Thread: Serious question about "Obamacare"

Originally Posted by Rip'nStick

Ok I might have taken this one a little too far, cooperation is certainly the numero uno but caring for the sick an elderly who can no longer hunt and gather are hallmarks of civility and decency.

Yeah but back in those days people had the common decency to die before 50. If not, they had death panels that had them pushed out on ice floes or dropped into tar pits.

Originally Posted by JimmyCarter

Yeah but back in those days people had the common decency to die before 50. If not, they had death panels that had them pushed out on ice floes or dropped into tar pits.

Good point. This living to 90 stuff is really screwing stuff up.

Originally Posted by Rip'nStick

one of the biggest problems with costs of healthcare is because

Of government involvement. If a Dr is treating someone on Medicare who only pays a small portion of the price then the Dr will have to make up the difference by over charging others.

So now we are going to by threat of force make citizens give their money to private companies. Thats messed up and I guess a win for the insurance companies.


RNS do you work for a insurance company by chance?

How many times do I have to say that executives from Wellpoint/Anthem WROTE the HCR bill (at least parts) OF COURSE it is good for ins. companies...

edit: pretty sure I posted this before, this is a excerpt from an email from a guy in Indiana who did some digging into the HCR legislation as it was being formed...

First off, a note about the author....Liz Fowler. I did another google search of her today (Thursday Sept 17) and found where she was named the Chief advisor to Max Baucus. She has been in similar roles in politics for other Democrats, and the first 3 articles on Google reveal all of that, and her educational background and some jobs in the private sector. BUT, she fails to mention that she is the VP for Wellpoint.



Living in Indiana, about 50 miles south of the Anthem headquarters, I am all too familiar with many of the names of the Anthem/Wellpoint crew, and what they stand for. In fact, the one that "helped" write the parity bill here in Indiana is Mike Murphy, a republican, but was the Pres. of Anthem Blue Cross of Nevada for a long time. He is "buddies" with the Anthem crew, as we all saw during the hearings and who he chose to hang out with during the breaks, their lobbyist and their Medical Director.

This is why HCR is a turd, NOT because Obama is a Socalist, or a Marxist, or a Kenyan Black Muslim etc... If more Tea Partiers and/or Republicans actually focused on the issues (they can't because they have their hands in the corporate pockets too) there would be some dialogue. Too bad.

Originally Posted by jfost

How many times do I have to say that executives from Wellpoint/Anthem WROTE the HCR bill (at least parts) OF COURSE it is good for ins. companies...

edit: pretty sure I posted this before, this is a excerpt from an email from a guy in Indiana who did some digging into the HCR legislation as it was being formed...



This is why HCR is a turd, NOT because Obama is a Socalist, or a Marxist, or a Kenyan Black Muslim etc... If more Tea Partiers and/or Republicans actually focused on the issues (they can't because they have their hands in the corporate pockets too) there would be some dialogue. Too bad.

regulation in general almost always helps big corporations and hurts the little guy. big corps are the only ones who can afford to conform to increasing regulation, which they love because it takes competition away

Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs

EVERY single member of Congress enjoys having their "Obamacare" but somehow it's BAD if regular Americans get it?

They should put up or shut up. Let's see how many in Congress refuse their "socialized" healthcare plans.

Ex-fucking-zaclty !! I'll sign up for any plan Congress votes for themselves. "We the people of the people for the people".

The Obama administration announced today it will wait for a year (coincidentally until after the elections) before requiring religious organizations to comply with an ObamaCare mandate that they provide coverage for contraception
— including controversial drugs that can abort an early pregnancy.

This is an outrage. This all started with a decision by the Obama administration last summer listing the “preventive” services that must be covered by health plans under ObamaCare without any charge to patients. The list included contraception.

This is another assault on the Constitution and the First Amendment’s guarantee of religious liberty. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) called the federal regulation an “unprecedented threat to individual and institutional religious freedom.”

The ObamaCare regulation gives faith-based institutions, like Catholic universities and hospitals, the choice of violating the fundamental tenets of their faith by covering the federally mandated coverage in their employee health plans, or dropping health insurance for their employees — in which case they would be fined for violating the law’s employer mandate.

http://www.galen.org/newsletters/rel...-of-obamacare/

Their employees don't have to actually use the contraceptives or morning after pills you know.... it's not an outrage or an assault of religious freedom at all.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...rnment-control

".......According to the Administration, the two dollar app that takes your blood pressure should be regulated like an MRI machine.

(And does anyone doubt that one day in the not-too-distant future we’ll be able on these wondrous devices to self-MRI?)

And because your phone has on it the two dollar blood pressure app - the Obama FDA asserts that they can thusly regulate your entire phone. Because according to them that one app has turned your phone into a “medical device.”

Under the FDA’s expansive parameters, almost any device on which you do almost anything regarding your health - your smartphones, your tablets, your desktop and laptop computers - will be regulated.

Did you use your smartphone/tablet/computer camera or microphone to monitor something health-related? It just became an Obama FDA-regulated medical device.

Did you save your health care data on any smartphone/tablet/computer? That too is now regulated.

Did you send an email containing any health care information to your doctor? The device from which you sent said missive is too now regulated.

Think we’re exaggerating?

Here’s the Obama FDA’s long litany of “Mobile Medical Apps.” A virtually limitless expansion of regulatory authority over not just the:

List of functionalities to illustrate types of mobile medical apps.

But also the:

Mobile medical apps that transform or make the mobile platform into a regulated medical device by using attachments or sensors or similar medical device functions.

And the:

Mobile medical apps that allow the user to input patient-specific information and - using formulae or a processing algorithm - output a patient-specific result, diagnosis, or treatment recommendationthat is used in clinical practice or to assist in making clinical decisions.

