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Thread: Review: 10/11 ON3P Vicik
12-31-2010, 11:26 AM #51
Just curious: How did you decide on -8cm from center for your mount?
12-31-2010, 12:17 PM #52
Recommended mount point is listed on this page, and marked on the sidewall at the recommended mount point.
12-31-2010, 07:43 PM #53
Got a run in on these today (thanks Billy) at 1cm back of recommended with Dukes. Fuck they rail. Very similar turn radius as the Wrenegade (it felt like at least) but they lock into the turn much faster, even on hardpack. They definitely got a little more knocked around in the crud than the Wren, but were still solid. Didn't find a speed limit, but it was only one run. They don't scrub speed as well as the Wrenegade and I'm sure that is because of the tail. The semi/half-twin (or whatever you want to call it) is really just a slight turn-up and the ski locks itself in like the old legend pro. I like it. Might have to add a pair to the quiver next season.
The 10/11 Billy Goat though, fuck it is awesome. Much much more well rounded than last years. Surprisingly good on groomers. Only scary on sheer ice and wet chalky snow.
12-31-2010, 10:14 PM #54Registered User
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- hell, CA pop 4
just to clarify.
the mark on the 186 Vicik is the recommended mount point, which is -8CM?
01-01-2011, 10:39 AM #55
"Playful Ripper" no longer an Oxymoron.
Preliminary test is in. Only have 3 days on my Viciks, all on soft snow. Two of the days included 18" new. Skied groomers, deep crud, shallow crud, steep bumps with windblow in the troughs, and wind hammered, but I was blessed with lots of new snow, so nothing very gnarly. I'm 6'5", 215 lbs, and mounted mine on the line. Had them add a little extra carbon underfoot. I mounted Look Pivots to minimize the effect on flex.
Not sure if it is the extra beef in the middle, or if the standard model is the same, because I know they have a slightly softer tip and tail, but they definitely had a front and back on them, as opposed to an even flex. This is not a negative, but immediately noticeable.
So, far, I would rate them first class in every condition. My only complaint is that they seemed to ski a little short, which for a guy my size was more of a factor than for most. Perhaps mounting them back a little might cure this for tall guys.
I cannot believe how easily these things turn, whether in knee deep or the bumps, they just initiate with a thought. I had to initally loosen my top buckles because I could not keep from over turning them in the powder. I dulled the tips 6" and the tails 4" and they hooked up and released nicely on the packed. The were very predicable in all conditions. Poppy and playful if I wanted, but always very predicable.
They are the smoothest skis I have ever used in crud. ON3P appears to have figured out the tip rocker/tip flex formula to perfection (which also works great in bumps). In a foot of cut up they turned into fucking roller skates.
My hat is off to Scott, Rowen and the ON3P crew. So far my Viciks are everything I wanted. I stopped in several SLC shops to check the after X-mas sales, and saw dozens of good skis at reduced prices that were more than the pre-sale price of my custom Viciks.Gravity Junkie
01-01-2011, 11:25 AM #56
01-16-2011, 07:53 AM #57
Nailed one of our local hills with epic but brutal conditions, took the Viciks for their first waist deep blower day. FABULOUS! Heavenly powder in West Virginia, a 14" plus storm with more than a 1" per hour snow fall and 40MPH plus wind gusts. I was able to dive deep for the face shot or lean back, ride to the surface and nibble at the fluff. We slayed the powder on all our favorite runs and then skied past "closed" signs for runs that were beyond belief! For me , one of my top 5 days of POWDER ever!
On a side note getting stuck on the lift for 20-30 minutes fully exposed to 40mph wind gusts was not the best but we had opted for FBD(Full Battle Dress) and were able to tolerate it until the aux system could be brought on.
I am elated with these skis, many comments on how nice they look but they ski even better. Thanks to Scott and crew for one of the best skis I have ever had.
01-16-2011, 10:22 AM #58
Carving the hard stuff on my Viciks
I had a day on the opposite end of the spectrum from Scottyb, although thanks to his detuning advice it was quite sweet. My Viciks came sharp tip to tail, and I detuned the entire rocker in the front, and about 4" of edge on the tails. They were still pretty catchy, so I took them to the local hill where they have not had snow for about 10 days, with the intent to dial them in. Skied them on hardpack, swithched feet, then detuned some more, and repeated.
