Thread: Rossignol / Armada Patent Lawsuits

Originally Posted by jgb@etree

Hrm....Recusing himself from doing full TGR analysis due to conflict of interest? The plot thickens...

Ominous- Dum Dum Dum!!!

Pretty fucking weak. I guess it's just business, but it seems like a real bitch move from Armada.

Originally Posted by Randonee_Urban

wait, if you were on ns to check this, does that make you an impressionable idiot too?

Both sites seem to be in agreement that Armada sucks for this and keep replying the same points. both sites keep talking about the other site's thread and how this will "blow" up. I don't get it. maybe TGR and NS.com members have the same level of intelligence on the matter, for better or worse.

When the thread first started it didn't seem like too many people were all that upset. Luckily that has changed.

Hooray! Lawsuits!

Winners = Lawyers.

Losers = Consumers. (That's us.)

Thanks, Armada, and Rossi too. We all needed to be paying more for your products.

As per the boycott list, in alphabetical order:

Armada
Grenade
Oakley
Salomon
Is 333 still on the list? Or did we accept his apology?

"Everybody was like, yapperin' n' whisperin' 'bout stuff, like yo, what you think T's goin' do."

Come, don't

This is disgusting. I've always viewed Armada as being more of an athlete's company. I used to have a pair of ARVs and really liked the company. Now I don't know what to think. It baffles me that a ski company would try to hurt another. It's like a flashback to the Scott vs. ON3P ordeal, however this could prove to be much more destructive to the ski industry.

Originally Posted by T-Holt

It's like a flashback to the Scott vs. ON3P ordeal, however this could prove to be much more destructive to the ski industry.

Because of the words Cease and Desist? Shit Scott's going to sue for using the name of skis! Its really not even close to the same thing. At least Scott USA had some basis since up until then there wasn't another ski on the market with word Scott in it. We need to send the court pictures of that Asian guy with animal skins on the full wood DPS's. His great granddaddy should get the settlement money, well after the lawyers take there 90%.

Is it just me or does the rossi patent drawings look like they were copied off a used napkin hung over at 8 a.m., either that or they are for mickey mouse...

From the DPS site:

"2005—Drake and Peter Turner meet in Utah. Instantly they launch into discussions of flex patterns, laminate structures, and the fire is rekindled for the perfect carbon fiber ski. Turner infamously tells Drake, "it will be no problem for us to build these carbon skis elsewhere." DPS is born, the vision to create the perfect ski using spaceage material continues, and the duo start designing an entirely new five-shape quiver of skis, including the iconic and groundbreaking Lotus 138 and Lotus 120. The Lotus 138 morphs the Tabla Rasa and Spatula concepts into the first Rockered ski with sidecut: a design that is copied by another brand within 1.5 years. The Lotus 120 shape becomes the iconic 120mm pintail design: a shape that practically every major and small manufacture now produces."

The armada patent shows a filing date of August 10, 2006.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that make the armada patent nullified?

Obviously, the courts will need more official documentation than just some words on a website, but I'm sure Stephan could scrounge something up.
I hope.

Doesn't the patent cover a ski like the CRJ? Weren't tanner and CR best friends? I somehow can't see armada going after their premier athlete's deceased best friends ski, but maybe. I mean they are retahdid and everything.

I gave this article its own thread, since it delves deeply into the details of each patent, and they are not at all what is being discussed here (for instance, no one has a patent on tip or tail rocker in general).

So, Rossi fired back. I guess they have the muscles. But who else got the Armada C&D letter? Can we expect some more action from them?

Also, I'd like to repost the link to the old Ski World patent from 1980 for a "Reverse camber ski" with "(..) hourglass shaped side camber":
http://www.google.com/patents?id=fmk...page&q&f=false

It makes me sick to read the Armada patent application. I have never bought any of their skis, and I never will. The RR/RC concept transcends the evolution of the sport and the contributions of visionaries who pushed the limit of ski riding and design.

from ns:


this just in from Armada office:

Dear Family and Friends,
We regret that we have to send this note but feel it is necessary given much of the misinformation that is circulating. At this point you have probably heard that Rossignol is suing Armada in Utah.
Back in April, our EST patent was issued which was a milestone for our company recognizing years of hard work in research and development. While the patent was pending, many companies made claims about the origination and spoke negatively of us. Ours was the view that the facts would be revealed in the long run and that slinging mud would accomplish nothing.
We are proud of our innovation. We never suggested nor considered preventing others from utilizing the shape; we never thought about suing anyone. Our plans couldn’t have been further from trying to squeeze competitors.
Our intention was to have a portion of proceeds contribute to a trust similar to “1% for the Planet” that benefits athletes who have passed or been injured. Internally the development name of that trust has been “Dudes for Other Dudes” or “DFOD” for short. We recognize the contributions that Shane and other athletes have made which laid the ground-work for our innovation.
We planned on announcing the launch of the organization in December around the new TST ski which is a tribute to Travis Steeger. We planned on dispersing proceeds to foundations/charities for Shane, Travis, and other athletes. We wanted to support our recovering friend, Riley Poor. Now any such announcement will be viewed with skepticism and doubt. However, we remain committed to the vision.
Some facts to clear up any confusion:
1) Armada has not sued any company.
2) Rather than filing a lawsuit against infringing companies, a letter was sent to Rossignol and others that closed with “Armada is willing to discuss an amicable settlement of this matter…” We wanted to work out a friendly agreement with companies we felt were infringing.
3) We never intended to prevent others from utilizing our patented shape.
We are largely the same group of people who started the company in 2002. Our goals and vision haven’t changed. We love the sport of skiing and remain committed to contributing to it. We still don’t have a PR department and as such, the story will continue to be spun by others.
You know us, you know our values, and you know the truth. Please don’t be swayed by the misinformation which will surely continue. We will not partake in it.
We are here for you and are happy to address your questions and concerns directly.
Sincerely,
Erik and Hans

^^^^ that is weak....

