Thread: Rossignol / Armada Patent Lawsuits

Im still waiting for this underpriced used market of unwanted TGR user goods. Where is the purge guys.

Dudes for other dudes? Seriously?

Originally Posted by Armada office

...
Our intention was to have a portion of proceeds contribute to a trust similar to “1% for the Planet” that benefits athletes who have passed or been injured.
...
We planned on announcing the launch of the organization in December around the new TST ski which is a tribute to Travis Steeger. We planned on dispersing proceeds to foundations/charities for Shane, Travis, and other athletes. We wanted to support our recovering friend, Riley Poor.
...
We wanted to work out a friendly agreement with companies we felt were infringing...

Sounds like a complete BS story to me: "I have a great idea where all ski companies should start giving 1% to injured athletes! I should spread the stoke and see if I can rally all the ski companies to join in!! Hmmm, wait a minute. On second thought, maybe it's better if I order a gun, wait YEARS for it to arrive in the mail, load it, and THEN start going door-to-door asking people to join in and donate. When they see me holding my gun, then they will be more stoked to donate!"

Nice try, Armada. If your original intention was indeed charity YEARS AGO AT THE START OF THE PATENT PROCESS, then you should have started the charity drive right away BEFORE your gun arrived in the mail. How many year's worth of potential VOLUNTARY donations has this new charity missed out on just because you waited for your gun to arrive in the mail? Your charity idea is good, but it's such BS for you to try to connect the patent with the charity at this point.

And I don't get it. What "portion of proceeds"? Did Armada mean Rossi gives 1% of funshape sales to charity and 99% to Armada? Or Rossi keeps 99% of their funshape sales? Or what?

My Final Thought: I always thought ski companies SHOULD file for patents, but then never use them for offense---just use them for defense against attacks. The "mutually assured destruction" model. Rossi has used their patent in the way I generally approve. Armada has used their patent in the way I disapprove.

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Originally Posted by dutch1

from ns:


this just in from Armada office:

Dear Family and Friends,
We regret that we have to send this note but feel it is necessary given much of the misinformation that is circulating. At this point you have probably heard that Rossignol is suing Armada in Utah.
Back in April, our EST patent was issued which was a milestone for our company recognizing years of hard work in research and development. While the patent was pending, many companies made claims about the origination and spoke negatively of us. Ours was the view that the facts would be revealed in the long run and that slinging mud would accomplish nothing.
We are proud of our innovation. We never suggested nor considered preventing others from utilizing the shape; we never thought about suing anyone. Our plans couldn’t have been further from trying to squeeze competitors.
Our intention was to have a portion of proceeds contribute to a trust similar to “1% for the Planet” that benefits athletes who have passed or been injured. Internally the development name of that trust has been “Dudes for Other Dudes” or “DFOD” for short. We recognize the contributions that Shane and other athletes have made which laid the ground-work for our innovation.
We planned on announcing the launch of the organization in December around the new TST ski which is a tribute to Travis Steeger. We planned on dispersing proceeds to foundations/charities for Shane, Travis, and other athletes. We wanted to support our recovering friend, Riley Poor. Now any such announcement will be viewed with skepticism and doubt. However, we remain committed to the vision.
Some facts to clear up any confusion:
1) Armada has not sued any company.
2) Rather than filing a lawsuit against infringing companies, a letter was sent to Rossignol and others that closed with “Armada is willing to discuss an amicable settlement of this matter…” We wanted to work out a friendly agreement with companies we felt were infringing.
3) We never intended to prevent others from utilizing our patented shape.
We are largely the same group of people who started the company in 2002. Our goals and vision haven’t changed. We love the sport of skiing and remain committed to contributing to it. We still don’t have a PR department and as such, the story will continue to be spun by others.
You know us, you know our values, and you know the truth. Please don’t be swayed by the misinformation which will surely continue. We will not partake in it.
We are here for you and are happy to address your questions and concerns directly.
Sincerely,
Erik and Hans

ACTUAL TEXT OF ARMADA CEASE AND DESIST LETTER SENT TO ONE SMALL SKI COMPANY

Personally identifiable information has been substituted in square brackets “[abcdefg]”

