Thread: Serious Question: Jobs

What would you do?

Monetary tools are becoming less and less effective (and even more so since the fed funds rate is so low and money supply is high with little velocity).

No one really wants to encourage the Chinese to up their bonds purchasing rate.

We are likely out of fiscal options. Tax receipts are down and the House will supposedly block raising the ceiling. No one seems to want to actually cut anything, just talk about it. Cutting programs also further cuts velocity of money.


So what would you do if you had the puppet strings?

Originally Posted by gonehuckin

So what would you do if you had the puppet strings?

Get rid of the democrats in Washington and repeal Obamacare. It is the uncertainty created by their agenda(both proposed and already turned into law) that is preventing job creation.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

12-28-2008

That being said, what are we in for? The answer depends entirely on Obama and Congress. If they raise taxes and increase spending(like Roosevelt did) then we are in for a long slow grind before things get better. If they let the failing companies fail, cut back on spending, and don't raise taxes(or at the very least raise them only minimally) then this will be a bump in the road.

Unlike during the Great Depression, there is plenty of money out there, people are just unwilling to spend/loan it due to the uncertainty.

Flash forward a year and a half...

July 15, 2010


Companies pile up cash but remain hesitant to add jobs

Nonfinancial companies are sitting on $1.8 trillion in cash, roughly one-quarter more than at the beginning of the recession.

If corporations are sitting on so much money, why aren't they hiring more workers?

The answer to that question has become a political flash point between the White House and big business groups such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which held a jobs summit Wednesday and accused the Obama administration of dumping onerous regulations on businesses. That has created an environment of "uncertainty," which is causing firms to hold back on hiring as the unemployment rate has hovered near 10 percent, the Chamber said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...071405960.html

This is common sense, not rocket science.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Get rid of the democrats in Washington and repeal Obamacare. It is the uncertainty created by their agenda(both proposed and already turned into law) that is preventing job creation.

Flash forward a year and a half...

This is common sense, not rocket science.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

12-28-2008

That being said, what are we in for? The answer depends entirely on Obama and Congress. If they raise taxes and increase spending(like Roosevelt did) then we are in for a long slow grind before things get better. If they let the failing companies fail, cut back on spending, and don't raise taxes(or at the very least raise them only minimally) then this will be a bump in the road.

Unlike during the Great Depression, there is plenty of money out there, people are just unwilling to spend/loan it due to the uncertainty.

Except he didn't raise taxes. The stimulus was designed to get that plenty of money moving. Obamacare hasn't taken any effect yet.

Originally Posted by gonehuckin

Except he didn't raise taxes. The stimulus was designed to get that plenty of money moving. Obamacare hasn't taken any effect yet.

Aren't you the one who is always lecturing me about my lack of formal education and knowledge when it comes to economic matters? And then you say something like this?

At Verizon, Tax Charge Trims Profit
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: April 22, 2010


Verizon Communications, the telecommunications company, said Thursday that its earnings declined 75 percent in the first quarter, brought down in large part by the one-time tax effect of the health care overhaul bill.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/te...23verizon.html

Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- An all-but-overlooked provision of the health reform law is threatening to swamp U.S. businesses with a flood of new tax paperwork.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/05/smal...re_tax_change/

Health Care Reform: 13 Tax Changes on the Way

The new health care reform law is chock-full of new taxes and tax increases that will affect many individuals and businesses, but it will be years before most of these hikes take a bite out of your -- or your company’s -- wallet.

http://www.kiplinger.com/businessres...n-the-way.html

And this^^^isn't even considering the effects on business of the dems efforts to impose some kind of carbon tax.

EPA carbon ruling creates an even bigger ‘uncertainty tax’ for business

http://blogs.reuters.com/james-petho...-for-business/

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Aren't you the one who is always lecturing me about my lack of formal education and knowledge when it comes to economic matters? And then you say something like this?

And this^^^isn't even considering the effects on business of the dems efforts to impose some kind of carbon tax.

Verizon "34 cents per share, for reduced tax benefits related to retiree health care;" Neither their press release nor that Times article demonstrated how the healthcare bill had any effect. Only that they lost a tax benefit for retirees.

And the other two articles you quoted are relating to a change in tax law that wont take effect until 2012.

Carbon tax of any kind hasn't even sniffed passing.


Again, the current administration hasn't raised taxes on anyone.