In other words - almost any device on which you do almost anything regarding your health.

Still think we’re exaggerating?

Obama’s FDA is concurrently asserting that the adult stem cells in your body are a “drug” - and that therefore your body is now government regulatory property.

In another outrageous power-grab, FDA says your own stem cells are drugs—and stem cell therapy is interstate commerce because it affects the bottom line of FDA-approved drugs in other states!...

Remember when the Left’s battle cry was “Get Your Hands Off My Body?”

In the Age of Fluke, it is now “Let me get my hands on your wallet, so that others can cost-free get their hands on my body.”

The government has gone from protecting your life, liberty and property from others - to guaranteeing others access to your life, liberty and property.

The implication of the FDA’s interpretation of the law, if upheld by the court, would mean that all food, drugs, devices, and biologic or cosmetic products would be subject to FDA jurisdiction. The FDA is expanding its reach even to commerce within (a single) state....

Still think we’re exaggerating?

-----

The choice in November is yours.

You can be snow-blinded by a corrupt, Fluke-ish “War on Woman” - where free-from-cost birth control is allegedly the greatest freedom problem facing our nation.

Or you can with your untrammeled sight view the gi-normous usurpations of our freedom in which President Obama and his Democrat cohorts have serially engaged.

Perhaps most gi-normous of all being ObamaCare. Under which the government is doing what government always does - expanding boundlessly the parameters of its authoritarian control.

Up to and including over nearly every computer device we own - and the very stem cells our bodies contain.

Tell you what - I’ll co-opt the Left’s old mantra. I’ll pay for my birth control, and you Get Your Hands Off My Body - and my smartphones, tablets and computers.

As freedom trade-offs go, that’s a pretty good one.

...Still think we’re exaggerating?
Obama’s FDA is concurrently asserting that the adult stem cells in your body are a “drug” - and that therefore your body is now government regulatory property.
In another outrageous power-grab, FDA says your own stem cells are drugs—and stem cell therapy is interstate commerce because it affects the bottom line of FDA-approved drugs in other states!...

hide your kids, hide your wives!!!

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Their employees don't have to actually use the contraceptives or morning after pills you know.... it's not an outrage or an assault of religious freedom at all.

Cool. So they can force you to pay to build churches, and as long as they don't force you to actually use them, they're not infringing on your freedom from religion, right?

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

Cool. So they can force you to pay to build churches, and as long as they don't force you to actually use them, they're not infringing on your freedom from religion, right?

Ummm they do. It's called being tax-exempt while getting $2B in Government subsidies. So I do pay the Church to build more houses of worship and I do have the freedom not to go to them.

Your turn.

^ bruuuuuutal pwnag3.

Originally Posted by Tippster

Ummm they do. It's called being tax-exempt while getting $2B in Government subsidies. So I do pay the Church to build more houses of worship and I do have the freedom not to go to them.

Your turn.

it says a lot about you that you consider a tax break to be payment. specifically, it says that you believe that everything in this country belongs to the govt, that there is no such thing as private ownership. scary.

so for the record, are you saying that you believe that these "payments" DO NOT infringe on your freedom from religion?

Originally Posted by Tippster

Ummm they do. It's called being tax-exempt while getting $2B in Government subsidies. So I do pay the Church to build more houses of worship and I do have the freedom not to go to them.

Your turn.

Isn't Planned Parenthood tax exempt?

Anyway....No one cares that all your technology is now a regulated medical device?

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

it says a lot about you that you consider a tax break to be payment. ...

when you pedal backwards, the pedals might get loose...

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Isn't Planned Parenthood tax exempt?

do you have the freedom to not go there? The govt gives tax exempt status to things that are good for our society, like church and abortions.

Originally Posted by jfost

do you have the freedom to not go there? The govt gives tax exempt status to things that are good for our society, like church and abortions.

Abortions are good for society? SICK! They may be good for Big Brothers budget. - Not the same thing.

I have the freedom not to go to PP but Someone made the point that because churches are tax exempt, everyone is paying for them. (Sick logic)

By that logic, everyone is paying for Planned Parenthood abortions even without government subsidies to Planned Parenthood.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Abortions are good for society? SICK! They may be good for Big Brothers budget. - Not the same thing.

I have the freedom not to go to PP but Someone made the point that because churches are tax exempt, everyone is paying for them. (Sick logic)

By that logic, everyone is paying for Planned Parenthood abortions even without government subsidies to Planned Parenthood.

but the taxpayer dollars cannot be used for abortions!

also, the only people paying taxes are the top 51%, so it is really only the rich people funding churches, not everyone...

Originally Posted by jfost

but the taxpayer dollars cannot be used for abortions!

well its a good thing dollars arent fungible then

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

well its a good thing dollars arent fungible then

that's what she said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

also, doesn't this sort of illustrate the problem with laws and by extension, using the constitution as a tool to influence behavior?

I'm paying for churches if you're paying for abortions. Shit, a far larger chunk of my money is going to churches.

Wait, aren't you paying for the Sierra Club too?

Originally Posted by Tippster

I'm paying for churches if you're paying for abortions. Shit, a far larger chunk of my money is going to churches.

Wait, aren't you paying for the Sierra Club too?

We are paying for abortions because fungible money is being given to PP by the government. Money over and above the tax free money donated to PP by private citizens. You are not paying anything for churches because money donated to churches was not your money and never was.

Originally Posted by Tippster

I'm paying for churches if you're paying for abortions. Shit, a far larger chunk of my money is going to churches.

Wait, aren't you paying for the Sierra Club too?

don't forget needle exchanges, IIRC (R)'s are paying disproportionately for needle exchanges!

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

well its a good thing dollars arent fungible then

I didn't think you would get it. Is the government writing checks to churches like they are to Planned Parenthood?