I like a free floating ski, so I may detune a little more than others. After futher experimentation, and increasing the detune, especially on the tails (still 4", but duller) I got them where I really liked them. Probably because I am tall, the Viciks do not have a large sweet spot, but man is it sweet when you are on it. Once I realize I had to back off front loading them, they smoothed out and carved beautifully, even in farily hard bumps. Last run of the day I took them down a packed run under the lift that everyone had been avoiding because it had been buffed hard by a straight uphill wind all day. Certainly not icy by eastern standards, but about as smooth and slick as it gets in Colorado. The Viciks let me relax to an unexpected degree.
From day one the Viciks were a dream in deep snow, but I was starting to think that they were not really a "daily driver" because of their hardpack performance. I have now reversed that conclusion. At least for me, they require a much lighter touch than I am used to, but if I ski them from the middle they are smooth as glass. The very large turing radius means that carving shoter turns requires hitting the tips, which is defintely a finess move at speed, but I am starting to love these babies on hard snow way more than I thought possible for a 104 mm waisted ski.
I have always like an even flexing (big smile) ski that I can work front to back throughout a big turn. Dependable and predictable. The Viciks (at least mine, maybe because of the extra carbon underfoot) have a distinct front middle and back, which work very well together, but is requiring me to pay a little more attention than usual. Now that I am figuring them out I am finding options that I have not experience for a while, and which are rather exciting.
IMO the Viciks have a very distinct personality that took awhile to fully appreciate. My only advice to new owners is that you do not need to be agressive in driving them from the front. If you relax in the middle they will show you the love, and turn into hotrods on command.
Last edited by Mudfoot; 01-16-2011 at 11:51 AM.Gravity Junkie
01-16-2011, 11:55 AM #59
Glad you are getting them dialed, I may detune mine just a bit more but not much. A spirited steed indeed.
01-16-2011, 01:06 PM #60Registered User
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
hey im going to new zealand this summer, and im only brining one ski. do you all think this would be the best tool for the job? Does it really rip on hardpack like you say it does? i wouldnt mind hearing from that iggy character, im sure there is some bias but id still like to get his thoughts.
01-16-2011, 01:28 PM #61
It is a tip rockered ski with a very long sidecut radius, and a 104 waist, which is pretty much the opposite of what a good carving ski should be, but considering its charateristics, it does a very good job of holding an edge on hardpack, as long as you do not push the front end too hard. Don't know what the conditions are like in NZ, but if you can only take one ski, and want to error on the fat side, IMO the Vicik is an excellent choice, but I still think something around a 95 mm waist makes the best one ski quiver.Gravity Junkie
01-16-2011, 03:23 PM #62Registered User
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- hell, CA pop 4
my first day on them today, so really not ready to say much.
had bad visibilty, would ski about a 100 yards and goggles would be a sheet of ice. so really not a good day to judge anything.
mine are stiffer, because i'm pushing 3 bills, but they'll sure as hell hold an edge. i'm happy with hard pack peformance, haven't decided on moguls yet.
and no powder yet.
01-20-2011, 08:27 AM #63
I have 3 days on the Viciks. I will break down my observations by day, because conditions were quite different. I mounted the 186s at -.5 with 22 Designs Axls, and de-tuned the rocker and tails.
Day 1: Backcountry powder, nothing too steep. The Viciks handled well on the skin track, although they are heavier than some of my other BC setups. Snow was several feet of powder over rotten depth hoar layers (obviously I didn't ski anything too steep in those conditions). At first I thought I would have to stay on my tails more than I do on my tip and tail rockered skis. Not so, these like to be driven in a forward stance. Flotation was decent, but definitely nothing like Billy Goats, Lhasas, DPS 120s, etc. The tips like to plane back up pretty quick, but you have to be careful to not over-pressure your tips or they will dive- in tele turns anyway. I had no issues with tip dive in p-turns. These skis prefer a light touch when initiating a turn in deeper snow. The widest point of the ski is ahead of the running length, and as with other skis like that (Prophet 100 for example), they tend to hook up very rapidly. With the traditional tail, these skis are not really that 'slarvy'. If you are going to try to make slashing turns or just drift sideways, you gotta have some speed. Fortunately, you can ski as fast as you want to on these.