So now that your fantasy bubble is burst.

You have the puppet strings. You are the President in a meeting with the Fed Chairman. You need to create jobs. What do you do?

Originally Posted by gonehuckin

You have the puppet strings. You are the President in a meeting with the Fed Chairman. You need to create jobs. What do you do?

Simplify the tax code.
Put a five year moratorium any any new regulations.
Veto any and all legislation passed by Congress for two years.

I can't believe people this retarded are allowed to vote. This is what's wrong with America. Behold!

Originally Posted by Sirshredalot

I can't believe people this retarded are allowed to vote. This is what's wrong with America. Behold!

Care to elaborate douchbag.

Originally Posted by skiballs

Care to elaborate douchbag.

He doesn't need to, you just did.

The only "uncertainty" out there is that of Karl Rove's making. It trickles down to the Rubi's by way of the Krauthammer's you see. All that is left is for the Skiballs' to pick fights...

"Uncertainty" is code for "my corp is going to be called to the carpet and I sure as hell am not going to be the one to pay up, so let's pass the burden on to our middle-class workforce" so yes, in that sense, the uncertainty is real.

edit: here's another WTF? for you guys: why is the concept of "personal responsibility" never applied to large corps? You champion it as a principle of the founding fathers, then ignore the very essence when it comes time for Verizon to ante up for its employees?!?!? Like, WTF?

Originally Posted by gonehuckin

Verizon "34 cents per share, for reduced tax benefits related to retiree health care;" Neither their press release nor that Times article demonstrated how the healthcare bill had any effect. Only that they lost a tax benefit for retirees.

It was meant as a reference to something that I would expect someone with your educational credentials to be aware of. It wasn't meant to educate you on the subject matter.

Changes in accounting rules made after the Enron incident require corporations to apply charges to their books as soon as new tax legislation become law, not when the charges are realized. That means that even though the laws might not take effect until 2012 or 2014, as soon as the measures become law, corporations take the hit.

So yes, Obama care did hit businesses with new taxes.

And the other two articles you quoted are relating to a change in tax law that wont take effect until 2012.

See above comments.

Carbon tax of any kind hasn't even sniffed passing.

Again, I'm a little surprised that someone with your credentials would be unaware of the considerations that affect something as fundamental as the hiring decisions of businesses.

If the people in power have a stated goal of passing legislation that would negatively affect a businesses bottom line, that business is going to be unable to make long term plans until the details of that legislation are known. Without the ability to make long term plans, any reasonably competent executive is going to be hesitant to expand. So they are sitting on their cash.

Again, the current administration hasn't raised taxes on anyone.

So now that your fantasy bubble is burst.

You have the puppet strings. You are the President in a meeting with the Fed Chairman. You need to create jobs. What do you do?

Resign.

Good Lord you're being wilfully obtuse again.

The question was easy: What needs to be done to create jobs? Clearly businesses having cash reserves doesn't mean they will hire workers. The "uncertainty" of a Democrat in power didn't prevent the halcyon days of the 90's, and we still ended up in a huge recession despite Bush's tax cuts.

I would love to know how the fuck the Republican leadership, using their new bully pulpit, proposes to balance the budget and create jobs out of thin air. We forget that when the Republicans had both Congress and the Presidency (2002-2006) that shit hit the fan for all who aren't millionaires. Maybe MRW and Rubicon should buy the beer next time, because it seems to me that those who are crying loudest are suffering the least...

...and selling a lie.

Originally Posted by jfost

He doesn't need to, you just did.

All that is left is for the Skiballs' to pick fights...

Seems to me I actually made some concrete suggestions.
Will your dumb ass parrots the same talking points.
Here's an idea, what would you do genius.

Companies are OTing their FT employees and hiring PT employees because they aren't sure how long they'll need their employees or if they are going to have to provide healthcare for any new FT employees.

Originally Posted by Summit

Companies are OTing their FT employees and hiring PT employees because they aren't sure how long they'll need their employees or if they are going to have to provide healthcare for any new FT employees.

some call it corporate greed, others call it "fiscal responsibility"

po-tay-to/po-tah-to!

edit: phew, that wasn't so easy...

Originally Posted by skiballs

Seems to me I actually made some concrete suggestions.
Will your dumb ass parrots the same talking points.
Here's an idea, what would you do genius.

