Thread: Review: Praxis Concept 187

btt
.
.
.

I got the chance to try spindrift's Concepts up at Stevens Pass the other day, just took them for a quick test drive. I haven't had a lot of chance to ski a lot of skis like this, skis that are experimenting with different sidecut and camber profiles. My current fat skis (which I was on that day so I could compare them back to back) are Dynastar Huge Troubles, a fairly conventional flat camber fat ski.

My first half of a run on them was mostly soft groomers with a little soft snow in between trails, it was basically just a run back to the lift. My initial impression is that they were very loose feeling compared to my HT's, just a totally different feel on my feet. Not necessarily bad, but something I'd need to get used to a little. The next run I took them into a mix of soft, cut-up, partially tracked out, boot deep snow. It wasn't pristine untouched by any means, but still soft and forgiving, the same snow I'd been enjoying so far on my HT's. After the first couple of turns, I was pretty blown away. These things are crazy nimble, at least compared to my HT's. They'd just come right around with very little input, super easy to ski in the 3D snow. I also had them in some very, very small, just starting to form, soft bumps where it had been skied out a little more. There, they felt just as nimble and easy to ski. Back on the groomer, I started to get a better feel for how they do on firmer snow. I didn't push them hard at all, I'm not all that demanding of my skis on groomers, but they held an edge very nicely on the soft groomers and definitely had a smaller effective turn radius than my HT's, so they felt a little more lively.

They didn't seem to punch through the chop quite as well as my HT's do, but that's one thing those skis do so well so that was kinda to be expected.

All in all, a very fun ski. I enjoyed them much more than I anticipated. I'd be interested in trying some more skis in this genre to compare, but I think when I go to replace my HT's I'm going to go for something more along the lines of these. They were just so easy to ski, and fun.

I demo'd these and skied Squaw on this incredible storm day on April 7th:

ME: 6'2"....190 lbs.....almost 48 years old, very solid strong skier, ski fast, no switch or park skiing
CONDITIONS: powder, cut up powder, soft groomers, dust covered icy steeps, soft and icy bumps

SUMMARY: I dig these skis. I will buy a pair.


PROS:
Sick in the pow, effortless float and no hooking
Sick on the steeps, straightline or pivot turns on a spine are a breeze
Can drive the ski yet it still floats
Smears albeit not like the pure Praxis Powder
The tail is an incredible anchor for power and holding
Great for short turns, soft bumps and long turns
Very stable at speed such as the straight line runout at the bottom of the Fingers (Icefall)
It feels different than any other ski I've been on (not bad or good but idiosyncratic)
Very confidence inspiring


CONS:
On groomers it feels like it doesn't want to come all the way around at the end of a turn. Not a big deal because off piste it excells and I only ski groomers to return to the lifts or parking lot

Very confidence inspiring indeed. Incredible on windbuff. solid tail if you backseat a landing (unlike the pow). Rides much like a backcountry IMO. Didn't have any deep pow to test in.

hmmmm...

Anyone got any weights? Specifically on the 177.

I don't know the weight but the 187 with Marker Jesters with plastic demo plates felt quite light. Noticeably so.

I picked mine up from the factory in Incline Village yesterday afternoon. I think he has only one pair left; their is a pair of the 'older' ones at Start Haus.

Jim S,
Thanks for the review. Did you get the original camber profile on the Concepts or the new wavy (for lack of a better description) camber? I've seen some pictures of the new camber on the Praxis websites but have not seen any reviews on how they perform.

Freakin good prices on their website as well.

I got the new one with the two areas of camber or whatever....my eyes glaze over with this tech stuff the same way they do when I read about MRI K-space and physics. But it is indeed the new one that I demo'd and purchased.

FYI, I skied them mounted on the line last week and that's where I will put my bindings.

Its been a few months since I posted my initial review. These are without a doubt my favorite skis ever. I've put dozens of days on them (both moldings). Of the skis I have used they are the only ski I'd be truly content to have to live with as a "one ski quiver". I'm totally happy to use them on a groomer day. A total win for mixed condition days. I'm often even taking them out on days I'd usually use a Powder, Protest, Pontoon, etc.

Regarding the new molding (and following up on a note from Fat Yeti asking about it...), here are some pics. It is much more subtle than the protos in this thread Given the subtlety of the camber profile and my poor photog skills, it is pretty hard to capture what is going on. But hopefully this will get the idea across (brakes are retracted w/ skis stacked evenly on top of one another):










(contrasted with the pics I posted of the more conventional original molding here )

The more I use them, the more I like them. Way looser/pivoty than a conventional ski. But it'll carve handily. And move between the two readily. The new molding makes it just that much more so.

It skis well right away - but it might take a few days to really get a handle on what it can do. It wants you to use that bump within the sidecut with both toe and heel. I love them - you can optionally drift the apex or turn transition in really cool ways. Even times when you look like you are just "drifting" downhill the ski will do cool things in terms of letting you direct it - much like a full reverse ski - that a normal ski will not. The drifting thing can feel almost weightless, but not out of control slidey - and then you can just flick the edge & off you go...

I'm pretty sure that if Keith had anything resembling a marketing budget that there'd be at least as much buzz about these as the RP112 (which,oddly, I have not skied yet). Considering current pricing and the fact that the FACEBOOK code will knock some more off, I'm pretty stunned that there are any left.