Day 2: Backcountry, boilerplate with little pockets of powder. In the powder, I noticed these handled better when you have a firm base/semi-consolidated underlying snowpack. No issues with tip dive, even in an agressive forward tele stance. Pretty decent handling on boilerplate. Maybe a bit catchy, but my edges are still sharp. They have no problem if you decide to say screw turning and just straightline over the crappy snow. I did get bounced around a little though when I opened them up- these are fairly stiff skis and I am 175 lbs.
Day 3: Lift served with groomers, crud, and 5-15 inches of powder. Unlike other rockered skis I have tried, these things rail on harder snow just like a trad camber ski. Great performance in shallower powder stashes, very fun. They definitely prefer longer radius turns, which is kind of weird since they hook up pretty fast. They demand a confident pilot. If I got too far back, or leaned on my edges too much, they would either buck me or force me back into a better stance. They don't have a huge sweet spot. When things got chopped up pretty good, they were a weird combo of confidence inspiring and worrisome. They can take the fastest line you dare, no problem. However, I really got bounced around a lot when I tried to just blow over stuff, it seems like their stiffness doesn't equal dampness for a lighter rider. I found some pow stashes in the woods that were poorly consolidated underneath, and I again found that they will bog down in conditions like that if you over pressure the tips.
Bottom line: These are amazing skis, another masterpiece from the guys at ON3P. If your home turf has lots of wide open spaces with variable snow, these are your skis. If you want something to powder hunt all day on, the Billy Goats would probably be a better pick. I think that my perceptions of stiffness are due both to my weight and my skill level. A heavier rider (around 200 or more), or an expert would probably find the flex just perfect. Maybe next year ON3P will make a 'soft' version for lighter guys and telemarkers?
Last edited by hiplainsdrifter; 01-20-2011 at 08:31 AM. Reason: hgj
01-22-2011, 10:23 PM #64Registered User
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
3 days in, all east coast, conditions = hard/ice, cold smoke pow, variable crud and chopped pow in VT; between 6" and 10" each day.
I'm 6'2 and 210. Ski with high energy and seek the steep/trees/rocks, etc. Absent that, moguls just for the challenge.
Wren and Phibers comments are spot on throughout. I'll add that these turn by thought, MUST be driven from the toes in <6 in, and truly have no speed limit. I virtually straight lined 2200 in chopped pow seeking instability and failed to find it. The mountain surrendered like the French.
Ski gives back 110% of what you put in, but it is a dead fish until you hit 15-20mph or so. Definitely not a loafers ski. Don't buy for the top sheet.
Moguls, not a problem whatsoever. Very quick edge to edge if you're properly motivated. Astonishing edge grip on ice for the width.
All systems go. Mad props ON3P.
(editing to add that I asked Scott to add some extra carbon fiber due to my size and skiing style. I'll also second some others' impressions that this ski has a 'refined' (as opposed to small) sweet spot. A few instances of gratuitous back-seat steeze in some steep moguls punctuated by 20 ft. vert of ice between knuckle-dragger affected bumps resulted in tip/turn excommunication - which was appropriate punishment for slack form. This ski wants your COG perpendicular to the fall line, where is where I try to be anyhow. As for Mudfoot's commentary on not getting too forward, I didn't experience that at all, but I suspect that the ski's discerning sweet spot coupled with his 6'5" frame had a lot to do with that. I'm 6'2", but I ride compact for my size.
Also, for anyone concerned about edge grip on very hard pack/moderate ice conditions, I'll add that this ski compares VERY favorably with the Volkl Mantra in my opinion - no small feat considering that it is almost 1cm wider at the waist. I can't comment on full-blown boiler plate though.
Parting thoughts: If you are researching this ski, you're not in the market for forgiving training wheels anyhow. I was looking for a ride with balls that had my back in a steep alley full of granite thugs, not a floppy cat-track crusher with a puppy dog top sheet playing an ice cream truck soundtrack. I am more than satisfied.
Last edited by Rubherlegs_2getha; 01-25-2011 at 08:15 PM. Reason: clarification
01-22-2011, 10:37 PM #65
I have 2 pair of ON3P's, both built stiffer than production flex and have read about quite a few being built with softer flex. Talk to Scott about what you are looking for and he will dial you in. Just got my Wren's mounted today, pretty phyched to get out on them.
01-22-2011, 11:16 PM #66
^ Actually I did that. I think he made them softer, but can't tell as they are still quite stiff. I don't have the 'standards' to compare them to side by side. I should have mentioned that in my review.
