Thread: 4frnt Deadbolt 15 vs Marker Duke on 4frnt Renegade?

I have been a teleskier for many years. The two last seasons I have been skiing both tele and alpine. I have always been skiing the dukes, because of the touring option. I'm getting the new Renegade from 4frnt this season. I am wondering if the difference between Marker Duke and a dedicated alpine binding such as the Deadbolt, is so big, that I should consider mounting Deadbolt on this skis? Will it be that noticeable? I have never skied with alpine bindings.

What do you think?

Eirik

I have Dukes on my Megawatts and Mojo 15's (pretty much identical to the Deadbolts AFAIK) on a pair of 186 S6's. I ski in-bounds and tour about equally. I don't do short tours out of bounds though. When I ride lifts, I ride lifts. When I tour, I skin from the car.

I prefer the feel of the Mojos over the Dukes for sure. They just seem more bomber to me. I also feel like the Mojos have alittle more of an aggressive stance to them, where the Dukes feel just a little flatter.

In general, I hate touring on the Dukes, but I have Dynafit rigs for full on touring duties. That said, when I do tour on them, they do the job, just not nearly as well as Dynafits (thanks captain obvious ).

I'd say if you really think you are going to tour on the Renegades, go with the Dukes. If you have other setups for touring though, I'd go with the Deadbolts.

Either way, you are going to have a sick setup. The Renegades look money.

Go with the Deadbolts. I have Dukes on my EHPs but rarely tour with them because of rocker. Very little skin/snow contact makes these skis a slog to skin in. The skis are unreal, they just don't tour great. So unless these would be your only skis to tour with (which it doesn't sound like they will be) keep them inbounds and lighten the package up with Deadbolts.

Thanks for the reply. I think I will tour sometimes on the Renegades, but maybe it will ok with the trekkers for those days? I have some other skies with Dukes, that I can use on longer touring days. Have been skinning many peaks in Norway that is about 1500-1600 metres high from ocean level on Dukes, and think that is Ok. Affraid of trying Dynafits, cause I know they are so much lighter. Hehe.

I just can't make up my mind. I really want to try alpine bindings, because of it should be better skiing with and want to get "everything out of this skis". But is it a waste? Or can the trekkers do the job? I am in pretty good shape.

Apologize my bad English, I'm from Norway as you might have figured by now.

Sounds like Dukes might be the way to go for you. I'd certainly go that way, even for just the odd tour, over the trekkers. They do ski really well, and are bomber, just in my opinion not quite aws good as the Deadbolts (or any other good alpine clamp) will.

Beware that if your looking for binding delta, the deadbolt is at 0. You'd want to shim to get that feel. I think all other versions of tyrolias have forward delta. I can't really tell a difference honestly, but i'm adaptable

On my race skis I actually shimmed the toes to get closer to a 0 ramp angle, creating sort of a "gas pedal" effect. By lifting the toe, pressure on the front of the boots engages the tips earlier than with a lower toe. That being said, this is probably not a good thing in powder.

Yeah, I read the delta thread but still don't know why its bad in powder. It seems like a 0 ramp angle would just give you a more balanced stance (read upright). Better for rockered skis that are more center mounted. The tgr powers-that-be think differently, i could be an idiot.

The ramp angle are the same on dukes and the deadbolt? The only difference is that you will be higher above the skis on dukes?

I'm getting an old pair of dukes mounted on some ehp's as we speak. I plan to use them 95% inbound and also have a dedicated touring setup. But I like options. the ehp's are currently mounted w/ deadbolts as well but I have to get them remounted to fit a bigger boot. I had the dukes, not being used, so i figured why not. Even if I only want or need to skin w/ them once a year, i'll be glad i've got the option.

my $0.02...

What about big drops? Will the dukes be as strong as the deadbolts?

14m big? or 50m big?

I think I get the point. You have to go biiiiiiiiig to justify mounting deadbolts instead of dukes regarding droping. What about the difference in height above the skis?

Another Tromsø-skier here..

I've been skiing EHPs since 2007, first seasons with deadbolts (old Vist-type) and last year with dukes. My personal preference is definitively alpine binders. Not because they are stronger, but the skis felt a lot better, especially the smearing feeling in crud and wind-affected snow (typical local conditions for Northern Norway) with alpine binders. I guess everything works in pow. Can't really put my finger on why dukes don't do it for me, but it may be the stack height. Really didn't like it much (and previous touring binders where fritchis..) and also you don't get that good, nice feeling when clicking in..

On another pair of mine (wailer 105) I went from dukes to dynafit, and I felt they improved considerably in both skinning and downhill mode. I guess the ultimate reason for dukes is "best slackcountry compromise". There isn't really any slackcountry around here (unless you're traveling to southern parts or the Alps or consider kattfjord slackcounty). And even though you can tour on dukes for 1500m and more climbs, why would you? Dynafits will take you there easier and more comfortable, and will for most people be more than enough for the descent. You don't drop 50m cliffs in Lyngen alps unless you're Seth and have a private chopper rescuing you out in case of bad luck..

Anyhow, there's a ton of reasons for choosing one or another setup and I guess everyone has to figure out what works best for them.

I'm waiting for Renegades myself and will mount with Sollyfits (ft12+sth16). Stoked!

Nice to hear from someone who knows where I'm skiing. I've been living in Tromsø the past 4-5 years, but have recently moved to Narvik. I see I have not updated my profile. I have decided to go for the Deadbolts. I have other set-ups for touring and I really want to try and see what a alpine binding can offer. And the lift-based skiing is of course much better here than in Tromsø. I look forward to that feeling! And I think that the bindings will make me ski harder, because I will feel more secure and trust them more.

I suppose the dynafits will be enough, but I tour with dukes because I want to be able to ski wherever I want. I don't want to think about if the bindings will brake when I see a nice drop. And there are really not many that climb faster than me even if I tour with dukes. Speaking of my regular ski buds.

Sounds like a nice setup! Would be nice to hear from you, when you've tested your setup.

You wont be disappointed. With Narvik being your home mountain alpine bindings is definitively the way to go. Trekkers or hiking is more than enough for the shorter trips to Mørkholla and Tredjetoppen, and if you have other skis for longer skinning trips, you should be all set. The issue about skinning with trekkers (for me at least) is steep, hardpack traverses. In pow conditions you get a much more stable skin track and trekkers will perform better (just send someone else up front..). Anyhow, why would you bring your pow skis out on a hardpack, icey day?

Yeah, looking forward to try the renegade+sollyfit setup. Still waiting though.. Sollyfits shipping Monday, Renegades a bit more uncertain, though I was told mid/late Nov back in the beginning of the month.

been skiing EHPs with dynafits all season and pretty stoked on them...

looking for a bigger ski/binding setup for next year... was thinking renegades with dukes but alpine bindings makes a lot of sense too as i ski off the sled mostly and would have the touring setup... any updates on how your setups worked for u this season?

Originally Posted by simon@nshore

looking for a bigger ski/binding setup for next year... was thinking renegades with dukes but alpine bindings makes a lot of sense too as i ski off the sled mostly and would have the touring setup... any updates on how your setups worked for u this season?

Just spent a season on the Renegades with sollyfits (916s + ft12s) which was perfect IMO. After two seasons using dukes, I decided I didnt like them. Personally I thought the duke sucked skiing inbounds compared to my sollys and were heavy and awkward touring. I also never felt totally secure when it came to their reliability. If you have the money for two bindings + the plate it's the way to go, best of both worlds.