I can't think of a worse way to fund such a charitable organization than filing patents and collecting on them (or whatever they were planning)....

and writing a letter to rossignol telling them they are infringing..... sounds pretty unfriendly from the start, regardless how the letter ended.

Originally Posted by dutch1

from ns:


this just in from Armada office:

Dear Family and Friends,
We regret that we have to send this note but feel it is necessary given much of the misinformation that is circulating. At this point you have probably heard that Rossignol is suing Armada in Utah.
Back in April, our EST patent was issued which was a milestone for our company recognizing years of hard work in research and development. While the patent was pending, many companies made claims about the origination and spoke negatively of us. Ours was the view that the facts would be revealed in the long run and that slinging mud would accomplish nothing.
We are proud of our innovation. We never suggested nor considered preventing others from utilizing the shape; we never thought about suing anyone. Our plans couldn’t have been further from trying to squeeze competitors.
Our intention was to have a portion of proceeds contribute to a trust similar to “1% for the Planet” that benefits athletes who have passed or been injured. Internally the development name of that trust has been “Dudes for Other Dudes” or “DFOD” for short. We recognize the contributions that Shane and other athletes have made which laid the ground-work for our innovation.
We planned on announcing the launch of the organization in December around the new TST ski which is a tribute to Travis Steeger. We planned on dispersing proceeds to foundations/charities for Shane, Travis, and other athletes. We wanted to support our recovering friend, Riley Poor. Now any such announcement will be viewed with skepticism and doubt. However, we remain committed to the vision.
Some facts to clear up any confusion:
1) Armada has not sued any company.
2) Rather than filing a lawsuit against infringing companies, a letter was sent to Rossignol and others that closed with “Armada is willing to discuss an amicable settlement of this matter…” We wanted to work out a friendly agreement with companies we felt were infringing.
3) We never intended to prevent others from utilizing our patented shape.
We are largely the same group of people who started the company in 2002. Our goals and vision haven’t changed. We love the sport of skiing and remain committed to contributing to it. We still don’t have a PR department and as such, the story will continue to be spun by others.
You know us, you know our values, and you know the truth. Please don’t be swayed by the misinformation which will surely continue. We will not partake in it.
We are here for you and are happy to address your questions and concerns directly.
Sincerely,
Erik and Hans

So they aren't suing, but they are demanding Rossi pay up? And they throw in some bullshit about using some of Rossi's money to help injured athletes? Rob from the rich and pay to the skiers (after pocketing most of the "proceeds").

GREED!

That's some bizarre PR. A defacto tax on all funshapes subject to the patent to fund a charity for athletes?

We never intended to prevent others from utilizing our patented shape

so long as they pay us a big fat licensing fee

dudes for other dudes, my ass

Well, at least you have reputable companies like Volkl avoiding infringement, copy-catting and the like.

Other than their new Zealot ads of course.

Originally Posted by Big Steve

dudes for other dudes, my ass

Are they trying to corner the gay skier market?

nttawwt

Originally Posted by dutch1

Our intention was to have a portion of proceeds contribute to a trust similar to “1% for the Planet” that benefits athletes who have passed or been injured. Internally the development name of that trust has been “Dudes for Other Dudes” or “DFOD” for short.

We planned on announcing the launch of the organization in December around the new TST ski which is a tribute to Travis Steeger.

We planned on dispersing proceeds to foundations/charities for Shane, Travis, and other athletes.

We wanted to support our recovering friend, Riley Poor.

Now any such announcement will be viewed with skepticism and doubt. However, we remain committed to the vision.

That really sounds like it was made up very recently by a group of people who will shamelessly spin anything around to suit themselves when they are in a tight spot. And that is coming from someone who spent a decade in Investment Banking where the art was perfected by the most shameless of all greedy people.

"Give to charity, or else...!"

Dudes for Dudes? Oh come on, that one just writes its own jokes..

Someone please take that one a run with it and make a fake website.. the possibilities are endless!

Originally Posted by Hohes

That really sounds like it was made up very recently by a group of people who will shamelessly spin anything around to suit themselves when they are in a tight spot. And that is coming from someone who spent a decade in Investment Banking where the art was perfected by the most shameless of all greedy people.

Hohes nails it. That is probably the weakest attempt at retroactive justification I've ever seen. If they were truly intending that, they would have said so previous to this PR shitstorm. And, as Hugh pointed out, it makes no damn sense anyway.

In an industry with such low startup costs and so many competitors producing top-quality product, about all you have over your competition is your brand image. Armada has just given themselves a big fat black eye, instantly transitioning from a symbol of new-school underground rebellion to "even more soullessly corporate than Rossignol," who have suddenly turned into the good guys.

We hate Salamon as well now? I am having a hard time keeping up with whom we hate and who we love (we still love Hestra, Smith, Dynafit, and PM Gear, right?)

We hate Salomon?? You didn't know? Where The Fuck have you been? (it is legit, some of us are pretty unhappy with a product of theirs that lead serious injury, personal loss, and lies from Salomon)

The injury: [ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191256"]Salomon Quest Tech inserts failure thread - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]

The Salomon Quest Boot tech inserts: http://www.wildsnow.com/2888/salomon...tings-failure/

Wow. I missed that. I was even thinking of taking a look at saly touring boots given that I like the fit of the falcon. Guess not.