01-22-2011, 11:28 PM #67
Obviously I haven't yet skied my Wren's, but the C&D's that I ordered last year w/ stiffer flex the dude nailed it right on, exactly what I was looking for. Now if I could just start to like the NTN that I have mounted on them I would be set.
01-23-2011, 12:58 AM #68
Josh - if you like the skis but want to still go a good bit softer, shoot me an email and I will see what we can do for you.
01-23-2011, 02:33 AM #69
^ Exactly why I didn't bring it up to you guys Scott. I feel that it is really exceptional that a ski company exists that does this kind of made to order work, and I wouldn't expect a casual suggestion for slight tweakage to result in exactly what the buyer is looking for. The fact that the Viciks are a bit stiffer than I prefer is in no way your problem-although the fact that you are showing any interest in my opinion is yet another example of ON3P's peerless customer service.
I do really like the Viciks, and if you are able to make something softer for shrimps like me I am definitely interested. I will drop you a line.
Last edited by hiplainsdrifter; 01-23-2011 at 02:49 AM. Reason: fgjdhkj
01-23-2011, 03:07 AM #70
Replied to your email, if you want to make it happen just let me know.
And thanks for the reviews everyone else. Keep the feedback coming. We've been prototyping a ton these past few weeks and still have more to go and if there is anything people are finding they think we should change, I'd love to hear about it soon.
01-30-2011, 05:47 PM #71
I spent the weekend at Stowe on my new Viciks (186), thanks to Scott and the guys at ON3P for making a great ski!! Thanks also to GPetrics who offered me a mount for beer deal, but I rolled into town in the middle of the night so thanks to the guys at the Skier Shop for mounting them asap at 8:00 a.m. sharp.
I am 6' 1", 200 lbs. Racing background, like to go fast, not much into airs other than maching over a knoll. Currently also own Prophet 100 186, Mantra 184 and Mothership 195. My goal is to have a ski that does everything well. I expect a lot of my skis and am pretty picky.
My general comment is that I am really psyched about these skis. The build looks great in terms of durablility and also aesthetically (I went with Wren graphics which are by far my favorite over on any ski I have owned). I went with a little extra carbon underfoot which seemed to work well; I obviously can't comment on what it adds per se because I don't know how they ski without the extra carbon. Scott said the change was minor. One general construction comment I had was the absence of edge around the tips and tails? I believe this is the case with all ON3P skis? No problems really, but it scares me a little about future durability, especially because these look like they are built to last.
Overall, I felt these skis did exactly what I wanted them to do. Like most here, I like to ski the widest ski within reason for given conditions. I think the Vicik is right in that sweet spot for big "as the east can offer" mountain skiing. They smashed through everything they needed to thanks to the early rise, they hooked up like a dream on groomed natural snow, and they worked just fine compared to other skis in their class on blue ice. For me, where they really shined was versitility. I never expected I would be able to find a ski that was a fat gs ski crusher on hardpack that was also nimble in tight trees. That's a lot to ask of a ski given that they were pretty much polar opposite environments. Needless to say, I was blown away with my first couple turns in the woods. The light weight of this ski and early rise make it super easy and much smearier than most other skis in this class I have tried.
Dust on Crust:
The skis crushed it on Saturday. The snow was soft for a cold east coast day and there was an inch or two of fresh coming down throughout the day. I don't know what to say really, other than they performed exactly as I would have wanted them too. Stable and powerful but nimble and smooth.
This was my big concern. I have basically purchased all of the 95+ waisted skis I own based on their strong hard snow performance. The Vicik I was less sure would handle those conditions well, but it did. On Saturday the groomers were groomed natural snow, like groomers out west, as compared to skied off ice with some dusty crap like you get on too many weekend days in the east. I couldn't have asked for a better ski for this. They hooked up easily and wanted to make a nice turn shape which was actually smaller than I expected (not too small, not a bad thing) from a ski with a radius of 26, as compared to some GS boards I have been on. I loved the tails, as they allowed me to make almost any sized gs/super g turn I wanted.
Shorter turns were an adventure, especially at first. I figured them out eventually, but needed to be more centered than I normally would to execute a short turn. Perhaps a detune in the front would help? Not bad though. Prophets and Mantras are easier and much more natural for me, but that's to be expected I think.