*** LETTER BEGINS ***

VIA CERTIFIED MAIL

Re: Infringing Skis
Our Reference: [reference number]

To Whom It May Concern:

Please be advised that this office represents, and is the intellectual property counsel for, Armada
Skis, Inc. of Costa Mesa, California. Armada is a designer, manufacturer, and distributor of
high-quality, innovative snow skis, technical ski outerwear, and other products. It has come to
our attention that you are currently selling products that infringe on the patent rights of Armada
(U.S. Patent No. 7,690,674). Sales of certain [ski company] models (including the [ski models listed here]) constitute patent infringement under U.S. law. As such, Armada requests that you immediately
cease and desist your unlawful sale of these models and any other skis that infringe Armada’s
patent.

Under federal law, and particularly 35 USC Section 27l, whoever, without authority, makes,
uses, sells, or imports any patented invention within or into the United States is an infringer. See,
for example, Transocean Offshore Deepwater Drilling, Inc. v. Maersk Contrs. USA, Inc., 2010
US App. LEXIS 17181 (Fed Cir. Aug. 18, 2010); Sensonics, Inc. v. Aerosonic Corp., 81 F.3d
1566, 1573 (Fed Cir. 1996) and SEB SA. v. Montgomery Ward & Co., 594 F.3d 1360, 1374
(Fed Cir. 2010). Armada holds patent rights that protect its products. Specifically, please be
advised that Armada is the owner of U.S. Patent No. 7,690,674. A copy of this patent is
enclosed for your review.

Federal statutes provide that a patent owner may obtain injunctive relief against infringers (35
U.S.C. Section 283) and may recover up to three times the amount of damages found adequate to
compensate for the infringement (35 U.S.C. Section 284). In addition, the prevailing party in a
patent infringement suit may be entitled to recover its attorneys fees from the other side (35
U.S.C. Section 285) and in some cases, the attorneys fees will exceed the amount of the
infringement damages.

We reiterate, [ski company], is selling skis (at least the [ski models]) that fall within the claims of
Armada’s U.S. Patent. Absent an arrangement with Armada, we must insist that [ski company]
immediately cease selling such skis or any others that fall within the patent. Please provide an accounting of all such skis sold to date, including the wholesale prices, models, sizes and dates sold. We require this information in order to assess damages that may be due to Armada.

Armada invests heavily in its research and development and protects that investment with patent procurement and enforcement. Armada is willing to discuss an amicable settlement of this matter if you respond promptly.

Please confirm by [date] that [ski company] will meet these demands,

Very truly yours,

[attorney]

Enclosure:
U.S. Patent No. 7,690,674
Cc Armada Skis, Inc.

jesus i hope these companies don't give into this strong arming bullshit. unbelievable, especially after they make some story up about giving that money to some bogus charity that is yet to exist. wow.

vanilla C&S letter

Originally Posted by Armada office

...We never suggested nor considered preventing others from utilizing the shape; we never thought about suing anyone. Our plans couldn’t have been further from trying to squeeze competitors...We never intended to prevent others from utilizing our patented shape.

If, by "We", Erik and Hans mean "Armada and its representatives", then those specific sentences quoted above are shown to be blatant lies by the specific sentences quoted below.

Originally Posted by ExoticSkis

ACTUAL TEXT OF ARMADA CEASE AND DESIST LETTER SENT TO ONE SMALL SKI COMPANY

...As such, Armada requests that you immediately cease and desist your unlawful sale of these models and any other skis that infringe Armada’s patent.

...Absent an arrangement with Armada, we must insist that [ski company] immediately cease selling such skis or any others that fall within the patent. Please provide an accounting of all such skis sold to date, including the wholesale prices, models, sizes and dates sold. We require this information in order to assess damages that may be due to Armada.

...Armada is willing to discuss an amicable settlement of this matter if you respond promptly.

Please confirm by [date] that [ski company] will meet these demands...

Vanilla or not, the words in this C&D letter show that some of the sentences in Armada's response way above are lies. Whatever, lies happen, they can be forgiven at some point.

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I can't talk about the ski industry from a product perspective. But from a general competitive market place perspective, something is up with the ski manufacturing market when you see goon strategies like this coming into play.