Oh yeah - mounted on the line.

Spindrift,

Do they really have that little of tip rocker? I think I like everything I'm reading except for the minimal amount of rocker. You weren't wishing for a wee bit more rocker on deep powder days?

I skied them on a deep day.
The floated like Jesus (or me) on water.
I purchased then two days later.

Thanks JimS,

I really appreciate everyone's reviews, but unfortunately for me (from what I can tell), all reviewers are 200lbs or heavier. I'm 5'11 and 170 lbs. Real curious if anyone out there is similar to my size and had any issues with the 187's. The shorter skis just do not interest me if I want these as a 1 ski quiver, even on the deep days.

Any small guys out there?

I'm 190 lbs nakked , 3" taller than you..and probably a lot older.
Yesterday I was a t Squaw with three ski buddies: I thought I was skiing with fetuses.

I had the same fear about the smaller rocker.

After taking a big risk on the purchase, and mounting them up with Hammerheads, I took these boards out 4 days in a row this week, in increasing depth up to 40"+.

I compared them directly to my buddy's Megawatt and found that the Concept puts me more "in the snow", but I never had a moment where the tip dove. My buddy tookem for a few spins and said the same thing.

This is my favorite ski ever. Its stiffness offers a beautiful bouncy feeling in the deep with significant pop to propel me into the next turn. Stable at speed, able to slash a turn at a moment's notice, the Concept is an all-mountain ripping machine.

here's my full review over on ttips:
http://telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1066795

*edit to add: I weigh 175 lbs, without gear. Mounted tele with Hammerhead and ski Ener-G 4 buckle boot. See my ttips link for details on my skiing style and other preferred skis etc.

I'm skiing the Concpt (1st gen. with classical camber) now since a year, and I have to say that -after taking a long time of not being able to finally decide on them- I don't really like them.

Edit: Me (175cm, 85kg) loving old Völkl Katanas (187), Praxis Powderboards (195) or similar

They ski fantastically in most conditions. Groomers like a fat GS ski, tracked pow like a contest weapon, hooky, crusty snow nearly like a full reverse, everything nearly without a speed limit and yet very manoeuvrable and isntantly turnable in tight corners.
Yet, in soft snow they don't work for me. They drive too much in the snow. Being a skier that likes to drive with quite some pressure on the ski's front, they have the tendency to instant tip dives and hooking up with the tip down below. This becomes especially tricky in snow conditions, where you have some fresh pow on soft, rather wet base. I completely lost my confidence at mid to high speeds when being on this ski. Instant tomahawking might occur any time. Although the ski and the concept behind it really work well in most conditions, this performance kills all the pro arguments for me personally.
I think, that the tip is way too stiff, with not enough taper and too pronounced and too early starting camber. Additionally, I feel, that the reverse zone could've been more pronounced.

Does anyone have the comparison between the 1st gen Concept and one with the new molding? I would be really curious to know, how the 2-zone camber changes the game. Especially in respect to this "driving in the snow" and the hookiness of the tip/tendency to tip dive.

Where are you mounted? I have strong feeling this is one of those skis that demands to be skied more centered (sort of like the powder board).

If you ski off the middle of the ski (the bulge) its pretty amazing.

That said, I too had a tomahawk double eject my first day on them too..but I attribute this to our super crazy punchy snowpack, not the skis)

Sorry, forgot to mention. Mounted at the line (101.5cm from the tip) with Jester Demos. (Which is actually only at 56% of the area -so rather forward for a pow ski)
I also tried to move them back +2 to ~103.5 but it didn't make much of a difference. There's not much more space to go back w/o redrilling, and I'm not sure that the shape of the ski will work as well, if they're too much back. (Although the centre of the bulge is mid-sole, not as a sweet spot generally would be at BOF)

My position on the ski on hardback or groomers feels also spot on. I'm staying nicely centred and can dose shin/forward pressure nicely. It's in soft and especially wetter/heavier snow, that I experience it. I normally love to drive skis with some forward pressure, but with the concept, I have to actively lift the toes/nose all the time. That results often in some kind of backseat position. Something completely opposite to how I experienced the powder boards. Those I can drive aggressively with nose pressure and (since the tip redesign) still have no chance to get into tip dives or similar.
I was hoping to find a ski to replace my old Katanas (which I ski similar), that behaves a little more like the powder boards. It seems, it didn't work out with the Concept for me.
That's why I would like the tip design slightly different.

Sorry, I forgot to post this review of my 177cm Concepts for Eastern tree noodling...

Includes a few side-by-side photo comparisons to a pair of DPS Wailer 112RPs (same relative length)....
These skis have ended up as a pair that always goes in the car to wherever I'm going...the more I ski them, the more I like them. Can't wait to try some of Keith's new inventions this season, like the MVP and the VRIDE.. I think the new Le Petite is also worth a look. These Concepts should have a long lifespan, based on the beating they took this season and still kept going and going...

Review:
http://www.exoticskis.com/Forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=253

http://www.blistergearreview.com/gea...praxis-concept

This has been my go-to ski for our current spring conditions with morning bulletproof, afternoon corn, and remnants of chalk in January.