On ice these really held there own. Not great, but good enough, and much better than many other skis in their class. (The Mantra is considerably better, but because it sucks at everything but hard pack, I don't consider that a fair comparison) They did not give way underfoot, didn't chatter around hopelessly, and generally held it together.
One thing that weired me out a bit was trying to throw them sideways after going balls out, which is sometimes necessary too often. I was able to find a speed limit on these on really hard conditions, but generally they handled maching very well. However, because of the light weight of the skis I felt like they weren't there the same way when I had to slow down unexpectedly. Not really a bad thing or anything to write home about, more a funny quirky-type result of light weight but stiff carbon skis vs. metal skis. It's not like anyone buys skis for their ability to stop
This is where I was really happy. I honestly don't love trees, but if you want fresh in the east you don't have a choice. I have found the Prophets to be the best tree ski for me so far, but these were just as good if not better. They pivoted on a dime and were so light and nimble relative to their size and stiffness. I assume this is the magic of carbon over metal.
I did take probably the worst fall I have ever taken in the trees Saturday. For those of you scoring at home it was on the Toll Road at Stowe on the way to get some lunch. I went through a little shot in the woods between switchbacks. It looked good from the top, and my buddy said it looked good from the bottom, other than the drainage ditch he failed to mention. I went down a steeper section moving pretty good straight into the ditch, double ejection, face plant into neck snapping single tomahawk. Who know that kind of gnar was possible on the Toll Road, it has to be some kind of record? My friends said it was grossest fall they had ever seen, the way my neck snapped as I cartwheeled. Feeling pretty lucky to walk away with a black eye, bloody nose and cut face. Oh, and the skis were 100%. I would have bene crushed if I had f*cked them up the first day.
In summary, while I might be better off with something like a Wrenegade for everyday west coast skiing, the Vicik is exactly what I want. Although it might not be the ideal ski for an icy east coast day, I wouldn't hesitant to take these out and ski anything, anywhere on any day. The only other skis that has provided this confidence for me was the Prophet 100, but I much prefer the longer turning radius and stiffness of the Vicik.
Oh, and length was just right. Perfect. I was looking for something that skied longer than my 186 prophets and shorter than the massive 195 M'Ships.
I will keep my thoughts coming as I try them more, and in different conditions. Right now, I couldn't be happier with my purchase. I can't lie, I was hestitant to go the boutique route for plenty of reasons. I know people get psyched to get behind a company like ON3P on sites like TGR, sometimes because they are awesome and sometimes because of group think, the desire to have something different or unique, or because they have a "relationship" with the company. I can say as someone with zero hook up or connection to these guys, that the skis kick ass.
Last edited by Smails; 01-31-2011 at 02:17 PM."You don't want to run into me on the tram dock. I went to jail. I have an inclinometer, and a friend of a friend who's a lawyer. Why do you have to be such a hater? I was just trying to post some stoke." The Suit
"I demoed the Davenport 2 weeks ago, I really liked them a lot... the blue sidewalls and tip really looked great with my pants. I also tried the '11 MX98, they didn't look as good with my outfit. If you have blue pants or maybe some Lange race boots I recommend you check them out."
01-30-2011, 09:10 PM #72
So I still wonder how we arrived at -8 or whatever number of centimeters back of the center line?
01-31-2011, 10:45 AM #73aka SkierX on NS
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Pittsford, VT
In your opinion, did you find that Viciks quicker edge to edge than the Prophet 100s? Also, how do they compare length-wise? Did the Vicik ski shorter than the Prophet 100s? Ice performance in direct comparison to the Prophets?
My biggest question probably stems from the fact that I used to LOVE my Prophet 100s, until I got the chance to ski next years Nordica Patron, and found myself on a ski that was somewhere around 115mm I think underfoot, but was much faster edge to edge and held an edge on ice far better than the Prophet 100s (both skis had a fresh edge tune at the time). Bottom-line, the Patron took my skiing to another level beyond the Prophets. If the Vicik can do the same, I'm sold on the Viciks.
Thanks for the info!
01-31-2011, 11:24 AM #74"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
01-31-2011, 11:37 AM #75aka SkierX on NS
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Pittsford, VT
The Prophet measures out with a running length of 155cm vs the Vicik at 147cm, so that's where my confusion is. Wouldn't the shorter running length of the Vicik make it in effect ski shorter and more agile in a tighter east coast tree situation?