You can usually describe the end of a bubble, or the end of a big mismatch in supply and demand in either direction, by the emergence of crooked, desperate, dodgy, doubtful, left-field and generally fishy smelling plays by certain actors in the market. Usually these actors are new comers attracted by the vibrancy of the market activity (the hubris, in some instances). They are often somewhat distant from middle of the game. These dodgy plays do not typically come from long-term players that are very close to the bedrock of the market (The Fed is one exception!)

Not too sure how that describes Armada. But this is a very smelly move they are putting on. ??WHY??

Wasn't there a thread predicting large over supply of freeride skis, predicating a price crash and tough times?

You have to start asking why, then question that answer with why, and again, why. It usually leads somewhere useful.

So they want to move themselves closer to the middle of the market. Of all strategies, why this one?

so what company got the letter?????

“Dudes for Other Dudes”.... kinda sounds like a gay match.com. That being said this is another company to make it onto my list of companies I will never buy from.

Originally Posted by Hohes

You have to start asking why, then question that answer with why, and again, why. It usually leads somewhere useful.

Heh

It appears at some point in the past year or so Hans Smith went from being called President and CEO in interviews to just President and now there's Erik Snyder listed as CEO. Erik lists Harvard Business School, management consulting and financial services on his resume. Hans came from Oakley. Secondhand info has Armada's sales being anemic enough that almost any royalty income would be substantial

weak sauce, Armada.

2) Rather than filing a lawsuit against infringing companies, a letter was sent to Rossignol and others that closed with “Armada is willing to discuss an amicable settlement of this matter…” We wanted to work out a friendly agreement with companies we felt were infringing.

Before I even saw the above C&D letter I was about to say this was lawyer-speak for "own up or we sue." This is the first step before a lawsuit and in many places is legally necessary before filing.

Hans & Erik must really think their core market is dumb as nails.

HoHo has some interesting analysis here. What are they trying to achieve.. and what does this say about the industry?

If I were a betting man, I'd say this is going to sort out badly for Armada, and possibly worse for the industry as a whole, if some kind of precedent is set, in or out of court.

Originally Posted by whyturn

Let me know how that works out for you... Lame since designs require being original. Water skis, Altai, surfboards, way to many things prior IMO.

Funny you mention Altai skis since I was just at Dave Wagg's house and his were sitting by the front door. If anyone was going to sue it would be them and I would bet they don't even know what a lawyer is ;-)

Armada Sucks and should crack a book from time to time before they try to take down the big boys...put down the pipe for a moment!!!

So apparently Armada's president has been calling the people who are complaining about the company directly to answer their questions.
According to one of the kids on NS he basically said:
"I fucked up, what i did was a bad move. None of the athletes or other employees were involved in the decision to send the cease and desist order."

... seems like a time consuming way of dealing with things but at least they are owning up to their mistake.

Originally Posted by Adamantium

Nothing good can come from a single company owning the sole legal right to produce rockered and/or tapered skis.

ALL OF THIS!!!!

I tried thinking about what that could mean, and then...

Originally Posted by paige.

at least they are owning up to their mistake.

Remaining cautiously cynical.

People looking to gain dominance by any means usually only own up to their mistake when the plebs with the spending money say "fuck that!"

On the flip side, lets hope this is the end of it, which is better than where it was heading.

Calling individual people seems like a tedious round about way of going about it.

Originally Posted by paige.

So apparently Armada's president has been calling the people who are complaining about the company directly to answer their questions.
According to one of the kids on NS he basically said:
"I fucked up, what i did was a bad move. None of the athletes or other employees were involved in the decision to send the cease and desist order."

... seems like a time consuming way of dealing with things but at least they are owning up to their mistake.

So Hans is calling people to say they fucked up and Erik is meeting with the pitbull lawyers?

Poor stuff Armada

Armada is so upside down and backwards

There skis can suck my...



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WTF... is that what I think it is???

so armada sucks now? great news, that just means my jj's are safe from the packs of meth-smoking curly-headed fucks that roam Utah resorts stealing skis for a living.

Dude are those really your balls? if so you're a sick

Strong first post from Dodgy....