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11-04-2010, 06:51 PM #76
11-04-2010, 10:29 PM #77Registered User
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
i have been in that situation, as well as dozens, probably hundreds of people i have known. pretty much all the people i have known i ski towns, for instance
as for people who have been dropped, i dont have a problem with getting rid of exclusions for preexisting conditions, but again, we are talking about a tiny fraction of people.
11-05-2010, 09:57 AM #78just a little more ground
- Join Date
- May 2006
The whole reason for the mandate is that removing the pre-existing conditions exclusions without a coverage mandate would bankrupt the insurance companies, since any rational consumer in that situation would not purchase insurance until the y got sick, defeating the cost-spreading fundamentals of insurance.
The US system pre-HCR was incoherent, where as you mentioned many people chose not to purchase insurance, and when they have large medical expenses either don't pay their bills (our local hospital had $27 million in uncompensated care last year, which paying customers end up covering) or fall back on Medicaid once they are poor enough. Those people are not refusing to participate in the health care system, they are just gaming the system for their own benefit, which is why the individual mandate is necessary.
11-05-2010, 11:14 AM #79
That is how I understand it. Basically it goes like this:
1. Insurance companies have the system dialed and are making record profits on ever increasing premiums. Many people chose to go uninsured because the cost for private (non-company) insurance is way to much. Others can't get insured at reasonable rate because of "pre-existing" conditions.
2. Healthcare prices going through the roof because uninsured people are drag on the system and everyone else has to foot the bill. As this is not an acceptable situation with healthcare costs soaring and a rapidly aging populous, something had to be done.
3 The obvious answer was to have everyone insured so that cost could be spread and a reasonable plan offered to those not in companies with their group buying power.
Why the outrage? Anyone? Those like DBT and Rubi yammering about it earlier?
Fed gvmt overreach to solve something that was obviously not getting fixed at a state level? What else would have been a way to address it? Let people go bankrupt on medical bills and have others pay for the associated costs when I have to have a routine, non-lifethreatening operation?
Sorry but it looks like something like this bill had to pass. Sounds like politics at the expense of Americans to me.Education must be the answer, we've tried ignorance and it doesn't work! Wait, nevermind, when you see a liberal using science to advance an idea...grab your wallet and your freedom and run.
11-05-2010, 11:43 AM #80Registered User
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
2)again, about 95% of the country was doing fine. they might not have been able to afford all the vacations/flatscreens/ipads they wanted, but why are they entitled to? so complete and total overhaul didnt "have to be done". everyone agrees something should be done about the 5% who need help, but that doesnt necessitate making a fundamental change to the country
3)if people couldnt afford it before, where does the money come from now, especially since it is being run by the most inefficient organization known to man?
the only argument you have is that health care is a right, which is certainly a matter of opinion. but even if you take that as a given, it doesnt support what was done
11-05-2010, 12:28 PM #81
11-05-2010, 12:50 PM #82
2) $40k is not enough income to be able to afford quality health insurance - especially with any health issues. Are there many that can pay yet do not? Of course...and to me that's another arguement for this reform and the mandate. 51 million uninsured and rising, costs doubling every 7 or 8 years and no need to overhaul?!!? Can I have some of what your smoking? Please?!
3) Nothing is really changing about who is 'running' healthcare...insurers and providers. The money is coming from increasing access to medicaid for really poor people and graded subsidies for those who would find it difficult to afford. Nice hyperbole.
I truly have no idea what you are talking about with your last sentence - the only arguement? Where'd that come from?
11-05-2010, 12:56 PM #83
Likewise, forcing me to buy a service from private industry, without offering a competing product from the gov't to keep the prices low, also is not right.
I can opt to not drive a motor vehicle, so I don't HAVE to have liability insurance if I don't want to. But you DO now have to buy some megacorp's for-profit insurance plan, and have to prove every tax season that you have done that, or they'll sick the IRS on you.
What this really begs for is single payer. Get rid of the IRS provisions and give me a valid gov't option, without targeting the competing industry offerings (remember all that republican conservatard logic of 'death panels'?), and let me choose what I want. I had it in the military, and it was awesome.Originally Posted by BSS
11-05-2010, 01:22 PM #84
Just checking in to see what candy came up with but I see Corky's addressed that one.
"most inefficient organization known to man" why are you so anti-American?
As to jumper bones, Obama just talked about repealing the 1099 stupidity but I bet they are wary because opening it up might lead to ridiculous other provisions. And wasn't there a govt option or is it just subsidized?Education must be the answer, we've tried ignorance and it doesn't work! Wait, nevermind, when you see a liberal using science to advance an idea...grab your wallet and your freedom and run.
11-05-2010, 01:32 PM #85
healthcare needs reformed.
Non-profit health insurance co-ops all use for-profit subconsultants. The owners of the sub-consultants run the "non-profit" health insurance and make a killing with no-bid/open contracts. The non-profit can claim it isn't turning a profit, costs a rising, and raise preimums. Meanwhile any profits that would be made are turned over to "consultants" running admin tasks.
Health insurance companies negotiate rates with hospitals that include non-compete clauses; forcing people w/o insurance or w/ a different insurance plan to pay an substantial amount of moenty above what the test/procedure costs.
