyone on the Quest team has been fired.

Giving people a hard time makes me sick to my stomach. But sitting this one out would have made me twice as sick.

Originally Posted by wardog

Alka, my only beef with your posts is this statement by you:

"Like I said before, can't comment on details because they're still in their infancy of the usual long on-snow developmental process."

The nicest thing I can say about your mention of Salomon's "usual long on-snow developmental process" is that you are guilty of gross insensitivity. The nastiest thing I can say is that you might be guilty of deliberately planting propaganda.

Okay Wardog, I can see your perspective on that statement. But the fact is I have been skiing for Salomon for quite a long time now and I've been through numerous product development operations. I skied for an entire winter and into the south american summer on about 8 different pairs of Czars before we settled on a version and they were taken to SIA for the next season. I skied on the El Dictator a year and a half before it hit shelves this season. I even went through two entire years on the development of the Ghost boot before it went to SIA.

So I included that statement because testing periods are obviously a relevant issue on the forums and this binding is following the typical procedures that I have experienced with products in the past.

As far as insensitivity, if you or others are taking it that way then for that I am sorry. But as far as propaganda? If I was in Blackcomb testing the binding and am getting bindings shipped to ski on this winter then I don't understand how a reality like that could be perceived like the falsity that is propaganda.

Again, sorry if you were or any others are offended, I'm trying to bring you into the process that I get to experience as an athlete.

Not offended, just comes out like the hype that surrounded the Quest boot. Until there's an actual production binding out - put me in the doesn't give a fuck category.

To Alka:

Brother, I said what I needed to say. You could say nasty things at me and you haven't done that.

Out of all your posts, five words bothered me. IMO I was bothered for a good reason. Folks here on TGR say you're a good man, and I believe you do good work, and you had nothing to do with the Quest.

Life goes on and I wish you the best.

So far this thread is making me like people.

/\/\Yeah, so far the conversation has been pretty reasonable. I just hope Salomon squares things with TC. An early and fair resolution benefits everybody. Hopefully the attorneys involved realize this. Once litigation is threatened and/or filed I've seen things get out of hand fairly quickly and what should be settled early turns into a protracted and largely unnecessary fight.

Originally Posted by wardog

Out of all your posts, five words bothered me. IMO I was bothered for a good reason. Folks here on TGR say you're a good man, and I believe you do good work, and you had nothing to do with the Quest.

Life goes on and I wish you the best.

I'd say he does good work

[ame="http://vimeo.com/2235919"]Cody Townsend- Self-Edit 07/08 on Vimeo[/ame]

Originally Posted by XtrPickels

I'd say he does good work

Cody Townsend- Self-Edit 07/08 on Vimeo

It's true. The man is a habitual snow rapist.

I welcome the competition that the new Salomon AT binding might potentially bring to the market.
I think as a user group we all benefit, it'll keep raising the bar.
I don't see Marker giving up on this category and look forward to seeing an evolution in their products as well.
In the mean time, I like everyone else, am hopeful for a speedy recovery and settlement for TC.

Originally Posted by AlpenChronicHabitual

I welcome the competition that the new Salomon AT binding might potentially bring to the market.
I think as a user group we all benefit, it'll keep raising the bar.
I don't see Marker giving up on this category and look forward to seeing an evolution in their products as well.
In the mean time, I like everyone else, am hopeful for a speedy recovery and settlement for TC.

quoted for truth, with the caveat that it could be another piece of junk and injure someone else so that they can never ski again.

any additional information????????? Should I wait until next year instead of buying dukes?

Originally Posted by jgoldsmith729

any additional information????????? Should I wait until next year instead of buying dukes?

that depends if you want to ski this year

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

I gotta say it is awesome working hand in hand on this project with the guy that invented the Salomon Driver binding.

This really raises an eyebrow for me in a good way. It would be tough to argue that there is a binding design that more people have skied on than drivers.

I feel bad for TC and it does appear that Solly may have some issues with the Quest. I 100% support him being treated fairly and sooner than later. We're not talking about Quests and TC has a thread devoted to the issues though.

Man, I've been skiing on Salomon drivers in one form or another since I started and they've always kept my appendages going strong in some bad situations. I've also mounted hundreds of bindings if not thousands and I've never seen many issues with drivers which is tough to say for the other manufacturers I've dealt with or even other types of Salomon bindings. Most of the people I know ski on some type 9xx and before that, some type 7xx.

I'm stoked you are posting info here and am even more stoked to see what Salomon comes up with in the heavy tour market.

Am I kissing ass here, no. Am I a fanboy, yes. But I don't bandwagon my fan status. It took years of trying and working on different bindings to know what I like.

Originally Posted by laseranimal

There's no need to flame Alka here, as others have said he's a standup dude and he didn't start the thread, he's just providing IMHO good info.

I personally have reservations about purchasing ANY touring oriented Salomon product(and I won't be buying any new Salomon product until they make things right with Dalton), however that doesn't mean I get to act like a jackass any time anyone from Salomon comes on the board to talk about product(especially product that doesn't have anything to do with Dalton's injury).
...

I'm newer than most of you, but this is about where I stand. Go flame the lawyers, not the skiers.

I just want to echo what has already been said (in case Solomon is listening): that the binding work with rockered AT boots is key for me. Also, having at least some ramp angle in ski mode would be a big plus, it is strange switching between dynafits (with lots of ramp angle in ski mode) to dukes (with no ramp angle) on the same day.

Fuck high ramp angle! The Dynafits are the one that are wrong.