Excelent - especially the "simplify the tax code" part.

Steve Forbes ran on a flat tax ticket - his own party ate him for lunch. Why?

No more hiding income, no more bullshit shadow puppet games where you can "claim" to be paying the highest income bracket but actually that's only on probably $.50 on every dollar you really earn.

If everyone in the country - business and individual - above the poverty level paid a flat 15% income tax to the fed we would likely not have a deficit.

No Mortgage Interest deduction
No Expenses
No losses, etc.

You/Your company earned $XXXX last year. Pay $XXX to the Federal Government.

Edit: He proposed 15% (I think) not 10%

Originally Posted by skiballs

Seems to me I actually made some concrete suggestions.
Will your dumb ass parrots the same talking points.
Here's an idea, what would you do genius.

it's gunius, retart.

You are hard to read. Not so much in the sense of difficult to understand, but more literal, as in it is HARD to read your writing.

Don't know where else to go here?!?

edit: those aren't talking points - I made them up myself! Thanks, I guess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

Oh yeah - no more subsidies, no more credits, nothing. You earned $200k you on $30k every April 15th. Period.

Originally Posted by Tippster

Oh yeah - no more subsidies, no more credits, nothing. You earned $200k you on $30k every April 15th. Period.

Beats the hell out of the shell game we're all playing now.

Originally Posted by jfost

it's gunius, retart.

You are hard to read. Not so much in the sense of difficult to understand, but more literal, as in it is HARD to read your writing.

Don't know where else to go here?!?

edit: those aren't talking points - I made them up myself! Thanks, I guess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

Dude, I thought the weed bill failed in cali.
I think I'm getting a contact high by posting in the same thread as you.

A massive fiscal stimulus from an infrastructure program:

1. End all Bush tax cuts and freeze spending. UK style austerity.

2. Natural Gas initiative: rebuild interstates and equip with nat gas fueling for all long haul trucks. Retrofit the trucks to nat gas with tax subsidies. (pickens plan)

3. refinance every mortgage in good standing to 4% with federal subsidy. (Gross plan)

It's a start..

The issue of taxation isn't the only issue keeping unemployment at ~9.6%.

It is what Conservatives would like to have you believe, though.

Everyone here needs to learn a bit about economics. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter. Neither can "create" jobs. American needs to get it's fiscal house in order, and that means pain And not the half assed pain we've gone through the last 2 years. Really pain. More job loses, a true housing bottom, and a drop in the stock market. After we get thru that rough patch, jobs will start being created. As it is now, QE2 is about to fuck us like we've never been fucked before, and it all as to do with the Fed, and nothing to do with Dems or Reps.

BUY Product made in America.!!!

Interesting interview. But when he proposed adding a 25% tariff to overseas goods I had to ask myself. Donald you fuckin greedy bastard. Why don't you just buy American materials and fix the issue
???

http://video.foxnews.com/#/v/4402436...ylist_id=87937

The US military has the know how and infrastructure to build and run Nuclear power plants.

How about the federal governments use the military and department of energy to fast track shit loads of nuclear power. (Federalize it)!!

Sell the power to public utilities on the open market. Cut way down on carbon footprint! Generate federal revenue to pay for other shit/

Create reliable CHEAP power for manufacturing infrastructure.

Simplifying the tax code is a great start...but if we want to encourage jobs, we need to stop treating passive income preferentially. 0% income tax for earned income under about $150K (I'm not married to this number). The only income tax should be on 'capital gains' and other passive income that does nothing but reward sitting on money and hoping someone else does actual productive work. Or perhaps a Henry George-style land tax.


The real problem, of course, is that we are still trying to service an unserviceable debt at the consumer, business, and government level. Like Japan, we've chosen bailouts and simply ignoring insolvency over letting any big banks actually go bankrupt...meaning that, like Japan, we will be spending decades trying to pay off their debts. Trying to achieve economic growth right now is like trying to swim while dragging an anchor behind you.

The only way to get out from under debt is to let debtors fail. Then the viable businesses and properties will be purchased at a viable price, allowing business to function without being held back by the need to service massive debts.

Of course, it's basically too late. The banks have already successfully shifted their $trillions of debt to the Fed, or to the US government (either directly or through FNMA/FHLMC). So there's no way to get out from under this without massive inflation or a government bond default. Sorry about that.