Rick Scott, new Govoner of FLorida, was the CEO of Columbia/HCA. During his reign he oversaw massive fraud. Ultimately the company was hit with a record $1.7 billion Medicare fraud fine. Whos going to pay the fine?
11-05-2010, 05:31 PM #86
First, was the health-care bill really the result of arguments -- or was it an arbitrary compendium of mandates promulgated by one party with near-total control of Washington? It was rammed down our collective throat. Some argument!
Second, it just so happens the law is being litigated, whether the president likes it or not -- and clearly he does not. Nearly half the states are fighting it in court.
11-05-2010, 07:18 PM #87
11-05-2010, 09:14 PM #88
I think the above poster has been brainwashed by socialism...or is a happy citizen that pays taxes, skis his and bikes his ass off and the threat of collarbone destruction is enough for him to not go bigger than he is.
The scooter crowd thoughEducation must be the answer, we've tried ignorance and it doesn't work! Wait, nevermind, when you see a liberal using science to advance an idea...grab your wallet and your freedom and run.
11-05-2010, 09:26 PM #89
11-06-2010, 10:50 AM #90
11-06-2010, 10:58 AM #91
11-07-2010, 08:36 PM #92
We need a lot more honesty than we're getting from our elected officials, and it doesn't matter if someone is for or against such programs - the public is only being told the parts they want to hear.
11-07-2010, 10:41 PM #93
^ that's not new einstein...... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...
11-08-2010, 08:33 PM #94
So did I miss the explanation of why this "monstrosity" of a bill will cause "Armageddon"? Or is it a lot of hot air.
Oh and Rubicon, getting rid of pre-existing condition,even if legitimately applid, is welfare? While people that take poor care of themselves have themselves to blame, to let them go bankrupt and live in the streets crazy is not a civilized society. You know that. You say welfare like it is a bad word. Let me point out that it is "welfare" that allowed our race to band together, overcome our physical shortcomings, and become a dominant species on this planet, brother.
That being said one of the biggest problems with costs of healthcare is because if it is "free" then it is overused. Tragedy of the commons. Obviously there should be a hard look at what gets covered.
11-08-2010, 08:53 PM #95
Pre-existing condition non-coverage - Help me understand - You have a job with med insurance. You have paid for it (employer paid insurance instead of a raise, that's how it began in 1942 or so). You develop a medical condition. You get laid off or leave. Your screwed? That's welfare? That's OK?
11-08-2010, 10:42 PM #96(CNSNews.com) – The U.S. Food and Drug Administration estimates that it will take the food service industry 14 million additional hours each year to comply with a new regulation that mandates chain restaurants and vending machine operators label the products they sell with a calorie count in a place visible to the consumer.
Oh and Rubicon, getting rid of pre-existing condition,even if legitimately applid, is welfare? While people that take poor care of themselves have themselves to blame, to let them go bankrupt and live in the streets crazy is not a civilized society. You know that.
We have an agreement between the government and those it is governing. In it's current state HCR violates that agreement. If we want to change the agreement we can. But you and other supporters of HCR know a constitutional amendment would never pass. The reason it will not pass is because not enough of the people want it in it's current form. So instead of respecting the will of the people you are trying to impose it anyway.
There is no argument, moral or otherwise that will justify the tyranny of the majority, which is exactly what you are supporting.
You say welfare like it is a bad word.
Let me point out that it is "welfare" that allowed our race to band together, overcome our physical shortcomings, and become a dominant species on this planet, brother.
No, cooperation and trust allowed our species to band together and become the dominate species on this planet. When those we have chosen to rule us violate our trust by exceeding the authority given them by the people, they destroy the foundations of our society and open the door to tyranny.it's all young and fun and skiing and then one day you login and it's relationship advice, gomer glacier tours and geezers.
11-08-2010, 11:11 PM #97
Rubi likes to post late night so his inane explanations don't get shot down so quick
11-11-2010, 10:16 AM #98
EVERY single member of Congress enjoys having their "Obamacare" but somehow it's BAD if regular Americans get it?
They should put up or shut up. Let's see how many in Congress refuse their "socialized" healthcare plans.Leave No Turn Unstoned!
11-11-2010, 01:52 PM #99just a little more ground
- Join Date
- May 2006
I would be interested to see if you can find even one respected legal scholar that espouses that extreme opinion.
But I am sure that our current system, with its' checks and balances, has never delivered such a ridiculous legal opinion. If you believe so much in the Constitution, how can you disregard the opinions of the Supreme Court, which the Constitution explicitly authorizes to do Constitutional interpretation??
As usual, conservatives who claim to be "constitutionalists" pick and choose the parts of the Constitution they wish to observe (hypocrisy alert)..
I am guessing these are the parts you want to ignore,
"Section 1. The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office."
"ection 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States; between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects."
But in conservatie-land, an opinion delivered by Rubicon, counts more than an opinion delivered by the Supreme Court....
11-11-2010, 02:24 PM #100
Not having a solution to the problem that people may lose their jobs or try to switch and not be able to afford healthcare, leading to the number one cause of bankruptcy is negligent, and our system is currently that.
Not caring is being a cold hearted bastard…